OP
OP
Ok sweet! I think I'll just carefully work with the step bit I have. I will need to pick up some cutting oil though, I do not have any.
Thanks for the advice!
Thanks for the advice!
My Electric Brewery
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augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I Used harbor frieght bits which cut through the stainless like a knife through hot butter with wd40 (not proper cutting oil I know) once I realized that you need to run the drill at a very slow speed... I destroyed another bit in about 5 seconds by drilling too fast.... Then drilled 7 holes with another bit with no noticeable wear through the gold colored nitride plating... If you don't have a variable speed drill don't waste your time or money trying step bits...
TungstenBeer
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
I do like those. But I'm gonna go with one PID that I will use to control both HLT and BK. HLT will require temp control.
I need to update my op more!
I need to update my op more!
OP
OP
Just ordered myself a control panel enclosure off ebay!
Got this one for $56
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201219909225
Was hoping to find a better deal, but hopefully I can re use some of the controls that come with this. The layout of the holes should work just fine, at least I think so right now. Will have to add a couple more holes prob, but that's ok. Really like the style of this enclosure.
Also got the seller to throw in a couple 30A plugs to sweeten the deal!
Got this one for $56
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201219909225
Was hoping to find a better deal, but hopefully I can re use some of the controls that come with this. The layout of the holes should work just fine, at least I think so right now. Will have to add a couple more holes prob, but that's ok. Really like the style of this enclosure.
Also got the seller to throw in a couple 30A plugs to sweeten the deal!
TungstenBeer
Well-Known Member
Nice! From an aesthetics standpoint, I really like those sloped enclosures.
OP
OP
I do too, saw somebody's in the control panel forum and had to find one ha.
Hopefully there is enough room inside it to wire easily
OP
OP
Quick question for anyone:
I found a 2 pole GFCI breaker that I can put in my main breaker panel on ebay for $45! With that I could skip the spa panel and a couple of the spendy plugs/recepticles
Problem is, the GFCI breaker is 50 amp, but my setup will be based off 30 amp. Is it bad to have that much "extra room" or should that be ok?
Its a really smoking deal on a GFCI breaker, so I don't wanna pass on it!
I found a 2 pole GFCI breaker that I can put in my main breaker panel on ebay for $45! With that I could skip the spa panel and a couple of the spendy plugs/recepticles
Problem is, the GFCI breaker is 50 amp, but my setup will be based off 30 amp. Is it bad to have that much "extra room" or should that be ok?
Its a really smoking deal on a GFCI breaker, so I don't wanna pass on it!
Breakers protect the wire, not the device. this means that you have to wire for 50 amp and likely that additional wire cost will offest the cost difference for a plan old 30 AMP GFCI. 6 gauge wire ain't cheap and I am pretty sure you will need three strands of it.
cantrell00
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Just one man's opinion but unless you intend to run the BK & HLT at the same time, you only need 2 temp probes & 1 PID...
1 probe in the brew kettle (really nice to see temps drop while chilling, whirlpool hopping at set temps, etc.. )
1 probe at the inlet to your MLT from your HERMS. This will regulate your HLT temp while recirculating and sparging.
It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated (or expensive) as that.
You can monitor the temp of the HLT & MLT with a simple $15.00 dial thermometer for reference points on the HERMS.
1 probe in the brew kettle (really nice to see temps drop while chilling, whirlpool hopping at set temps, etc.. )
1 probe at the inlet to your MLT from your HERMS. This will regulate your HLT temp while recirculating and sparging.
It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated (or expensive) as that.
You can monitor the temp of the HLT & MLT with a simple $15.00 dial thermometer for reference points on the HERMS.
OP
OP
You gave me a good idea here.
First off, at this point, I will not be doing any HERMS system, though I will want to in the future.
But the idea you gave me is this.
You are right, I only DO need to go with one pid. I could really have as many thermometers as I want and just plug/unplug the right ones when needed. I was going to skip having on in the BK, but now I think i will put on in there. I agree that it would be nice to monitor temps for chilling, I like that idea.
I going to do a minimum of 2 probes at this point. 1 in the HLT (for the PID to read and control my strike/sparge water, still will be batch sparging) and 1 in the MLT to monitor the temp in the mash. I could either add another probe or just use the same one from the MLT. I know I will be mounting the probe for the HLT, but can't decide if I want to mount the one in the MLT. If I don't mount the one in the MLT it'll be as easy as pulling the probe out of the mash and setting in the BK! Or I could add a 3rd probe and mount all 3 in their respective vessels.
Regardless of which way I go, I agree, I can def go with just one PID!
OP
OP
Ok thanks for the advice.
Crunched some numbers and you are right.
At this point it'll be the most economical to buy a 30 amp breaker and use a spa panel.
Unless I can find a good deal on a 30 amp Square D Homeline GFCI 2 pole...
OP
OP
I updated the OP again in case anyone wants to know. Will start a section including all my costs and such.
cantrell00
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When you go HERMS you will find that having the PID reading the wort returning to your HLT to be the best place for your PID to measure.
If you place it at the inlet to the MLT the PID can assess any thermal losses post HLT.
The least effective place in my system for the PID to measure temps was the mash or the MLT drain.
All just FYI. You will need to tailor it to your setup obviously. Just passing on my experiences with it..
OP
OP
I appreciate the advice! This will probably be the route I go in the future. Just am not able to incur the costs of HERMS at this point.
When I do though, I will use my current PID but configured for just the herms aspect. Then I would like to add a dial control for the BK.
LandoLincoln
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That would work GREAT if thermo probes didn't need temperature correction. But a lot of them do.
cantrell00
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This is undoubtedly true overall but my two Auber RTD's read the same... Certainly within a degree of each other.
The HLT probe is the one that is critical though. The brew kettle probe is really just a reference point.
OP
OP
Ah good call. Didn't think of this.
I'd like to have accurate readings of my MLT and HLT using one probe for each. May need to go back to my previous idea of getting a 2nd PID.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Are we still talking about $200 for 2 auber pids and sensors with shipping or $50 for thier functional equivalent from eBay or amazon?
Because I would recommend spending $100 on 2 mypin pids, 2 rtd pt100 sensors and the coil and fittings for your herms since you mentioned you don't have the extra money to waste.
The rtd sensors on aubers site are in no way superior to the same ones made in the same factories in China which auber stocks locally and marks up for this reason...
I can comment on how much better the pids really are but I have 4 mypin pids and all work flawlessly and have for over a year.
I f I haven't mentioned it yet you would want a ta4 for the hlt since you don't need manual mode and a td4 for the boil kettle... Td4 models run about $26 with shipping and the ta4 as little as $20 they are the same except one has manual mode option built in.
Because I would recommend spending $100 on 2 mypin pids, 2 rtd pt100 sensors and the coil and fittings for your herms since you mentioned you don't have the extra money to waste.
The rtd sensors on aubers site are in no way superior to the same ones made in the same factories in China which auber stocks locally and marks up for this reason...
I can comment on how much better the pids really are but I have 4 mypin pids and all work flawlessly and have for over a year.
I f I haven't mentioned it yet you would want a ta4 for the hlt since you don't need manual mode and a td4 for the boil kettle... Td4 models run about $26 with shipping and the ta4 as little as $20 they are the same except one has manual mode option built in.
cantrell00
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Had I had this reference at the time, I would have chosen to save money as well...
That being said, I don't regret buying Auber gear.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Auber does have good support and their pids are nice since they designed and possibly manufactured them themselves in the US ( No one has ever actually commented on where they are made)... If you are on a budget or can wait an extra week or two I certainly would recommend buying your ssr, switches ,leds and sensors direct though instead of using them as a middleman as they have a 50-100% markup on these items because they stock them in the US as a convenience.
OP
OP
I haven't priced any of the non auber items at this point. And I am not against it.
You think I can get 2 PIDs, 2 rtd sensors, and a herms coil+fittings for around $100?
That would literally be the difference of doing herms right away vs down the road...
OP
OP
Plus pumps then I spose
ChocolateMaltyBalls
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's much difference between aubrins and China with the cords and temp probes. PIDs are a different story IMO, with those you aren't paying just for hardware you're paying for the software too.
I'm not knocking the other PIDs out there, I haven't used them and it sounds like they work well. Just seems to me you know what you're getting with Aubrins, plus they're super responsive to customers, and there's a lot of info out there on how to wire and set them up.
I'm not knocking the other PIDs out there, I haven't used them and it sounds like they work well. Just seems to me you know what you're getting with Aubrins, plus they're super responsive to customers, and there's a lot of info out there on how to wire and set them up.
tnorman93638
Well-Known Member
Sub'd
Been looking at building a control panel in stages like this. Looked at cost of MyPin Ta4 and Td4 but there are 2 types SNR and RNR. Which one would be used for this type a panel?
Been looking at building a control panel in stages like this. Looked at cost of MyPin Ta4 and Td4 but there are 2 types SNR and RNR. Which one would be used for this type a panel?
cantrell00
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Auber PIDs are Chinese.
A good, 50 x 1/2" coil w/ fittings will run you 125.00 by itself.
I wouldn't use anything smaller than 50 x 1/2".
A good, 50 x 1/2" coil w/ fittings will run you 125.00 by itself.
I wouldn't use anything smaller than 50 x 1/2".
I had a customer service nightmare with Auber. I would never recommend them. Probably the worst I've ever been treated by any company in my entire life. They actually deserve an entire thread about my transaction issues.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I use 24v food grade pps pumps... $20 a piece with shipping and they pump 3 gallons per minute.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Snr or SSR model rnr is the relay control model.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
You don't need 1/2" if your using a smaller flow pump... 3/8 does flow enough to keep consistent temps without issues. Just make sure you go with more than 25ft..
Sadly I figured the auber pids were also made in china... its funny everyone here leaves that part out when they are talking about supporting US made goods being the reason behind purchasing from them at twice the price... so an auber engineer or two likely designed them but has all the manufacturing done in china... this is the new business model of most "american" companies... some don't even design the products the brand and distribute.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Since the my pins work perfectly at temp control a d have done everything they are supposed to what exactly would be the advantage of spending $150 instead of the $65 it cost me for my 3 td4 pids?
Support is the only advantage I see and I haven't needed any since I have the internet for that.
Besides the directions which I only used during setup now that I know how the menu works there is no real advantage for the basic model with manual mode.(The my pin directions are bad so I did a search here for the info I needed as well as YouTube)
Auber does sell one with ramp soak which is like $85-$90 with shipping which does have that additional automatic feature once programmed... I do it manually.
cantrell00
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I will take your word for it. I read so many contradicting opinions on this that I didn't risk it.
That being said - it ramps fairly quickly for a HERMS.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I never said the 1/2" wouldn't work quicker
I probably should have worded my response better. 1/2" is a better choice but 3/8" will work as well if someone is on a budget...
cantrell00
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I never said the 1/2" wouldn't work quicker
I probably should have worded my response better. 1/2" is a better choice but 3/8" will work as well if someone is on a budget...
No doubt...
It really isn't that much more expensive to go with 1/2" though..
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Well you said 1/2" was $125 with fittings.... Stainless fittings average $10-15 but lead free brass ones are closer to $5 and 50ft of 3/8 copper coil is about $40-50... I made a 3/8 herms but I used 25ft of coil and had no way of mixing the hlt water to keep temps even so it didn't work well. Ive since switched to a stainless rims setup that uses a 25" stainless cartridge heater (1000w) that I built for about $100. The nice thing is I can run my hlt or bk element at the same time as my rims tube...(but not both 4500w elements at the same time since I have a 30a power source)
cantrell00
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That was all stainless gear... 1/2" 50' is about $25.00 more than 50' of 3/8" at Stainless Brewing... Fittings are practically the same cost..
OP
OP
My enclosure came in the mail yesterday! I had no idea how heavy those suckers are! It is a used one and has a bunch of holes already punched in it so I am hoping to come up with a good setup to take advantage of the current holes for my switches, lights, etc.
I will try to post a picture if I remember.
I began work on setting up my new brew keggle late last week. I installed the ballvalve, pickup tube, and the sight gauge.
Ran into a few issues, hopefully i can fix all of them tonight. One issue is that the sight gauge is leaking at the weldless connection. Should be easy enough to fix, just was getting rather annoyed with it that night and gave up.
I also marked the volume graduations on the sight gauge. While draining, i realized that I had it sitting on a not perfect level surface (bottom of bathtub). So i think I am going to have to start over with marking the graduations on a more level surface to accurately represent the volume of liquid in the keggle.
My last issue is the pickup tube. Not so much an issue as an annoyance/worry. I bought a 90* elbow with the angle pickup tube for whirlpooling. Figured this way I could try whirlpooling to keep the gunk out of my fermentor. The part that bothers me is how much deadspace it leaves behind. I hate wasting stuff! It leaves behind just under 3 quarts of liquid! Maybe I just need to get used to that, my last BK i would fully drain the wort through pretty much a sanitized BIAB bag while transferring to the fermentor. Didnt waste a drop! But thats prob just something I need to get used to doing. I could get a straight coupler and aim the pickup tube towards the center and capture prob another 2 quarts, would that be worth it? OR should I just stop worrying?!?!?
I will try to post a picture if I remember.
I began work on setting up my new brew keggle late last week. I installed the ballvalve, pickup tube, and the sight gauge.
Ran into a few issues, hopefully i can fix all of them tonight. One issue is that the sight gauge is leaking at the weldless connection. Should be easy enough to fix, just was getting rather annoyed with it that night and gave up.
I also marked the volume graduations on the sight gauge. While draining, i realized that I had it sitting on a not perfect level surface (bottom of bathtub). So i think I am going to have to start over with marking the graduations on a more level surface to accurately represent the volume of liquid in the keggle.
My last issue is the pickup tube. Not so much an issue as an annoyance/worry. I bought a 90* elbow with the angle pickup tube for whirlpooling. Figured this way I could try whirlpooling to keep the gunk out of my fermentor. The part that bothers me is how much deadspace it leaves behind. I hate wasting stuff! It leaves behind just under 3 quarts of liquid! Maybe I just need to get used to that, my last BK i would fully drain the wort through pretty much a sanitized BIAB bag while transferring to the fermentor. Didnt waste a drop! But thats prob just something I need to get used to doing. I could get a straight coupler and aim the pickup tube towards the center and capture prob another 2 quarts, would that be worth it? OR should I just stop worrying?!?!?
OP
OP
I took some of your advice.
I bought a TD4 off amazon for $36. It came with a 25A SSR and a heatsink.
I also bought a PT100 RTD prob for $10.
These items should come today!
I am going to use the TD4 with the RTD probe to control the temp of the HLT for strike and sparge water.
I then will have a switch that will have the TD4 control the BK via manual mode.
OP
OP
I now have my HLT fully figured out on the controller end.
My BK is pretty much fully figured out. Still thinking I will add a RTD probe to it that will connect a XLR port on the controller that will be shared with the HLT RTD for the PID. The PID will be 'calibrated' to the RTD probe that is in the HLT, to give a highly accurate temp. The RTD in the BK will basically be used for cooling. If its off a few degrees it doesn't bother me. I may put this item off til the future too to save some dough.
I am now pondering a way to monitor (NOT REGULATE, AT THIS P.I.T.) the temps of my MLT. I'm wanting to have a constant temp monitor of the mash temp. Thinking like some sort of PID with a prob placed in a thermowell deep into the grain bed.
For this I have a few ideas, with pros/cons of course.
STC1000. I have a few of these. Love them for fermentation and fridge temp control. Would one be accurate enough for mash temps though? Like this idea due to cheapness, and I see that have a F* version now.
Some other cheaper PID that has been thermocouple options to use a K or RTD type. Suggestions?
Both of these options would include a thermowell. Probably thru the lid of the MLT so I dont have to worry about stirring into a fragile temp probe during dough in.
My BK is pretty much fully figured out. Still thinking I will add a RTD probe to it that will connect a XLR port on the controller that will be shared with the HLT RTD for the PID. The PID will be 'calibrated' to the RTD probe that is in the HLT, to give a highly accurate temp. The RTD in the BK will basically be used for cooling. If its off a few degrees it doesn't bother me. I may put this item off til the future too to save some dough.
I am now pondering a way to monitor (NOT REGULATE, AT THIS P.I.T.) the temps of my MLT. I'm wanting to have a constant temp monitor of the mash temp. Thinking like some sort of PID with a prob placed in a thermowell deep into the grain bed.
For this I have a few ideas, with pros/cons of course.
STC1000. I have a few of these. Love them for fermentation and fridge temp control. Would one be accurate enough for mash temps though? Like this idea due to cheapness, and I see that have a F* version now.
Some other cheaper PID that has been thermocouple options to use a K or RTD type. Suggestions?
Both of these options would include a thermowell. Probably thru the lid of the MLT so I dont have to worry about stirring into a fragile temp probe during dough in.
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