My first infection!

[KCBigDog]

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h416/GreatKazou/BlueberryWheat25AUG13.jpg

Standard american wheat recipe with frozen blueberries added when I transferred to secondary. The bucket was brand new, and my sanitation is at an OCD level, so I can only assume it came from the blueberries?

I'm considering dumping the whole thing and pitching the bucket, but I'm open for suggestions before acting. I'm not a fan of sour beers, and certainly don't want to take a chance of having future infections.

Thoughts?

 

[KCBigDog]

Update:

I just built up the courage to taste it. I used my thief and pulled some from under the blueberries. It tasted pretty good, with no real sour flavor. My theory is that the bad stuff is on top of the blueberries.

Not sure if I should just keg it or cut my losses and dump the whole batch.

Waiting on thoughts from the experts in this forum.

 

[CastleHollow]

I'm not really an infection expert, however, I'll offer that it might not be bad stuff at all. Adding fruit to a secondary is enough to sometimes kick-start another fermentation from the additional fructose. In addition, freezing your fruit should take care of any potential crud, and the alcohol already generated by the primary fermentation is going to inhibit bacteria. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but you could just be looking at a thin layer of krausen with blueberries mixed in.

 

[freisste]

I'm kinda with the previous poster. Certainly can't say for sure, but it *could* be a layer of dried krausen that couldn't drop back into the brew because of the blueberries. Not sure. Let it ride. If it turns sour and you aren't into that, dump it.

 

[KCBigDog]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't think it could be krausen because it's pretty white in color.

The blueberries have been in there for 3 weeks.

Could it be anything harmful? Since the blueberries have been floating, could it be mold or bacteria growing on top of the blueberries?

 

[KCBigDog]

I decided not to do anything with it today. Figured I give time for more posts/opinions.

 

[KCBigDog]

Bump

 

[KCBigDog]

Bump again. Hoping some of the resident experts can give the picture a look and provide opinions.

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

If it doesn't have off flavors after 3 weeks it probably is old krausen. But btw freezing will not kill bugs on the berries.

 

[Darwin18]

You definitely have something going on there. I'm a little surprised given that your blueberries were frozen and you say that your sanitation is solid. I would taste it before you dump it though.

 

[KCBigDog]

You definitely have something going on there. I'm a little surprised given that your blueberries were frozen and you say that your sanitation is solid. I would taste it before you dump it though.

Think it could just be dried Krausen on top of the blueberries? If not that, could it potentially be something harmful?

I tasted it about 19 hours ago, and feel fine so far... LOL

 

[Darwin18]

Think it could just be dried Krausen on top of the blueberries? If not that, could it potentially be something harmful?

I tasted it about 19 hours ago, and feel fine so far... LOL

Hard to tell to be honest from the picture alone. The blueberry kolsch that I've brewed does not look at all like that. If tastes fine then you're probably fine.

 

[Veronis]

That looks like an infection to me, not a layer of dried krausen. The stretched-looking white opaque bubbles are what's tipping me off more than anything.

With the blueberries floating, bacteria was probably able to get a foothold on top, but not so much underneath due to the alcohol. In any case, when you're ready to bottle, I would rack to the bottling bucket as normal, from underneath the white layer, and taste it after it's in the bucket. If it tastes OK or even a little but sour, I'd bottle it. Time can fix off flavors. Even if it tastes bad, time can theoretically fix that, given a few months or so.

Since bacteria will eat things in wort that yeast won't, be sure to open a bottle every week to make sure it's not over-carbing due to an infection. If you open a bottle that's at room temp (68-72) and it gushes foam, you're probably headed for bottle bombs. Wear protective eye gear and gloves when checking bottles. Also, you can store the cases in a large plastic tote if you want to be doubly safe - that way if a bottle happens to explode, the mess is fully contained.

The worst you'll get from this beer, assuming I'm right and it's an infection, is maybe a belly ache and diarrhea for a day. Beer infection won't actually hurt you.

See here for wise words: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

Time will not fix an infection or its off flavors

 

[Veronis]

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that. If it's an actual infection, the flavor will get worse over time. But if it's not an infection, there could be off flavors caused by any number of other things (including just being green beer), and time will fix those off flavors.

My main point was to not give up on the batch - see it through bottling/conditioning.

 

[KCBigDog]

If I do move forward with this batch, I had planned on kegging the entire batch instead of bottling so I wouldn't even have to worry about bottle bombs.

I always naturally carb my kegs with corn sugar, so I would follow that same process. I could always look at it in a few weeks in the keg to see if it has re-grown in the keg. That would certainly signify an infection.

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

If I do move forward with this batch, I had planned on kegging the entire batch instead of bottling so I wouldn't even have to worry about bottle bombs.

I always naturally carb my kegs with corn sugar, so I would follow that same process. I could always look at it in a few weeks in the keg to see if it has re-grown in the keg. That would certainly signify an infection.

Remember if it is infected you are spreading that to all your kegging equipment.

 

[stratslinger]

Remember if it is infected you are spreading that to all your kegging equipment.

That's basically false. I've kegged a couple of sour beers, and the guys in my club have kegged considerably more than I have, and the folks on this board have collectively kegged far more than that, and the bugs in those sours (all technically "infected" in one way or another) do not spread. Kegs are stainless, and very easy to clean. Shanks and faucets, being either chrome or stainless, are similarly non-porous and easy to clean. Tap lines, for whatever reason, are also very easy to clean - and if they don't come clean, they're pretty dang cheap to replace.

 

[KCBigDog]

Crap, now I'm back to considering just dumping it.

Is this bucket (brand new) toast? If I siphon it out, is the auto-siphon and tube garbage at that point?

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

That's basically false. I've kegged a couple of sour beers, and the guys in my club have kegged considerably more than I have, and the folks on this board have collectively kegged far more than that, and the bugs in those sours (all technically "infected" in one way or another) do not spread. Kegs are stainless, and very easy to clean. Shanks and faucets, being either chrome or stainless, are similarly non-porous and easy to clean. Tap lines, for whatever reason, are also very easy to clean - and if they don't come clean, they're pretty dang cheap to replace.

It is cleanable but none the less it is there. Scratches in lines and other stuff make it harder to rid.

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

Crap, now I'm back to considering just dumping it.

Is this bucket (brand new) toast? If I siphon it out, is the auto-siphon and tube garbage at that point?

I'd just clean with a weak bleach solution, its bacteria. I'd only toss the stuff if there are scratches in contact surface. But I would toss the tubing (way to cheap to replace to risk)

 

[Clonefan94]

Couuld it just be moldy fruit that hasn't been able to take ahold in the beer? Blueberries seem to be one of those things that gets moldy right off the bat if left at room temp.

 

[KCBigDog]

Couuld it just be moldy fruit that hasn't been able to take ahold in the beer? Blueberries seem to be one of those things that gets moldy right off the bat if left at room temp.

I think it could be that, but since mold pretty much doesn't die, I would really want to dump the batch.

I've brewed with fruit many times, and always just used frozen fruit with no issues. I'll never do that again!

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

Even a quick dip in star san is better than relying on freezing. Freezing can kill some but also just make some bugs only dormant and not kill them.

 

[KCBigDog]

After some research and talking to a wine guy, I feel pretty confident that this is mold on top of the fruit because it was floating in the bucket. This was my first time using a bucket instead of a better bottle.

Based on this, I'm not sure if I should rack from under the berries or just dump it. The mold will be in the back of my mind.