My first AG brew, had a few problems...

[MaxSpang]

Typical first AG brewer, I made a few mistakes.

It was a porter, and had about 11 lbs of grain.

First off, I used a ratio of 1.5 qts per lb of grain, which I think is a bit high. It ended up being somewhere around 4 - 4.5 gallons of water in the mash (I added a little extra... don't know why). I mashed at right around 152 which remained pretty constant. Mashed for an hour.

I did the iodine test (it showed red), then put it another 2-3 gallons for a mashout. In retrospect, this seems like WAY too much water. The first runnings were damn near 6 gallons! I could only sparge with about 2-3 qts at 180 degrees, and I don't know if it made a big difference.

My target OG was 1.055, and I only hit 1.042! I was considering throwing in some light DME, but I decided that I wanted to have a truly all-grain batch of beer.



My questions are:

• Should I use 1 qt per lb of grain to mash?
• Should I even bother with doing a mashout?
• Is the thin mash and/or small sparge the reason my OG is so low?
• I wanted to add blueberries after the initial fermentation, will the blueberries add any body and/or boost the ABV?

I also did a reading the other day (about 4 days after pitching), and it's only 1.020 and it looks like fermentation has stopped. I'll check again today to make sure it's not stuck (I doubt it is, but you never know).


I'm not going to ask if my beer is ruined, because I don't think it is. I think I'm going to be stuck with a very dry porter. I just hope it's worthy of the blueberries I have (they were hand-picked at my late grandpas house a few hundred miles away).


If you have any other tips or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Zeppman]

Congrats on your first AG Maxspang. I'll offer my suggestions. For homebrewers, the mash water/lbs of grain ratio is not that critical, as long as you are in the ballpark, which you were. I don't really mash out. I drain my tun, and then do the split sparge method (there are instructions somewhere on this site). Basically I mash in the low 150s, vorlauf, drain the tun, add half my sparge water (somewhere around 200F) that brings the grain up to 165ish, let it sit for 20min, vorlauf, and repeat with the other half of my sparge water (usually 180 which keeps the mash right under 170). I usually get 70-75% eff. I found these numbers with brewing software and experience, so it may take you a few batches if you choose this method.

I'd blame your low OG on lack of sparging. I would not mash at 1qt per lb. Keep it around 1.33 unless you are doing something special. The mashout is up to you. If I had an easier way to do it, I would. I'll let someone else chime in here. As far as the blueberries go, (if it were me) I wouldn't want to add something like that to my first all grain. But I like to start simple. The blue berries won't really effect your ABV or body.

Its only been 4 days, your yeast is not finished. Did you aerate your wort at all? What yeast did you use?

 

[MaxSpang]

Congrats on your first AG Maxspang. I'll offer my suggestions. For homebrewers, the mash water/lbs of grain ratio is not that critical, as long as you are in the ballpark, which you were. I don't really mash out. I drain my tun, and then do the split sparge method (there are instructions somewhere on this site). Basically I mash in the low 150s, vorlauf, drain the tun, add half my sparge water (somewhere around 200F) that brings the grain up to 165ish, let it sit for 20min, vorlauf, and repeat with the other half of my sparge water (usually 180 which keeps the mash right under 170). I usually get 70-75% eff. I found these numbers with brewing software and experience, so it may take you a few batches if you choose this method.

I'd blame your low OG on lack of sparging. I would not mash at 1qt per lb. Keep it around 1.33 unless you are doing something special. The mashout is up to you. If I had an easier way to do it, I would. I'll let someone else chime in here. As far as the blueberries go, (if it were me) I wouldn't want to add something like that to my first all grain. But I like to start simple. The blue berries won't really effect your ABV or body.

Its only been 4 days, your yeast is not finished. Did you aerate your wort at all? What yeast did you use?

Thanks!

For aerating, I did the sit-on-the-floor-and-shake-like-crazy method, which I have always used for my Extract brews and has worked well so far. I used WLP013 London Ale.

I definitely didn't let the sparge water sit for an extended period of time, either. That probably had an effect on the beer.


I also forgot to mention that I don't think I stirred enough when I added the grains to the water. I stirred for a moment, but I was so concerned about the mash temp than I didn't want to stir it too much.

 

[JLW]

I mash similar to Zeppman. I use 1.25 quarts per lb of grain. Mash for desired temp and time. Then recirculate a gallon or two of the wort back into the grain bed and then drain. Then I usuall do two batch sparges with water around 170. The forst is usually around 2 gallons and the second is usually 3.5 or 4 gallons and again at 170. Both sparges last about 10 to 15 minutes. I get consistent 73% to 75% efficiency. I also recirculate the first runnings off of each sparge. I'll admit that may be completely unecesarry but I do it any way.

 

[JLW]

Thanks!

For aerating, I did the sit-on-the-floor-and-shake-like-crazy method, which I have always used for my Extract brews and has worked well so far. I used WLP013 London Ale.

I definitely didn't let the sparge water sit for an extended period of time, either. That probably had an effect on the beer.


I also forgot to mention that I don't think I stirred enough when I added the grains to the water. I stirred for a moment, but I was so concerned about the mash temp than I didn't want to stir it too much.

One thing I have learned to do is to heat an additional quarter or two in case I miss on the low side. If you end up too hot throw a couple of handfulls of ice into the mash to bring the temp down.

You definately want to stir the grain well. I usuall add 1/2 the water and 1/2 the grain and mix. then add the rest and mix again.

 

[Yooper]

If you're batch sparging, there is no need for a mash out. The first suggestion I have is to stir! Stir like your life depended on it, and then stir some more. You want to thoroughly stir the grist and water, and then stir some more. I like to check the temperature in a few different places after that- and if the temperature is different, the mash needs to be stirred some more!

I'd start with 1.25 quarts per pound of grain at first, and have some extra hot and extra cold water handy in case you miss your temperature.

When the mash is over, I'd drain it all out and then measure the runnings. If you have, say, 3 gallons, then you know you need 3.5 gallons of sparge water if you want a 6.5 gallon boil. That's the easy way to learn your system, and not overshoot or undershoot your water. Add the sparge water in two rounds of batch sparging, using 1/2 the water each time. You can sparge with really hot water in the first round- as you will want to bring your grainbed up to 168 or so. So the first addition of sparge water can be really hot- 190 degrees probably, to bring your grainbed from 152 to 168!

Undersparging is probably the reason you were so low in efficiency.

 

[JLW]

If you're batch sparging, there is no need for a mash out. The first suggestion I have is to stir! Stir like your life depended on it, and then stir some more. You want to thoroughly stir the grist and water, and then stir some more. I like to check the temperature in a few different places after that- and if the temperature is different, the mash needs to be stirred some more!

I'd start with 1.25 quarts per pound of grain at first, and have some extra hot and extra cold water handy in case you miss your temperature.

When the mash is over, I'd drain it all out and then measure the runnings. If you have, say, 3 gallons, then you know you need 3.5 gallons of sparge water if you want a 6.5 gallon boil. That's the easy way to learn your system, and not overshoot or undershoot your water. Add the sparge water in two rounds of batch sparging, using 1/2 the water each time. You can sparge with really hot water in the first round- as you will want to bring your grainbed up to 168 or so. So the first addition of sparge water can be really hot- 190 degrees probably, to bring your grainbed from 152 to 168!

Undersparging is probably the reason you were so low in efficiency.

Yooper, question for you. I recirculate a few quarters off of my batch sparges. Is this at all necesarry?

 

[MaxSpang]

Thanks a lot!

I'm diligently taking notes as we speak haha.

I'll admit, I was a little turned off by All Grain after the few mishaps, but thanks to you guys I am feeling a lot more confident.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, question for you. I recirculate a few quarters off of my batch sparges. Is this at all necesarry?

Yes, I vorlauf before draining. It keeps the big chunks out and helps set the grainbed up as a filter. Usually two quarts is sufficient!

 

[Zeppman]

Recirculation is necessary anytime you disturb the grain bed. I'm sure if you looked carefully, after each batch sparge, your first 1/2 gal or so has grain particles in it.

 

[JLW]

Thanks a lot!

I'm diligently taking notes as we speak haha.

I'll admit, I was a little turned off by All Grain after the few mishaps, but thanks to you guys I am feeling a lot more confident.

You'll get there. We all started AG with a few mishaps, fear, confusion and whatnot.

For me I wrote my process down and then checked the box at every step.

 

[kev7555]

Ah...lets not confuse this guy about recirculation...

yes, it's neccesary to help set the grain bed, and yes, if you stir up the entire thing and disturb it that much you should recirculate but disturbing just the top inch or two of your mash does not require more recirculation. I regularly rake the top of my mash as soon as I begin my sparge and continue to do so through most of it so as not to create holes that will by-pass the rinsing of sugars from the bed.

Larger commercial operations have motorized rakes that continuously rake the top section of the mash during sparge.


-Kev

 

[MaxSpang]

So I just took another reading... It's been fermenting for over a week and it's stuck at 1.020 which means it's only like 3.1% abv.

It tastes ok. The roasty/coffee flavor is really high which isn't necessarilly bad, but not exactly what I was shooting for.

Anything I can do to get the FG down?

 

[Zeppman]

Have you tried giving it a swirl to get the yeast back in suspension? Maybe add more yeast?

 

[JLW]

So I just took another reading... It's been fermenting for over a week and it's stuck at 1.020 which means it's only like 3.1% abv.

It tastes ok. The roasty/coffee flavor is really high which isn't necessarilly bad, but not exactly what I was shooting for.

Anything I can do to get the FG down?

Give it a good swirl and make sure it its in a warm a spot. I usually tip the fermentor on its edge and give it a good swirl to try and and get the yeast active again.

 

[MaxSpang]

Thanks, I'll try giving it a good swirl after work tonight. I actually double pitched the yeast since I was anticipating an OG of 1.055 and didn't have time to make a starter, so there should be more than enough yeast in there. It's also right around 73 degrees, so it should be plenty warm but if it doesn't start getting more active soon then I might try putting it into a warmer spot.


Thanks again for all the help, guys! I really appreciate it

 

[MaxSpang]

So it's definitely stuck at 1.020, it's been sitting for 3 weeks. I gave it a very good swirl and got all the yeast back in suspension, and no dice.

I'm thinking about racking it to secondary and pitching some US-05 or something like that. I'm getting a little aggrivated with this batch