my new philosophy with kegging equipment

[gnef]

:smack:

I'm not quite sure of the constructive nature of your post.

 

[Hujo]

Ah! I wasn't clear. I carbonate my kegs before putting them in the walk-in, so once they are in there, they are ready to be tapped and are fully pressured. As I drink from the kegs though, the pressure in the kegs will drop, so I periodically go into the walk-in, and go around to all the kegs, and repressurize them one by one. That is why I only need a single ball lock and pin lock gas connector in the walk-in.

Also, I have two 50# CO2 tanks (along with five 20# tanks), one of which is used for the walk-in. It is right next to the coffin box, and chained to the side of the walk-in. I use a bulkhead at the coffin box to bring the CO2 line in. I will be converting all of those connectors to John Guest fittings, and also using the Bev Seal Ultra line as a CO2 line to replace my current PVC gas lines.

Thanks! How often do you have to repressurise?

 

[gnef]

It really depends. If I just put a new keg in, I’ll go in once every day or two to make sure it is getting up to the right final pressure.

Once the kegs are all stable, it then depends on how often I drink, and which beers I’m drinking from. I would save average once every 1-3 weeks. If I am going to have people over, I’ll go in the day before and repressurize everything just to make sure.

Now, with the 650ss faucets, I plan on overcarbonating slightly to 2.8 volumes, and then allowing the pressure to drop to around 2.3 volumes (or when I notice a difference in pouring speed or carbonation of poured beer). The new faucets will allow me to do this easily because I can control the flow dramatically. I may even be able to overcarb to 3.0 volumes with no discernable difference in pouring, but I don’t think I will go that extreme just yet. This will allow me to extend the time between repressurizing.

I will say that this method has helped me keep CO2 in my tanks and saved me money. I have been using a single 50# tank for serving for over 9 years now. I have another 50# tank I’ve been using for carbonation for about 5 years, and I have five 20# tanks as backups and for portable use with the jockey boxes. I’ve only lost one 20# tank 9 years ago to a slow leak, and ever since then, I’ve always shut off the gas. It doesn’t make sense to me when I see people post that they’ve lost two or more tanks in the recent past.

 

[Owly055]

I posted this in another forum, but I have received some questions about it here, so I decided to post the information.

I wanted to share the evolution of how I work with my kegging equipment.

I've always used flared connectors because I've always bought the cheapest kegs I could find, and I like being able to take apart my equipment.

I used to use worm-drive clamps, but those cut my fingers on a regular basis, and did not seal the gas lines very well. Most of my gas line is still 1/4 ID x 3/8 OD tubing, which is what the homebrew shops sell, and what I assume most of us use for our gas line.

Then I moved to oetiker clamps, which are by far superior to the worm drive clamps at sealing but are a huge pain when trying to remove - I still use oetiker clamps when I need a clamp though, and I still have bags of clamps because I always buy more than I need.

I always used 3/16 ID x 7/16 OD tubing for my beerline because that is what is sold everywhere and marketed for beerline, and it seems to have a pretty standard pressure drop that people use with their calculations.

I like to keep spares on hand for everything, which meant that for both types of tubing, I had at least 100 ft, in some cases 200 ft of spare tubing. I also had to keep those stainless barb nut fittings for new lines of tubing. I don't even know how many of those barb nut fittings I have at this point, well over 100 though.

I never liked having two different types of tubing to deal with, and I did not like having to use the barb nut fittings. I began looking at options that were available, mostly through US Plastics.

I found these acetal john guest fittings: http://www.usplastic...74538&catid=832 along with some that had 1/4 MPT with 3/8 tubing fittings, and I also found 3/16 ID x 3/8 OD poly tubing from US plastics that could fit and seal with the acetal fittings.

I know I've invested a lot in the older tubing and barb nut fittings so far, but I have been gradually using these new John Guest fittings along with the new tubing for the new beer lines I've been installing in the walk-in cooler, and so far for the past few months, I've had no leaks, and they work well.

In the long term, this will be much more convenient for me, as I am gradually going to transition to all one type of tubing and all John Guest fittings. This will actually reduce the number of connectors I have from before - I used to install the barb nut fittings on all tubing, even on pieces I wasn't using at the moment, or for spares. With these John Guest fittings, they only go on the quick disconnects, and I can adjust tubing or change it easier by popping it out, cutting it, or replacing it, then pushing it back in to seal.

The only leftover part is the check valve for the gas line. I use the polypropylene check valves from US Plastics, and for those I still plan on using oetiker clamps, but I don't see an affordable way around this. I looked into the 3/8'' John Guest check valves and they were too expensive for me to put on all my gas lines. It would've been awesome if they were cheaper, but they aren't, so they aren't a viable alternative for me.

I also could not find a long enough John Guest bulkhead to pass through the coffin box, but I may just need to look beyond US Plastics for that piece. I think I've found one, and it is on order.

That was extremely long-winded, but I wanted to share my experience and what I've learned so far from the past 6 years of kegging and working with an ever increasing number of kegs and the frustrations that go along with that - I am at over 100 kegs now, and if any of you have been following the walk-in cooler thread, I now have 14 faucets flowing. I also still have a chest freezer with kegs in it too, along with numerous CO2 tanks and regulators - all of which I intend on gradually transitioning over to these fittings and the new tubing.

Here is a follow up post as well with some pictures:

Here is one regulator that I've converted over:



Here is the manifold that I have retrofitted with new valves and the fittings





Here are what the disconnects look like - they are the standard flared disconnects with the John Guest fittings on them:




Right now I am doing a leak test on everything that I've retrofitted (two set of regulators, and the one manifold). I need to be careful to make sure I don't create new leaks. Depending on how well these two sets go, I may try to retrofit the regulator for the walk-in, along with the manifold. If I can retrofit everything and make it leak-free (right now it has a big leak), then I may feel comfortable leaving the gas on the kegs in the walk-in cooler. Plus with these fittings, it is relatively easy to add in a Tee, or put in another manifold.

Once I've leak tested the manifold itself, I will make the gas lines, and put in the check valves, then do another leak test with the disconnects. I try to do my tests over a 24 hour period to make sure there aren't any leaks, and I only like to do one segment at a time, so it takes me a while to do a leak test.

I have also just ordered another bulkhead, hopefully it will be long enough to go through the plywood side of the coffin box. I'd like to get both my CO2 as well as my beergas to go through the coffin box and into the walk-in cooler through the use of the push-to-connect fittings if possible.

I have to be careful of cost though - I have so many disconnects, regulators, and manifolds (plus three jockey boxes and two randalls), that to retrofit everything at once is pretty expensive, so I will be trying to do this gradually. The next order may only be for 25 pieces, and I may need more than double that still at this point. Plus as I change out the fittings, I will also need to buy more tubing to match these fittings, and I may need another 200-300 ft of line, along with more check valves.

Whew. So far it seems to be worth it for me though, and hopefully I can retrofit the rest of my equipment within half a year or so.

I've used these type fittings exclusively since the beginning..... along with the tubing they are designed for. They are wonderful! Having experience with Sharkbite fittings in plumbing which work with PEX, CPVC, and Copper, it's only natural that I looked for and found these.

H.W.

 

[gnef]

Yea, I wish I had known about them from the get go! That would have saved me a lot of time and frustration, and especially money! I have dozens upon dozens of swivel barbs that are just sitting in my toolbox now. I also have bought many bags of oetiker clamps, had many leaks due to the worm drive clamps which I also have dozens of now.

The only thing is that kuriyama didn't make bev seal ultra until fairly recently. I started brewing in 2005, and started kegging within a year of that. There really just wasn't much information at all about John Guest fittings for brewing purposes back then, and no one that I knew used any sort of non-pvc tubing, the best at the time seemed to be bev 200, and it was already pretty expensive back then.

This is why I try to tell as many brewers about these fittings and this beerline that I can, buy it once and be done. I have bought well over 1000 ft of tubing in the years I've been kegging, and I just recently threw out a few hundred feet of used tubing as I've been doing these upgrades.

I'll probably even try to put the bev seal ultra on the jockey boxes now. The only thing is that I think I'll have to coil the lines outside of the cooler because it won't bend easily enough to actually coil inside. But once I do that, I should never have to replace those lines again.

 

[m00ps]

I love those john guest fittings. I had to swap my keg tower with a DIY iron ipe one to make room for the johgn qguest connection in the back of the shank
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=542066

 

[gnef]

Nice build!

I am also thinking of making my own tap handles out of stainless hex rod, cutting it down and tapping it for tap handles. This current project takes precedence though, so I am just figuring out costs and tooling requirements. Hopefully I'll have some new pictures soon to post though!

 

[gnef]

Well, I just finished updating the last two lines. Now all 14 have Bev Seal Ultra 235, John Guest fittings for the disconnect and for the shank, and the 650ss faucets on the front. These are also on stainless shanks, but those aren’t new.

Here are a couple of pictures, one from each side:

The next project is to make stainless hex tap handles for the coffin box, and probably jockey boxes and direct draw keg setups once I purchase another two 650ss faucets for them. I need to complete the sale of the ventmatic and 425ss faucets. I will be buying a 12 ft hex bar of 303 stainless, have it cut to smaller lengths, drilling, and tapping it myself. It is an easier grade of stainless to work with, so I hope it works out well!

After that, the only items left to convert over to John Guest fittings will be my 5 pass jockey box, a dual body primary regulator, a secondary regulator, and a second manifold. I’ll need about another 30-40 or so of the ¼” FFL to 3/8” tube John Guest fittings for it all, including some more disconnects that don’t have the fittings on yet. If I have a spare $100 in the future, I’ll probably add another two setups to the coffin box, as I already have stainless shanks and spare John Guest fittings, and excess tubing on hand, which would bring up the total to 16 taps on the coffin box.

The only main disadvantage of this setup is that I need to explain to friends how to use the faucets, and to remind them to start slow, and then get faster, but that is a small price to pay in my mind. These are working quite well so far, and there is no plastic taint, which means I don’t have to throw away any beer now! This has been a long journey to get to this point, and I am glad that this tubing and these faucets were released, as this would not have been possible without either of them.

 

[gnef]

Well, I took some more photos:

 

[gnef]

I realized I haven't updated this thread in a while with the most recent iteration of things. I actually thought I would start with a picture of my electric brew system. I decided to use John Guest fittings for my water supply line to the filter, and from the filter to the HLT. I also used Bev Seal Ultra for the water line after the copper.

Here are a couple of pictures of how my serving setup is now:

The only real changes were that I milled my own tap handles from 3/4" stainless hex bar. I drilled the holes and then tapped them. These I used my drill press with, but later ones I bought a chuck for my lathe, and then used a center bit to start the hole and get things centered better.

I also added two glassware racks above to hold all my stemware. I secured it to the walk-in front wall, and then suspended the front of the rack with steel cables. I like the look, and it is better than my first mental prototype of a false shelf. The suspension allows for much more light through, and opens up the space a good amount.

I've also converted all my Jockey Boxes over to John Guest fittings and Bev Seal Ultra tubing as well:

After using the bev seal ultra and perlick 650ss faucets, I don't expect to ever go back to pvc tubing. In fact, if I do regular maintenance on the system, I don't expect to ever need to replace the tubing. I will say that some pours are a bit foamy, but I've come to peace with it, at least I'm not throwing it away, and I can drink it. It just isn't worth it for me to figure out how to chill the coffin box without bringing too much moisture into the walk-in (I've tried a couple times, and the AC froze up).

I have bought some braided thick walled pvc line to possibly use for my gas lines. I am using some of the bev seal ultra as gas line, and the rigidity does make it more difficult to handle. I haven't used the braided line yet though.

As a sidenote, I just swapped four 20# tanks, and CO2 is expensive now! I spent just over $100 for the swap. I also have two 50# tanks that will need to be swapped soon, and that will most likely run me around $100 as well for both those tanks.

 

[alexavery]

Wow. Total jealousy here. That looks great! It looks just like my setup. OK, albeit mine's on a much smaller scale.

I agree with you 100% on the tubing. I got the whole deal from Birdman Brewing - shanks, perlicks, and tubing. And you GOTTA go with the John Guest fittings with this stuff.

Congrats on the build. When can I come over to partake?

 

[jmill]

This is pretty amazing. Congrats on an awesome build. :rockin:

Now I really want to go look at buying a house again so I can make my own beer space. It's hard only having fridge space for 2 kegs at a time.

 

[gnef]

Wow. Total jealousy here. That looks great! It looks just like my setup. OK, albeit mine's on a much smaller scale.

I agree with you 100% on the tubing. I got the whole deal from Birdman Brewing - shanks, perlicks, and tubing. And you GOTTA go with the John Guest fittings with this stuff.

Congrats on the build. When can I come over to partake?

Thanks! This has been a long evolution to get here, and the advancements in technology for brewing have been great, and made some of this possible.

This is pretty amazing. Congrats on an awesome build. :rockin:

Now I really want to go look at buying a house again so I can make my own beer space. It's hard only having fridge space for 2 kegs at a time.

Thanks! Yea, having your own house makes things like this possible. My wife tells me that she wants to get a bigger house in the future... I keep telling her how difficult it would be to move, and if we were to move, what I would need in order to at least be on parity with what I have now. Haha. I have way too much stuff.

 

[treacheroustexan]

can i come over?

 

[gnef]

Haha. Anyone in the Atlanta area is welcome!

 

[jbadd99]

I may have to come see this for myself - I'm in Canton.


I'm using Bev-Seal 235 3/16" line for my setup myself.

If I read correctly, JG part # PI4512F4S is the correct connector for beer nut/tailpiece replacement for this line. Am I correct in this? Sometimes I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall trying to make sure all my connectors are sized properly.

Also, I noticed you have JG fittings on your pin lock connectors to the bev-seal line. Where did you run across those? I thought at 1/4", I may be able to find some of those at the local HD. I'm using ball lock, but I wouldn't think the threads are any different, assuming they're both MFL.

 

[jbadd99]

So, I found the answer to my questions after a little more research.

I purchased my tubing from Ritebrew - they have links to the connectors, but no JG part #. Makes it hard to price shop when you still have to run down the part numbers.

So, for Bev Seal Ultra 235 this is what I've come up with -

The beer nut assembly is:
PI451015FS Female Adapter BSPP - 5/16 x 5/8 BSPP

The ball lock connector is:
PM4508F4S 5/16" Tube OD x 1/4" FFL

Purchased four of each for now. Hopefully they work out.

 

[orangehero]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=405112

 

[gnef]

I may have to come see this for myself - I'm in Canton.


I'm using Bev-Seal 235 3/16" line for my setup myself.

If I read correctly, JG part # PI4512F4S is the correct connector for beer nut/tailpiece replacement for this line. Am I correct in this? Sometimes I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall trying to make sure all my connectors are sized properly.

Also, I noticed you have JG fittings on your pin lock connectors to the bev-seal line. Where did you run across those? I thought at 1/4", I may be able to find some of those at the local HD. I'm using ball lock, but I wouldn't think the threads are any different, assuming they're both MFL.

I'm glad you got it figured out!

I am really happy with the John Guest fittings, it makes life so much easier for me.

If you ever come by Tucker, let me know!

 

[jbadd99]

Orange, where were you yesterday? LOL.

Thank you for the link!

IIf you ever come by Tucker, let me know!

Next time I fill up on c02, I may just do that!

 

[gnef]

Well, I was thinking about some recent upgrades I've done lately and thought I'd put an update here as well. I have now converted all my gas line to John Guest.

I've finally added in check valves too. The most economical choice was to get 1/4" NPT to 1/4" MFL check valves through a friend who has a Foxx Equipment account and could get them for me for just over $2 a piece, so I bought 30. haha. I did have to change out some of my John Guest fittings though, and I needed to get more of the FFL to tubing fitting to thread onto the check valves.

I also built a cleaning manifold with just John Guest fittings. This will allow me to clean all my lines in two sittings, cleaning 7 taps at a time. What I will do is heat up a solution of Penetrate (basically a 2x concentration of BLC), use my chugger pump to push into one tap, inside the walk-in the disconnects will be taken off the tubing and the tubing for the seven taps will be connected to the John Guest fittings in the manifold that I made. The other 6 lines will be the output, and I'll have growler fillers in those spouts to drain back to the pot of cleaner to recirculate the cleaner. I haven't used this specific setup yet, but I've made something similar in the past that worked well with the PVC lines.

I've also started replacing my old gauges with new, higher accuracy, re-zero gauges. They are the Winters P9S gauges. I have a mix of 0-15, 0-30, and 0-60. I also have a Wika 0-60 test gauge that is accurate to .25% of span that I built an apparatus around, it lets me test other gauges that have 1/4" NPT, 3/8" OD tubing with the John Guest fitting, and a ball lock fitting as well. I'll be replacing all of my gauges with these, they just tend to be a bit more expensive, so I've been doing it gradually since I have a lot of gauges to replace.

Here is a pick of some of the gauge stuff:

Here are also some adapters that I use when brewing for my camlock fittings. I use compressed air and garden hose quick disconnects that I need to be able to connect together. I also made an adapter to go from a camlock female fitting to a john guest to be able to more easily connect the pump to tubing if I only need to clean one line.

I've also made some sanke adapters. I have one with ball lock fittings, but then I also have this one with John guest fittings:

I have started a Barleywine multi vessel solera using Sankey half barrels. I started it back in 2017, and used this to fill the sankey from the fermenter. I will build two more identical ones to be able to do my cascading transfers. The John Guest fittings make this really convenient, and I'll be using the bev seal ultra 235 to be my transfer tubing.

This is when I did the transfer:

When I want to sample, I use one of these:

This is the ball lock adapter on top of the sanke with ball lock connectors. It looks like this:

I think that is about all I have changed in my serving setup since I last updated this post. I am really happy with how things are progressing though. I am looking forward to the barleywine in 4+ years when all three vessels are filled, aging on oak, and I do the cascade fill each subsequent year. I may also be starting a sanke single vessel solera for a russian imperial stout within the next 5 years or so (I just kegged 14 gallons, so I should be good for a while).

I still really like the Perlick 650ss faucets and Bev Seal Ultra 235 tubing. I will say that the first pour is foamy, and I have come to peace with it since I'm not throwing any beer away due to plastic taint.

I did realize a problem specific to John guest fittings and braid reinforced pvc tubing for gas line. Because the seal is on the outside rather than the inside, if you use a high enough pressure, it can get CO2 between the plies and cause a failure of the tubing. I realized this recently when doing my high pressure force carbonation at room temp. I have since bought a roll of 3/16" ID x 3/8" kuriyama PVC tubing, but I am also looking into LLDPE tubing for this purpose (and actually, I can even use the spare bev seal ultra as gas tubing too, I just don't like its stiffness for gas tubing).

I've made more changes to my brewing side of things, but that is a bit more beyond the scope of this post.

I hope this can help anyone looking at designing their serving setup! Please let me know if you have any questions, it has taken me over a decade to get to this point, and it is bound to evolve even from here!