My Ghetto Fabulous Electric HERMS Project

[diatonic]

I'm working on building an electric HERMS setup (inspired by The Pol), and am going to document it in this thread.

I'm only deviating from The Pol's setup a bit... I'm going to use a PID/SSR for heating the HLT to give me more flexibility in wattage of the HLT element. Also, I occasionally brew at friends houses, and want a rig I can fit in the back of my Ford Explorer, which will include GFCI protection on the rig itself. I will be able to plug in to a 20amp 120v circuit at a friends house and use a 1500w 120v element and should have enough power. When I'm at home I can put in a 2000w element if I want faster heating.

Here is my preliminary 'ghetto fabulous' wood cart design. 4' wide, 2' deep, 2' 6" tall. Conceived in Google Sketchup:

$10 worth of lumber, $2 worth of deck screws, and $6 for 2 rigid casters and about an hour of assembly time and my creation springs to life:

I'm using wood for now mainly because of budget constraints, and wanting to try things for a while before committing to a metal stand.

I'm going to put some plywood/masonite on the top and bottom for surfaces, and cut a hole for the element wiring in the HLT. I still need to purchase a HLT stir motor and paddle, a march pump, and I'm going to make the HLT coil. I've got pretty much everything else purchased. Will update this thread as I progress.

Thanks to all of the info from HBT members, and especially The Pol. It has been very helpful.

 

[donshizzles]

Looks cool!

Where did you get all the 2X4's for all that for $10???? I'm planning something similar but the cost of the wood was like 10 times that!!!

 

[diatonic]

Local lumber yard in Boise, ID. They sold me 3 14' 2x4s for $10, I had them cut it all to the lengths I needed (charged me $2.50 and I BSed with the guy while he did all the cuts). All of the 1' 9" segments he gave me for free cutting them from scraps he had.

I almost went to Home Depot to get the 2x4s, then remembered the lumber yard about a mile from my house and decided to try there first. Glad I did

 

[The Pol]

Dude, I have your grill... carry on.

Um, did YOU PM me about getting the HERMS software that I wrote for my system? If so, did I send it to you? I totally forget.

 

[diatonic]

I did PM you about that, but you didn't send it. I put my email address in the PM if you still have it... I didn't want to bug you about it until I'm ready to run a batch in it. If you could email it though, that would be sweet .

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, so sorry man... must have gotten side tracked. I am out on the road and the software is on my zip drive at home. I will email it when I get back! Sorry!

 

[diatonic]

Tonight I started building/wiring the mobile control panel. I'm putting all of the components in a $14.99 plastic Craftsman toolbox from Sears. Power will come in through a cord of 12/3 water resistant cable. I built a GFI outlet box to mount on the cart to plug this all in to. There will be 3 power pigtails going out the back. One will be 12/3 for the HLT element (120V 1500w or 2000w) then two 16/3 cords for pump & HLT stir motor which will be controlled by front panel switches. Each power cord runs through a strain preventing fitting. Progress so far:

 

[jcdillin]

Looking great, well done.

 

[The Pol]

Diatonic...

Your HERMS software is sent, let me know that you got it!!!

Pol

 

[diatonic]

Thanks Pol, I got it. I hope to have the wiring on the control box done tonight and the element mounted in the HLT. If I'm really lucky I'll actually heat some water. I made the element assembly late last week. I'm using the same thermocouple you used on your BK in my HLT. I'm going to mount it a few inches off the bottom in the HLT.

I'm using a 25A SSR froum Auber with a heatsink. I'm going to do the initial test with it all inside the box. My HLT element should only be pulling 12.5A... and the heatsink was for use over 10A... so I don't think it will get too warm in there. Luckily it is easy to open and check .

Wish me luck!

 

[The Pol]

Awesome, looking forward to the results of the test. My 40A SSR and 40A heat sink are handling 23A. During a 90 minute boil the heat sink gets warm to the touch, nothing more. Granted it is OUTside the box, but there isnt that much heat generated even at 23A.

Nice box... that is a pretty neat idea.

 

[diatonic]

Hey Pol, I'll be ordering my MLT stir motor & impeller tomorrow from McMaster Carr... I wanted to ask you if you had any regrets on the 100rpm motor. I read in another thread that you said it moves the water "just enough". I'm going to use the same impeller you're using, but was thinking maybe I should get the 125 or 150 rpm motor. There is a chance I might step up to using keggles to do 10 gallon batches in the future and would want to be able to use the same motor.

I got my control box completed last night. Tonight I should have the element and thermocouple mounted in the HLT and will be test heating water. Really excited.

 

[The Pol]

Go ahead with the 150RPM, it will be a good choice. The 100RPM is as slow as I would go. I get sufficient mixing, but 150RPM would get a better mix if you move up in the future.

Congrats!

 

[mnadamn]

I got my control box completed last night. Tonight I should have the element and thermocouple mounted in the HLT and will be test heating water. Really excited.

Please post pics! looking good so far!!

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Is 1500w enough for a HLT/HERMS heater?

 

[The Pol]

Is 1500w enough for a HLT/HERMS heater?

I am proof that it is...

 

[missing link]

Some will say it is not, but it is what I use and I am happy with it. It takes up to 2 hours to pre-heat my mash water. If I am in a hurry, I pre-heat on the propane burner and then add it to the mash tun.

I like being able to brew away from my house and keeping things 110v allows me the flexibility.

Linc

 

[jcdillin]

yup, just takes some extra time.

Same goes for me, I like the convenience of 120v

 

[The Pol]

In an enclosed 10 gallon cooler... it works pretty well.

 

[missing link]

I have thought about trying to use both heat exchangers inline to make heating the mash water faster. I have an extra hour to wait on the HLT while the mash sits. I haven't gotten that far yet though.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

So, in theory, a March 809 HS and a 2kw element can be ran on a 20A 115v circuit.

BARELY.

With about 3 amps, more or less, to play with. Not a big margin.

Hmm...

 

[diatonic]

Well, one of the reasons I put the controls in a big easy-to-access box is so that it can be changed relatively easily as I make changes. When I put in a 120v 2000w element I'll probably run the pump on a different circuit just in case. If I'm in a hurry I can rapidly heat 5 gallons of water in a separate pot with propane and dump it in to the HLT at 170F or so, then top up and heat with the element.

Will post some more pics tonight

 

[The Pol]

So, in theory, a March 809 HS and a 2kw element can be ran on a 20A 115v circuit.

BARELY.

With about 3 amps, more or less, to play with. Not a big margin.

Hmm...

Yes, which is why I have a 30A circuit and feed the pump and elements from separate outlets.

 

[diatonic]

Here's some updated control panel pics. I guess it's not "done", but it is ready to do some testing. I still need to:

1. Mount 20A dual pole switch on left side to operate with lid closed (cuts both hot and neutral legs to HLT heating element).
2. Install switch for PID power. Right now it powers up when plugged in.
3. Install panel mount disconnects for thermocouple (arriving tomorrow from Auber)
4. Modify 'Craftsman' logo to say 'Beer Craftsman'

Panel all lit up with switches on:

Back of panel. Each power pigtail is labeled, STIR, PUMP, & HLT:

Not so pretty inside, but it is roomier than it looks:

I'm off to go test my HLT for leaks with heating element and thermocouple installed. CHEERS!

 

[diatonic]

Here is the HLT with element and thermocouple installed:

Bottom of HLT:

Unfortunately, I messed up the perfect 1/4" hole I drilled for my thermocouple, and it's not sealing with the o-ring. A pretty severe leak actually. I'm going to go enjoy one last homebrew for the night and ponder how to solve this dilemma. The heating element is water tight - no drips from it. That's what I get for deviating from The Pol's plans.

 

[The Pol]

Okay, you get a leak free element, or a leaky thermocouple from deviating? Ha ha

Looks awesome, congrats, you will get the thermocouple figured out.

 

[missing link]

I use a 2000 watt element and a March pump on a 20 amp circuit and I use a 1500 watt element with my other pump on a 15 amp circuit. So far so good.

It would be nice to be able to use 1 extension cord to power everything but for now I am lucky enough to have both in my garage.

I think that at some point in the future, I am going to look at adding a 240v outlet in the garage and some bigger elements as well as possibly boil with electric.

I went down the road of trying to add the heating elements and temp probes directly to the cooler. I was never able to get all of the leaks fixed. Everytime I thought I had a leak free system, a new leak would develop as the water in it reached higher temps.

My cooler now drains into an external heat exchanger, I measure the temps after the HEX and pump the wort back on top. I am now leak free.

As I'm sure POL can attest, you are never going to be satisfied so you will just keep making changes to your system



Linc

 

[diatonic]

Well, I just placed an order with McMaster. Along with the stir motor and related parts I added 2 sizes of high temp silicone washers to try to seal this thing up. I will have a whole bunch of these left over if anyone could use some. I had to order a pack of 50. PM me if interested (I won't have them til next week though).

This is my first McMaster order... I think it is a homebrew milestone . Now I get to find out how fast stuff gets to Boise from their Los Angeles warehouse. I envy you guys that live close to their distribution centers.

 

[The Pol]

I will attest to the fact that the improvements are never complete. Never, ever.

BTW I have no leaks in my system. If a single drop falls during a brewing session, there is a major problem. I take great pride in my leak free system.

 

[diatonic]

Today I decided to install the panel connectors for my thermocouple, since I'm waiting on McMaster to move forward on anything with the HLT. The panel connectors installed quite nicely, and allows me to disconnect the thermocouple from the control box easily. After installing it, I thought I would check the temperature of ice water with it to see if it needs adjustment. I drilled a 1/4" hole in a styrofoam cup and mounted the thermocouple. Filled it with water and it leaked... but I noticed it was leaking from within the thermocouple. Bummer.

Leaking points highlighted in red:

I'm writing Auber to ask if I need a replacement, or if I can fix it. I could try to solder it, but don't know if I might mess it up.

Other than that, the panel connector installation went well, and works nicely.

 

[The Pol]

Yes, the center portion of that thermocouple is NOT water tight. Mine got a small fillet of JB Stik around it to seal it up nice and secure. Works excellent.

I beleive that I cover that in my build thread.

 

[diatonic]

Oh! That's right! I forgot that you had meantioned that in your build thread. I'm glad I did not send my email to Auber yet .

Thanks for the quick response. I'm not sure why I don't get email alerts when people reply to my thread, even though I subscribed. Something to troubleshoot another day.

Thanks man!

 

[The Pol]

It is a quick mod to make... the thermocouple is cheap and very accurate from my experience. Works really well!

 

[diatonic]

Already curing. Thanks again.

 

[The Pol]

Just make sure that the center is pretty well centered, there is a little slop in it... so that you can get the nut threaded on. No prob bro.

 

[diatonic]

I recieved this via PM, but can't reply because he's exceeded his generous 5 message limit (delete those sent ones dude!). I'm posting the response here, because it may be useful to someone else too...

Hey,

Where did you get that awesome looking plug-in panel socket that allows you to take the K-thermocouple out and plug it in agian?

I actually wrote [email protected] asking about using banana jacks or something, and they wrote me back explaining why that wouldn't work... then they said, "We are going to sale the penal mount K type jack and matching connector made by Omega. The price is $4.75 a pair (the same as omega). However, I can charge $2.5 for the shipping. If you want, please let me know. We have them in stock."

It ended up being $7.25 for the pair, shipped. He then sent me links to them at omega.com:
Male Connector
Miniature Panel Jack

They arrived to me cross-country in 2 days via regular mail.

 

[diatonic]

Turns out my big leak was just the internals of the thermocouple. After sealing the exterior with JB Stick it held 8 gallons of water without a single drop escaping. Sweet success.

Currently heating 8 gallons of water from 47F to 175F for a time test. I'm taking periodic time/temp log entries. Sweet!

 

[The Pol]

Congrats!

Glad to see the progress

 

[diatonic]

Well, it essentially raised 1º F per minute with 8 gallons in the HLT. Outside temperature was 37º F. I'm thinking the 1500W may stay in the HLT and never be swapped for a higher power element. I generally have plenty of time before I brew to allow it to reach the target temp, and if I'm brewing at a friend's house I can just pre-heat water in the BK using propane, then add it hot to the HLT. Hoping the McMaster order arrives Tuesday and I can get working on mounting the motor and impeller.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, I get 1F per minute with 10 gallons, 5 gallons will give me 2F per minute. With the software I have for the system it is easy to precisely plan volumes and times so that step mashing is even possible.