My first IPA

[Whut]

Well, you just have to add "I'm just sayin is all" at the end, and it totally puts you in the clear and disassociates you from anything negative you might have said.

Or have the following disclaimer as your sig:

"*Disclaimer: I tell it like it is with brutal honesty, passionated opinion, and sometimes a bit of sarcastic humor. Try not to take it personal.*"

But if you do your doing it wrong (like FWH).

 

[IPA-Hole]

You know what, you can not eat mac n' cheese with a spoon. You just can't! You can only eat it with a fork. You see, the fork allows the cheese to flow between the fingers of the fork allowing for a betting flavor uptake on your palette. Anybody who eats mac n' cheese with a spoon is just eating it wrong and will never be able to have the same flavor that people who use forks will have. I don't care what anybody else thinks or anybody else's opinion on the subject as you are wrong! Spoons will never have the same effect on the flavor of the mac n' cheese that can be obtained with using a fork. Don't try to argue your point with me or even try to give me your opinion as your just wrong.

mmmmmmmm....Mac n' cheese! -> with a fork!

I think it's time to "stick a fork" in this thread. Not a spoon but a fork. Spoons are for absolute noobs & sissies. My mac n' cheese is award winning. Always. Never forget that. Marie Callendar said so.

 

[JoeMomma85]

I think it's time to "stick a fork" in this thread. Not a spoon but a fork. Spoons are for absolute noobs & sissies. My mac n' cheese is award winning. Always. Never forget that. Marie Callendar said so.

Most relevant username.

 

[IPA-Hole]

Most relevant username.

I resemble that remark.

 

[TahoeRy]

Is this debate really over! Man, I was getting some good laughs out of this thread. Well OP, I bet you didn't expect this when you posted your question but I hope you got some good advice out of all of that back and forth. I would say that almost everybody gave you solid advice, except for my mac n' cheese commit. I will go ahead and revoke that, spoons are ok. Good luck on your IPA!

 

[Jeepaholic]

Is this debate really over! Man, I was getting some good laughs out of this thread. Well OP, I bet you didn't expect this when you posted your question but I hope you got some good advice out of all of that back and forth. I would say that almost everybody gave you solid advice, except for my mac n' cheese commit. I will go ahead and revoke that, spoons are ok. Good luck on your IPA!

Of the threads I have made thus far this is my favorite. It got a little off topic but I think it went right where it needed top. This thread has given me a few good laughs.

This thread has changed my plan for the recipe. I'm going to make the exact same recipe one standard bittering one FWH. I would like the opportunity to try this one head to head. If any body near Kansas city that would like to help me determine witch is the best (to you) let me know and you can come over, discuss the issue at hand with a few pints of home brew.

Thanks for the good time,
Marcus

 

[DuckiesRevenge]

Of the threads I have made thus far this is my favorite. It got a little off topic but I think it went right where it needed top. This thread has given me a few good laughs.

This thread has changed my plan for the recipe. I'm going to make the exact same recipe one standard bittering one FWH. I would like the opportunity to try this one head to head. If any body near Kansas city that would like to help me determine witch is the best (to you) let me know and you can come over, discuss the issue at hand with a few pints of home brew.

Thanks for the good time,
Marcus

I must say Marcus, thanks for starting this thread. It has been a treat to read with all the passion, rage, and sarcasm that came about. Also please let us known how it turns out. I'm fascinated to see what you think and what the results will be.

 

[TahoeRy]

I would love to hear your results of a side by side as well, I think that would be really interesting.

 

[tennesseean_87]

You know what, you can not eat mac n' cheese with a spoon. You just can't! You can only eat it with a fork. You see, the fork allows the cheese to flow between the fingers of the fork allowing for a betting flavor uptake on your palette. Anybody who eats mac n' cheese with a spoon is just eating it wrong and will never be able to have the same flavor that people who use forks will have. I don't care what anybody else thinks or anybody else's opinion on the subject as you are wrong! Spoons will never have the same effect on the flavor of the mac n' cheese that can be obtained with using a fork. Don't try to argue your point with me or even try to give me your opinion as your just wrong.

mmmmmmmm....Mac n' cheese! -> with a fork!

You missed hte main point with this analogy--eating it with a spoon means that although it may be good food, it's no longer Mac 'n' Cheese!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

(looks around carefully) Ok, I think it's safe for me to chime in on this thread now. Just my experience, but I brew a lot of IPA/IIPA and hopped up pales and ambers. I really like the results I get from FWHing and loads of late and whirlpool hopping in combo. Hop bursting, I guess you'd call it. IME, yes, the bitterness perceived from FWing is more smooth, mellow, whatever, but it's still there and can easily be made more assertive by upping the size of the FW addition. You can also up the perception of smooth hops bitterness with an extended hop stand/whirlpool at middle of the road temps (170º-190ºF). I've made many a great IPA/IIPA using FWH and late or knockout hops only, many of them with an assertive, up front bitterness that may not have been sharp or harsh, but was definitely noticeable.

Sometimes I think people's opinions just get the better of them and well, you know what they say about opinions.

 

[LowNotes]

I must say Marcus, thanks for starting this thread. It has been a treat to read with all the passion, rage, and sarcasm that came about. Also please let us known how it turns out. I'm fascinated to see what you think and what the results will be.

Hehe, no kidding!

FWH = Serious Business!

 

[The_Dog_42]

All I know from reading this is that Yoopers whatever-you-call-it sounds amazing.

 

[theveganbrewer]

That was an entertaining 8 pages. I get most of my science on hops from Oregon State University, which has an amazing beer research program and Professor Shellhammer, who does a ton of research on hops. Shellhammer tested the idea that it is polyphenols in the hops that caused harshness. He found a "significant" perception of harsh bitterness and astringency in beer due to polyphenols. He found it also increased the the bitterness to linger longer.

This bit is from other research on polyphenols that I will apply to first wort hopping. Believe at your own risk, I don't have the time to piece together all the sources right now.

First wort hopping oxidizes the polyphenols in the hops which allows the polyphenols (makes it a harsh, astringent bitterness) to readily complex out. These compounds are then removed with a nice hot break, thus giving us more iso-acids and less polyphenols. Higher IBUs with less harshness. Bittering hops added after the hot break release polyphenols that are not as readily oxidized and are less soluble in the wort.

Wasn't it Yooper posting about being a big fan of strong, healthy hot breaks? Her hot break obsession combined with a FWH could be providing her beers with significant IBU contributions without much harshness and leaving a smooth, uniform bitterness.

On a side note, Miller owns a patent on a process described as "Method of preparing a full hop flavoured beverage of low bitterness". It patents the method of preparing light stable, hop flavoured, fermented beverages that possess less bitterness, yet have comparable hop flavour to a fermented beverage prepared with whole hops with the use of a high polyphenol hop flavouring residue that originates from a solid spent-hop material resultant from super-critical CO2 extraction of whole hops.

 

[mmb]

On a side note, Miller owns a patent on a process described as "Method of preparing a full hop flavoured beverage of low bitterness". It patents the method of preparing light stable, hop flavoured, fermented beverages that possess less bitterness, yet have comparable hop flavour to a fermented beverage prepared with whole hops with the use of a high polyphenol hop flavouring residue that originates from a solid spent-hop material resultant from super-critical CO2 extraction of whole hops.

That sounds really interesting. Miller should release a beer that uses the process. Full hop flavored would be nice.

 

[theveganbrewer]

That sounds really interesting. Miller should release a beer that uses the process. Full hop flavored would be nice.

They do, any beer in clear glass bottles has this hop extract in it. Not sure they don't use it in everything else too.

 

[JuanMoore]

They do, any beer in clear glass bottles has this hop extract in it. Not sure they don't use it in everything else too.

 

[Whut]

Ha!

 

[The_Dog_42]

I hope you made that by hand and scanned it in, just for this occasion.


Wait...what...what is goo-gle?

 

[Yooper]

Wasn't it Yooper posting about being a big fan of strong, healthy hot breaks? Her hot break obsession combined with a FWH could be providing her beers with significant IBU contributions without much harshness and leaving a smooth, uniform bitterness.

"Obsession" with hot break? Me?

But I do think you are really on to something there.

I did this just yesterday- FWH with 1.5 ounces of hops (10 gallon batch, fly sparge so the FWH sat in 170 degree wort for almost an hour before boiling), then tons of late hops.

IBUs calculate pretty high, but I've made this beer about 50 times and it's not harshly bitter. It's got enough bittering to balance the malts for sure, and it's firmly bitter on the tongue, but it's not a lingering harshness. Instead, the bitterness is there but immediately the hops flavors and aromas take center stage.

Thanks for the info on the polyphenols. I'm not any sort of expert, and appreciate input from others. The only time I've really thought about polyphenols is when I'm lagering. One of the purposes of lagering near freezing is to "drop out polyphenols", as a German lager should be bitter without harshness as well.

 

[billl]

Just my 2 cents, but FWH = meh... I'm usually using a fairly smooth bittering hop to begin with and loading up on late addition hops. Any difference from the technique seems to be lost in the mix.

FWH is a pretty old technique that seems to have come back into style. It was developed before any of the modern high AA% hops though. I suspect that if I was bittering with 4oz of EKG instead of 1oz of magnum or warrior, FWH would make a more substantial difference.

 

[bottlebomber]

Wasn't it Yooper posting about being a big fan of strong, healthy hot dudes?

She did say that, if I remember correctly.

 

[schittbreff]

You know what, you can not eat mac n' cheese with a spoon. You just can't! You can only eat it with a fork. You see, the fork allows the cheese to flow between the fingers of the fork allowing for a betting flavor uptake on your palette. Anybody who eats mac n' cheese with a spoon is just eating it wrong and will never be able to have the same flavor that people who use forks will have. I don't care what anybody else thinks or anybody else's opinion on the subject as you are wrong! Spoons will never have the same effect on the flavor of the mac n' cheese that can be obtained with using a fork. Don't try to argue your point with me or even try to give me your opinion as your just wrong.

mmmmmmmm....Mac n' cheese! -> with a fork!

I eat em with chopsticks cuz i just don't give a ****!