My Founders Brewing Co Story

[MisterTipsy]

Don't forget though, I didn't ask for the recipe...All I asked was where in the process they add the cashews...nothing more.

You asked for the most important part of the recipe and then you threw a hissy fit when they wouldn't give it to you. This is a classic case of false sense of entitlement.

Just because some breweries give details about their recipes doesn't mean everyone should. In fact, many of the best craft breweries won't give details such as, New Glarus, Three Floyds, Victory, Founders and many more.

Breweries don't owe the homebrewing community anything.

 

[E-Mursed]

Kuhnhenn's gold medal winning DRIPA tastes suspiciously like Pliny.

Had one the other day and it was AWESOME!!!

 

[caber2615]

You asked for the most important part of the recipe and then you threw a hissy fit when they wouldn't give it to you. This is a classic case of false sense of entitlement.

Just because some breweries give details about their recipes doesn't mean everyone should. In fact, many of the best craft breweries won't give details such as, New Glarus, Three Floyds, Victory, Founders and many more.

Breweries don't owe the homebrewing community anything.

Just for the record, its not like I went in there stomping my feet and whining like a 13 year old girl...just expected a less canned more human response to my questions, even if they couldnt or didnt want to answer them.

You are right though, they dont owe us a thing. Business is business, and sharing any part of a recipie or a process can compromise it. Just means I will have to spend more time on the boards asking all you experts questions instead of trying the breweries first.

 

[Sithdad]

I can understand them not wanting to give out the info. Stone Brewing will give out everything you need to brew all of their beers except Arrogant Bastard. On C"Can You Brew It" with Jamil Z. they have the head brewer from Stone on when they attempt to clone AB and all is says, "I can't tell you". I asked a local brew pub if they would give me the recipe for their porter and the email I got gave me the ingredients list and the ratios for each grain, but no specific weights for anything. Then he wished me luck and I took it upon myself to try and clone it. I was able to do it in 2 attempts.

Because there are so many similar beers out there when you come across a recipe that is unique you want to hold onto it for as long as you can. That's why there are patent laws.

 

[lewybrewing]

I would spin this differently. Use Twitter. Start by including them in a tweet. "I love this .......... beer @foundersbrewing" Then, if you have room in the tweet ask about the process, "Wonder when they add the nuts" Or whatever you would like to ask. It puts the brewery in a public forum and any response is open to all their followers. They will understand that you are a superfan and want to understand the process. I've even sent direct messages to breweries about my clone attempts, I almost always get a response of some sort.

Emailing a question is closed between you and them only. Remember, they might get 15 to 30 emails a day about the recipe all from people trying to take business away from them. (in their minds)

 

[MisterTipsy]

Screw that. Show up at the brewery packing heat and demand some answers!!!

 

[skibb]

They are in the production business and if they told everyone how to make their product then they wouldn't be in business.

This made me lol

Interesting - I've emailed Founders several times and each time I've received a "non-canned" answer, most of the time from a brewer. Just on these forums alone, you can find their recipes for Red's Rye PA, Founders Porter, and Centennial IPA. I wonder what has changed of late - maybe they just been overwhelmed with recipe related emails.

 

[caber2615]

I thought you would all like to see the response I recieved from my follow up with Founders. Even though they did not provide me with too much additional information, at least my questions were acknowledged and some actual information given.

Ryan, Thanks for your support of Founders. The cashews are added during fermentation, not during the brew. Our yeast strain is proprietary. Cheers! Brad Stevenson | Vice President of Operations

 

[Chriso]

Boom. Mash-nutted like I thought. Not dry nutted at all.

What? You dirty people. Psh.

 

[tre9er]

Boom. Mash-nutted like I thought. Not dry nutted at all.

What? You dirty people. Psh.

If I'm reading the brewer's email right, I think you have that backwards, no?

 

[Chriso]

HAH. Yes I am. Grrrr. English language, why you so difficult today?

In that case - It's added during fermentation? Strange... Now I'm going to have to find somewhere to pick up a bottle of this, for tasting.

 

[caber2615]

Now I'm going to have to find somewhere to pick up a bottle of this, for tasting.

Unfortunately, they didn’t bottle the Cashew Mountain Brown. It was only available in their tap room and at a few local beer fests.

They did recently bottle a different "Mountain Brown" beer called Frangelic Mountain Brown. Made with hazelnuts and hazelnut coffee. It was their last release in the Founders Backstage Series and came out in July I think. You can still find 750ml bombers here and there.

Its pretty good, but not as good as Cashew Mountain Brown, IMO. It wasn’t nearly as popular as the other Backstage beers either IE: Canadian Breakfast Stout, Blushing Monk.

 

[Chriso]

Dagnabbit. Fine then I need to drive to MI as soon as possible.

 

[JordanThomas]

Founders helped out a few members on here in the past with some great responses. OG, hop/yeast/base malt type, etc. If you search for the Porter clone or the Double Trouble threads, they were pretty cool about it!

It's quite possible that things have changed. I know some of the management there, and they are all really good people, so the response, while unfortunate for anyone attempting to clone a brew, was polite as I would expect. Anyhow, I'm sure someone has added cashew effectively before! Good luck!

 

[MisterTipsy]

But, but, they used big words like proprietary and sounded like an evil government agency who denied me of my God given right as an Amurrican to cherry pick commercial craft beer recipes!

 

[WharfRat]

OP, they have given you a gift. That gift is the THRILL you will feel when, after 20 batches, you taste that beer and know that you figured out the secret without any help or handouts. You will drunkenly say "I built that" and you will know that it is true!

Then, I trust, you will let the rest of us know how you did it, clearly and concisely. I thank you in advance and will await this post

 

[AdamWiz]

Think about it. They are in the production business and if they told everyone how to make their product then they wouldn't be in business.

This is absurd. Are you honestly telling me that any given craft brewery is one leaked recipe away from being put out of business by a curious homebrewer? HA! And if the concern is protecting the cashew addition mystery from other commercial breweries, honestly if a commercial brewery wanted to copy it, they eventually could. It would just take a little time and some test batches. I mean, I've only been brewing for a few years, and I have only basic equipment - yet within 3-4 batches I can come reasonably close to most commercial brews. You honestly think that a pro brewery couldn't clone any brew they wanted if they tried it and tweaked it a few times? Other than a proprietary yeast, ALL beers are clone-able. And about Founders' initial response which included "these recipes took years to perfect" - I hate it when breweries pretend that each and every beer they make took forever to create, as if they had to meditate on a mountain top somewhere for a decade before being inspired for this magical brew. I don't buy that it took them years to come up with this at all. A few months, several test batches, until they hit on something they like. Try a few different things, see which is better, do it that way. It's not exactly rocket science. Some brewers get a little vain about the whole "artist" aspect to brewing. They want to believe that they are Picasso, rather than the brewery janitors we basically are. Bottom line, in my book any brewer (pro or homebrewer - especially homebrewer) that is secretive about anything is an arrogant bastard(get it?). If you are confident in your abilities as a brewer, you have nothing to fear from sharing. No one recipe makes a great brewer - great technique and the willingness to try new things do. The arguments against sharing simply do not hold water. Now if you'll excuse me, I have an email to send to the colonel regarding his secret blend of herbs and spices.

 

[AdamWiz]

But, but, they used big words like proprietary and sounded like an evil government agency who denied me of my God given right as an Amurrican to cherry pick commercial craft beer recipes!

Man - judging from your posts, you seem really worked up about this. Nobody is talking about it being our "right" to get commercial recipes - we're just saying that all the arguments against doing so are B.S., and all pro and homebrewers should openly share information - there's just no good reason not to. 99% of the most popular craft brews out there today could be easily re-created (or at least come close)at any brewery with a little time and a few test batches, so might as well be friendly and share.

 

[AdamWiz]

Unfortunately, they didn’t bottle the Cashew Mountain Brown. It was only available in their tap room and at a few local beer fests.

This is the other thing - they obviously aren't trying to make a ton of money on this beer or build their brewery around it. It was a one-off, so why would they feel the need to "protect" it?

 

[PapsD]

I thought you would all like to see the response I recieved from my follow up with Founders. Even though they did not provide me with too much additional information, at least my questions were acknowledged and some actual information given.

Ryan, Thanks for your support of Founders. The cashews are added during fermentation, not during the brew. Our yeast strain is proprietary. Cheers! Brad Stevenson | Vice President of Operations

I wonder if Brad still works @ founders?

Lots of companies have confidentiality agreements with their employees to protect proprietary information and processes. The company I work for has one. I can definitely see why companies have them. But it's brewi g it's not like the brewing process is some tightly guarded secret.

Makes you wonder how they treat their brewers and if they make them sign confidentiality and non-competition agreements.

 

[Velinos]

I have had a completely different experience with them, at least from one of their reps. One of their reps was doing a tasting at a local liquor store and she seemed pretty knowledgeable and willing to share info. I did not press her, but she did tell me that they use only one strain of yeast for all their beers. I am not sure if she meant that for every beer they do or just the year rounds, which were being poured for the tasting. She also said that their pale ale is brewed specifically to propagate the yeast for other beers. From my limited knowledge of commercial brewing processes these things could be practices common to most breweries, but at least it is something.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Man - judging from your posts, you seem really worked up about this. Nobody is talking about it being our "right" to get commercial recipes - we're just saying that all the arguments against doing so are B.S., and all pro and homebrewers should openly share information - there's just no good reason not to. 99% of the most popular craft brews out there today could be easily re-created (or at least come close)at any brewery with a little time and a few test batches, so might as well be friendly and share.

Don't waste your keystrokes on me.

Contact Three Floyds and New Glarus and convince them they have no reason to keep their recipes secret because you know what's best for their business.

When they politely tell you to go pound some sand, then you can cry about it and complain to the internet.

 

[AdamWiz]

Contact Three Floyds and New Glarus and convince them they have no reason to keep their recipes secret because you know what's best for their business.

I'm not saying its what's best for them - I'm just saying they really have no reason to be secretive when with a little time, any good brewer can replicate their beers anyway. We just look to them for info so we don't have to make as many test batches, and can start out with a better general idea of how they made it. If you think keeping recipes secret is so important, let's hear one good sound argument as to why. I understand that it is their right to keep secrets, I would just like to hear a logical explanation as to what it accomplishes.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I can understand them sending a canned response. I'm sure they get requests like this all the time and it takes time away from actual work. OTOH, there are a lot of brewers/brewery folks who are very forthcoming and willing to share info. It's been my experience that brewers - home or pro - who guard their info like a state secret only have these few recipes going for them and feel like if it's out there, they are sunk. Fact is, 40 brewers in the same town can brew the exact same recipe and will turn out 40 different tasting beers!

 

[iambeer]

If Founders keeps making beer as well as they do, then I don't care how well they appease the populace.

 

[Jukas]

I got the exact same canned response when I asked them a question about cerise

Thank you for your support and interest in Founders. As you can imagine, we have a lot of time and effort invested into the development of beers like Cerise. Unfortunately, we cannot share recipe or process information that is proprietary to Founders. We do wish you well in your brewing adventures.

We hope to be out in CA someday, but unsure when that will be exactly. Thank you in advance for your continued patience!

I'll still drink a cerise, or a breakfast stout every chance I can get my hands on them.

 

[AdamWiz]

I think some are missing my point. I am not in any way saying that I am angry at the people at Founders, or that I would boycott their beer because of this. I am just wondering what the point is, when as I have said if another brewer really wanted to they could clone it without their help. Why not help a brother out when with a little time they will be able to do it anyway?

 

[iambeer]

I think some are missing my point. I am not in any way saying that I am angry at the people at Founders, or that I would boycott their beer because of this. I am just wondering what the point is, when as I have said if another brewer really wanted to they could clone it without their help. Why not help a brother out when with a little time they will be able to do it anyway?

The way I see your point regardless of your good and harmless intentions is you are targeting publicly a brewery for not supplying you with intellectual property. First, I would not blame the brewery for one employee's response. Second, you're just a victim. You think you are entitled to any information without paying for it, but it's not your fault--like I said you are a victim (of middle class values).

 

[AdamWiz]

you're just a victim. You think you are entitled to any information without paying for it

ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying it is my "right" to this information, I am not saying I am "entitled" to anything. I am just wondering what reason they would possibly have for keeping this info from a homebrewer. I still have heard no legitimate argument for it. Please name me anything negative that would come from them sharing some recipe info.

but it's not your fault--like I said you are a victim (of middle class values).

Leave it to the guy from DC to inject a political slant into this. I smell a conservative. Homebrew talk is the place I go to get away from political nonsense like this that is all over the place these days, take that stuff elsewhere.

 

[iambeer]

ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying it is my "right" to this information, I am not saying I am "entitled" to anything. I am just wondering what reason they would possibly have for keeping this info from a homebrewer. I still have heard no legitimate argument for it. Please name me anything negative that would come from them sharing some recipe info. Leave it to the guy from DC to inject a political slant into this. I smell a conservative. Homebrew talk is the place I go to get away from political nonsense like this that is all over the place these days, take that stuff elsewhere.

Property is not political. You are making it political. And you have the wrong idea about me and about DC as a whole. Your dilemma of wanting protected info for your hobby is completely insignificant.