My Latest Project - Walk-in Cooler

[John Beere]

Lowes and Home Depot both sell thin 4x8 thin sheets of wall coverings that I think are made of plastic - looks like the same stuff used inside of chest freezers. I am considering using this with a textured finished for the walls. I initially thought I'd use that for the floor as well and then just put a heavy rubber mat, cut to size, on the floor. Don't know what its called specifically but it is a mat with a ton of holes drilled through it. I think Musthavbeer's idea of using EDPM (rubber roofing) for the floor surface might be a good one if I can find it. I'm going to investigate that this evening as well.

It is my understanding that a de-humidifier is really nothing more than the guts of an air conditioner. I talked with Mr. Malty (http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php) - he stated "The only downside is that you need to be a little careful at first that it doesn't ice up. Once you pull out the moisture, it is fine." This was my understanding as well - that the AC is going to be pulling moisture out when it runs.

 

[Brewpastor]

That all makes sense to me.

 

[Whake4]

you will probobly need a low ambient kit such as a head pressure control and a Suction Line acumulator to protect the compressor from getting liquid refrigerent back when its down at such a low temp. or you will prob freeze up the evap

 

[highwayman]

I am wondering if a set up like that would work during winter months when it gets cold. It looks really good at this point.:rockin:

 

[Exo]

But he lives in GA...south GA...

 

[Whake4]

It would prob work fine year round you just need to add a few components to make it work right or you will be buying a new window unit every couple of weeks. Those systems are not set up to run in such a low ambeint temp

 

[John Beere]

The AC may go down within weeks but I am willing to gamble it based on the success of others. Specifically Jamil Zainasheff who inspired this project (http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php). I have been in contact with him several times preparing for the project and he confirmed his unit is still going strong - for over 4 years now. He also confirmed that his unit runs in 30 minute spurts - maybe only twice a day to maintain the sub-40 temperature. I can only hope I am able to create something anywhere near that efficient.

My favorite quote:

"An A/C guy that lives down the street told me that it wouldn't last more than a week, running at 37F. He was certain of it and told me I was an idiot for wasting my money on it. Regan Dillon at www.morebeer.com told me it would be fine, which is why I tried it in the first place.

Well, about 4 years later, it still works perfectly. Thanks Regan! Bite me A/C guy!"

But just in case my unit does go down in flames - where could I find these components for my replacement unit? and can a regular Joe install them?

 

[John Beere]

Just to follow this up... it is my understanding that the AC is really only at risk of freezing up when there is a lot of moisture in the air. This will be an enclosed space that shouldn't have much moisture at all once its up and running. Mr. Malty brought up the same point which I posted earlier in post #41:

"I talked with Mr. Malty (http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php) - he stated "The only downside is that you need to be a little careful at first that it doesn't ice up. Once you pull out the moisture, it is fine." This was my understanding as well - that the AC is going to be pulling moisture out when it runs."

 

[Whale4]

I dont think that it wont work, just trying to save you some possible headachs down the road. And no the average home owner wouldnt be able to install or purchess these parts

 

[John Beere]

I dont think that it wont work, just trying to save you some possible headachs down the road. And no the average home owner wouldnt be able to install or purchess these parts

Please don't take my posts as contrary... I value all of your input. Like I said, I'm going to chance it as-is but am willing to gamble that - and the fact that I might be back here asking for more info on its replacement when it goes down in flames! Consider it an experiment (at my expense) for all the people on the board who have taken interest in my project.

Thanks much

 

[D*Bo]

How does the R rating work?
higher the number, better the insulating properties?

 

[Whale4]

No problem no offense takin. If it wernt for risk takers there wouldent be half of the great ideas out there in this hobby Im pulling for ya because Im thinking of going to the next step with this idea

 

[Whale4]

yes higher R= better insulating properties

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Lowes and Home Depot both sell thin 4x8 thin sheets of wall coverings that I think are made of plastic - looks like the same stuff used inside of chest freezers. I am considering using this with a textured finished for the walls. I initially thought I'd use that for the floor as well and then just put a heavy rubber mat, cut to size, on the floor. Don't know what its called specifically but it is a mat with a ton of holes drilled through it. I think Musthavbeer's idea of using EDPM (rubber roofing) for the floor surface might be a good one if I can find it. I'm going to investigate that this evening as well.

It is my understanding that a de-humidifier is really nothing more than the guts of an air conditioner. I talked with Mr. Malty (http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php) - he stated "The only downside is that you need to be a little careful at first that it doesn't ice up. Once you pull out the moisture, it is fine." This was my understanding as well - that the AC is going to be pulling moisture out when it runs.

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is called milkhouse board. Good stuff, but it's not cheap- something like $25-$35 for a 4x8 sheet.
Also, you mentioned that you were going to furr out the exterior walls to make more room for your insulation. That's a good idea, but since your cooler is going to have a change in ambient temperature on all sides, you might want to consider all of the walls as "exterior" and furr out all of them for added r-value. Just my .02 Cheers.

 

[John Beere]

Update on the AC: I test wired a new Ranco controller into the AC this evening. This was the step I was most worried about and, now that its done, I can't believe how easy it was... I was able to completely bypass the built-in controls on the first try. I will officially re-wire it tomorrow. The diagram at http://franklinbrew.org/members/sj/walkin.html is correct, even for my brand new AC.

Lowes didn't have but about 10 sheets of that Dow board so I bought a pallet of another called R-Max. Its 3/4" thick with an R value of R5. I plan on lining the walls 3 sheets thick.

 

[John Beere]

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is called milkhouse board. Good stuff, but it's not cheap- something like $25-$35 for a 4x8 sheet.
Also, you mentioned that you were going to furr out the exterior walls to make more room for your insulation. That's a good idea, but since your cooler is going to have a change in ambient temperature on all sides, you might want to consider all of the walls as "exterior" and furr out all of them for added r-value. Just my .02 Cheers.

Thanks. The cheapest I could find was around $11 per sheet. I'm still debating if I want to put that much into it...

Yeah, I've already furr'ed out the interior wall as well as the two exterior and plan on doing it to the fourth wall as soon as its built. Thanks for catching that though.

 

[uglygoat]

how much do you have tied up in materials cost, and do you have an estimated energy cost for a year of 37 degrees?

i want to turn my little celler into a cooler so i can start kegging and run the lines out to the bar, but i'm flinching at the energy costs, especially when i have to keep the girls warm in the winter upstairs.

 

[John Beere]

how much do you have tied up in materials cost, and do you have an estimated energy cost for a year of 37 degrees?

i want to turn my little celler into a cooler so i can start kegging and run the lines out to the bar, but i'm flinching at the energy costs, especially when i have to keep the girls warm in the winter upstairs.

I will list a full list of materials and costs when I'm closer to finished. At this point, I know I've bought extra materials that I am going to use for a fermenting cabinet, etc.

As far as estimated energy costs - I really don't know how to calculate them as I don't know the final R value. Mr Malty has some estimates for his cooler at http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php

"Question: About how often is it running in the summer to keep those temps?
Answer: It depends on how hot the day, but even on 110F days, it runs maybe 30 minutes total once or twice a day. I've figured out it costs me around $2 or $3 per month average across the year."

 

[John Beere]

Made some progress today... I totally re-wired the AC to completely remove the built-in controls as well as got it working off of only one plug. The diagram I linked to last night shows the need for a second plug and is what I tried last night. The only reason the ground is clipped is I cut it last night during my test.

I filled the vent in the AC with great stuff as shown here:

And I then covered the outside of the styrofoam with some extra Reflectix. It probably won't help anything but it gave me the warm-fuzzys.

After that, I framed out and installed the AC in the window, plugged up all the holes with great stuff, and lined it with Reflectix like the rest of the walls. I then wired up a new breaker in my breaker box, ran it under the house (absolutely horrible place), out the back of the house through 1" conduit, into the garage, and wired up four new plugs in the garage (only one in the cooler itself - been needing better power out there for some time). And finally, I put a couple of pieces of the foam board on the walls just to see how it was going to work. Turns out there is just no way I can compress the insulation behind the foam board all the way down to the 2x2 etensions I added. So I pushed the board as square as I could and nailed into place leaving about another 1.5" gap. The insulation is pretty much taking up all that room but the back of the foam board is lined in foil and it says dead spaces is OK.

Thats it for tonight... pooped

 

[Capa]

Wow. I'm extremely impressed/jealous...ha. The fantastic ideas on this site never ceases to amaze me.

 

[John Beere]

Made some progress today but also took a step back. I hadn't put the front of the AC back on and something fell into the fan while testing - shattering it into a million pieces. Damnit. I have no idea what it was as there is no way I was putting stuff in there. I'll find out when I take it all back apart...

Does anyone know where I can get a replacement blower fan for ACs?

OK, back to the build. I framed out the final wall and installed the door. The perspective in this first photo is a little hard to follow. It was taken from outside the utility room looking through the door. The wall for the cooler is on about a 30 degree angle.

Picture of the door frame:

Door frame from inside. Notice I've built out the scructure to better seal the door.

And finally, the ceiling after insulation. Once the walls are fully lined with foam board, I will line the ceiling from the inside with it as well.

 

[alemonkey]

You might try McMaster-Carr for the fan. They have replacement parts for all kinds of stuff.

 

[Brewiz]

Or try these guys http://www.foxparts.com/ , if they dodn't have it you wont find it.

 

[the_bird]

The insulation you have on the ceiling, if you haven't covered it up yet it looks like there are a few cracks between the bats. I'd do what I could to tighten that up, you don't want to have any crevices between the bats that air can go through. Doesn't have to be 100% perfect, but I would do what I could to make that as tight as possible. Ideal is that there is no place for the air to go.

Looks good, though. Count me among your fans!

 

[John Beere]

I called every parts place around and couldn't find a replacement blower wheel for less than $45 plus shipping and tax... Then I thought I'd try the parts store on sears.com. They had it for $15. Shipped for $22. More than fair it seems... definitely learned my lesson about running it with the cover off.

Bird, I'll get up there and fill in the gaps with some more insulation this evening... I am down to my last pack of insulation and need to make sure I have enough for the 4th wall first.

 

[TekelBira]

What do you plan for the door in terms of insulating it? Also, I am curious to know where all that air blown into the room by the AC unit is going to go? Once you cover the walls and probably tape to seal it, the room is going to be pretty air tight. It will be nice to have a "positive" pressure in the room to keep it clean but make sure you stand clear the door when you undo the door latch.:cross:
Congrats on taking up on a major project and good luck with the rest.

 

[olllllo]

What do you plan for the door in terms of insulating it? Also, I am curious to know where all that air blown into the room by the AC unit is going to go? Once you cover the walls and probably tape to seal it, the room is going to be pretty air tight. It will be nice to have a "positive" pressure in the room to keep it clean but make sure you stand clear the door when you undo the door latch.:cross:
Congrats on taking up on a major project and good luck with the rest.

I imagine that the AC is pulling in hot air from the room as well as putting in cold.

 

[John Beere]

What do you plan for the door in terms of insulating it? Also, I am curious to know where all that air blown into the room by the AC unit is going to go? Once you cover the walls and probably tape to seal it, the room is going to be pretty air tight. It will be nice to have a "positive" pressure in the room to keep it clean but make sure you stand clear the door when you undo the door latch.:cross:
Congrats on taking up on a major project and good luck with the rest.

I don't think that is going to be a problem with the AC as it is recirculating the air through it...

The door will be lined with four layers of R5 3/4" insulated foam with a 15 degree angle cut down the opening side for clearance.

 

[TekelBira]

Thanks. I'm sure you have already thought about it considering obviously you've given more than adequate time to plan and execute this project through, if I may suggest to make the door jam to match the door then. Basically, securing the wedges you cut to the matching door jam.

\______/ Door

\ / Door jam (there is more space between the door jams but forum software removes them apparently)


Have fun...

 

[Monster Mash]

I have all of the material to build a cold room. It was given to me from a "UBrew" type shop and included all of the fully insulated paneling, door & hardware. Even SWMBO was ready for me to build it but then I came across this.....

 

[John Beere]

I haven't had much time to work on the cooler this week but have made some progress. I was hoping by this point to be able to cool the area while I worked but no such luck since I shattered the AC's fan blade. Hopefully the replacement will be here this weekend. Anywho, I have all the framing done as well as the wall insulation wrapped up. Now its down to installing all the foam board.

Here is a photo of the cooler looking into the utility room. We'll put some trim around it to finish it off once everything else is complete. I'm hoping to make serious progress by this weekend and be ready to finish it up as soon as the replacement fan arrives.

 

[Grimsawyer]

Hey Monster Mash, what is that we are looking at? Is that a Store cooler? One you would find lots of soda pop in with the shelving taken out?

 

[John Beere]

The replacement fan came in today... was stressing about it as Sear's website didn't even show it shipped yet. It was harder to replace than expected but it's back together and working. I've got it officially mounted and one layer of insulation on all the walls. Starting to feel as if I'm on the downhill...

I will take more photos to post as progress is made.

 

[Grimsawyer]

GRATS!! :rockin: :rockin: :rockin:

 

[John Beere]

Got all the walls finished today. Now it is down to the ceiling, floor, and the door... should go pretty quick over the next few evenings. Still debating what wallboard to use to finish off the inside but will have that settled in the next few days. What I really want is $30 a sheet... and I need eight sheets - whew. Regardless of the wallboard, I am in hopes to start testing later this week.

Here are two photos from this evening. First is just the AC all put back together and working. Second is a shot of the door jam to show wall thickness (6").

 

[G. Cretin]

I can dig it very nice.
I hope thats not blood on the floor from a construction accident.

 

[John Beere]

I can dig it very nice.
I hope thats not blood on the floor from a construction accident.

Suprisingly, no accidents so far except stapling a 1/2" staple straight through my finger with a heavy-duty staple gun... heh. That's a mixture of rust stains and spray paint droplets on the floor.

I realized after I posted last night that the walls are actually around 1.5" thicker than I stated and showed in the photo as I did not take into account the thickness of the door itself...

 

[Born Brewing Co.]

Wow, a walk in cooler! Very cool. Just curious, do you keep so much beer on hand that a dedicated beer fridge is too small? It will be a great day when I have so much beer I need a walk in cooler at home. My wife will never let that happen...

 

[G. Cretin]

Nothing for the floor? I would be worried about the temp. being diffrent on the floor or loss of cold air due to convection.

 

[John Beere]

Born Brewing Co., we plan to use it for more than just beer... that's actually how I sold the idea to my wife. But I hope to start lagering my beer for several months - which could eventually take up a lot of room.


G. Cretin, the floor isn't finished yet - neither is the ceiling. Just posting photos to show progress. The floor will be layered with 4 sheets of 3/4" R5 foam board with plywood on top. Looking to finish it off with a layer of Linoleum...