My beers are ok, but not great...

[Reindeer]

I've been homebrewing for a little over a year, brewed 14 batches so far. None of them have been bad (except a chocolate coffee stout, apparently you can add too much coffee...) but none of them have been what I'd consider great. I'd say they all taste fine until I compare it to a similar "professionally brewed" beer. I'm not sure I can really characterize whats wrong with them, they're just not anything I'd ever get really excited about. Everything I've done has been extract based. I was thinking maybe its the extract thats the issue, and going to all grain would give me that little extra something I'm missing, but lately I've been thinking its something with my brewing techniques that could be introducing some off flavors and thats what I'm picking up. Specifically I'm thinking my beer is getting oxygenated during transfer to the secondary of the bottling bucket. I'm careful to not slosh it around too much, but it seems like the syphon introduces a fair amount of air, especially when first pumping it.

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to get some opinions on what I might be missing. I know this would be a lot easier if I could describe what the beer tastes like accurately.

 

[MikeHNF]

How do you control your fermentation temps? From what I have read, the number one thing a new brewer needs to get right, besides sanitation, is keeping the yeast in the "bingo" zone.

 

[Gear101]

Controlling the different temps all the way through the process can give you a more desired end product. But the ferm temp is very important, made a world of difference when I got a ferm chamber. CHEERS.

 

[Taylormade]

A lot of folks will also tell you to skip secondary and just leave it in primary for another week or two to let it settle. I tried that on my last two batches and now they're carbonating in the keezer. I haven't tried either yet as I'm trying to be patient and let them carbonate over the next week rather than forcing 30#s on them for 24 hours and then pouring at normal levels.

 

[Conman13]

Going to a full batch boil with wort chiller and doing a partial mash gave me a big boost over the typical stove top extract brew method. I'm now an all grain brewer...

Keeping primary fermentation cool (ambient temp low to mid 60's) is also very important for most ales.

Try some different yeast strains and recipe styles.

Let you beer sit in primary for 3 weeks instead of the typical 7-10 days in primary then 2 weeks in secondary.

Where do you get your recipes, grains? Try some kits from Northern Brewer or Austin Homebrew Supply. Every time I've done a kit from them, it's been good.

 

[RM-MN]

The things I consider important in making good beer are:
1. Fermentation temperature. Start low, ramp up to finish.
2. Pitch rate. Make sure you pitch enough yeast so they do the job easily.
3. Recipe. You can't make good beer from a poor recipe.
4. Ingredients. Stale ingredients make stale beer.

 

[Darwin18]

Have you submitted any of your beers to be judged to get feedback? Usually the judges can pick out specific off-flavors and give you recommendations on how to improve your beer. Many people brew award winning extract beers so all-grain probably isn't the answer. If you could better describe your off-flavor, someone here might be able to identify it for you.

 

[LovesIPA]

The things I consider important in making good beer are:
1. Fermentation temperature. Start low, ramp up to finish.
2. Pitch rate. Make sure you pitch enough yeast so they do the job easily.
3. Recipe. You can't make good beer from a poor recipe.
4. Ingredients. Stale ingredients make stale beer.

I would add water profile (i.e. mineral content of brewing water) to that list as well.

 

[flars]

I've been homebrewing for a little over a year, brewed 14 batches so far. None of them have been bad (except a chocolate coffee stout, apparently you can add too much coffee...) but none of them have been what I'd consider great. I'd say they all taste fine until I compare it to a similar "professionally brewed" beer. I'm not sure I can really characterize whats wrong with them, they're just not anything I'd ever get really excited about. Everything I've done has been extract based. I was thinking maybe its the extract thats the issue, and going to all grain would give me that little extra something I'm missing, but lately I've been thinking its something with my brewing techniques that could be introducing some off flavors and thats what I'm picking up. Specifically I'm thinking my beer is getting oxygenated during transfer to the secondary of the bottling bucket. I'm careful to not slosh it around too much, but it seems like the syphon introduces a fair amount of air, especially when first pumping it.

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to get some opinions on what I might be missing. I know this would be a lot easier if I could describe what the beer tastes like accurately.

Give us the details on one of your brews. We can look up the recipe. Just need to know what you did to follow the recipe. The yeast used and how you handled it to pitching. Time to get the wort to pitching temperature and your wort temperature at pitching. The fermentation temperature during the first few days and the time in primary.

 

[homebrewmike]

Consistency with all of my temps (mash, sparge, and fermentation) and I guess you could say consistency with everyting in my brewing process have helped me tremendously. I even have the same music playlist that I have to listen to on brewday.(That's more of a superstitious thing) I have a routine and it shows when I vary from it, but that's just me.

 

[Zoidberg]

I would guess it is mostly because you do extract brewing, I didn't like any of my brews a whole lot until I did partial mashing. The extracts were ok but not great like you said. Research partial mashing with late extract additions, when extract gets boiled for 60 full minutes it basically gets scorched and gives off very unfavorable flavors.

 

[Yooper]

Have you submitted any of your beers to be judged to get feedback? Usually the judges can pick out specific off-flavors and give you recommendations on how to improve your beer. Many people brew award winning extract beers so all-grain probably isn't the answer. If you could better describe your off-flavor, someone here might be able to identify it for you.

That is what I was going to suggest. Entering a BJCP sanctioned competition can really help with unbiased opinions on your beer.

There are some things that can make beers shine over others. Things that were already mentioned, like controlling fermentation temperatures strictly and pitching enough yeast at the proper temperature is one quick way to make better than average beer. Freshness of ingredients (no canned extract) is another important thing to pay attention to really enhance the flavor of the beer. Water is important also, as beer is 90% water. Good tasting water with relatively low mineralization can make an extract beer really shine.

 

[bajaedition]

Make notes
compare notes
change 1 thing at a time

develop good techniques

Do not take advice without trying to experiment with it, to much bad advice out there

At the beginning level temp control of fermentation, sanitation, making sure all residues are rinsed from equipment, the basics need to be developed. then start to ramp up equipment. It all comes in time. Just remember to take notes and analyse any change to see what happens

just like anything else, there is a learning curve, how much effort you put into that curve is as good as you will get

 

[jonmohno]

Its a lot of variables and those can go from good to great beer. You could try changing your water, maybe do a partial mash or a BIAB to get some different malt character as well as maybe try some new liquid yeast and make starters. A lot of things are important, like fresh ingredients,water,oxygenation,ferm temps. Even as far as rinsing your sanitized bottles with preboiled water as a rinse maybe. I really would suggest doing a mini paritial mash BIAB, it wasn't until I started doing this that I started seing my beers get better and I may still think that Ive made a lot of better beers with a partial mash than some of my all grain batches. Ive made some better extract batches as well compared to some all grain batches Ive done and it can be done. And they now have an even better variety of malt extracts now which is a nice thing.

Another thing to consider is your favorate commercial beers, find out what is in it and start brewing with those ingredience you like, chances are there is a clone or their website even lists whats in it most of the time. Ive seen a pattern with some of my favorate and I like to brew with some of those particular ingredients/hops/yeast often.

 

[Marc77]

I would guess it is mostly because you do extract brewing, I didn't like any of my brews a whole lot until I did partial mashing. The extracts were ok but not great like you said. Research partial mashing with late extract additions, when extract gets boiled for 60 full minutes it basically gets scorched and gives off very unfavorable flavors.

Extract beer can be and sometimes are better than all grain beers. You're mistaken about your extract comment. When you add your extract you have to stir continuously until it's all dissolved. At that point it is no different than wort from all grain. If you're not stirring and clumps of extract sit on the bottom of the pot then you can scorch and get off flavors.

I've had some phenomenal extract and all grain beers. I hate saying this and I don't mean it in a condescending way. But you need to do some reading. John Palmer's "How to Brew" book blew my head off and made me want to know and read everything about beer. http://www.howtobrew.com/ You can even read it online for free. It changed how I brewed and it also let me brew more confidently.

If I'm throwing out some guesses though...
- Make sure your bottles are cleaned and sanitized, there is a difference.

- When transferring the wort make sure the hose stays below the surface and don't even let it hit the side to start with. When the beer hits the side of a carboy during a move to the secondary or bottling bucket it introduces air which at that point will oxidize your beer given time.

- Get a process going. For me it's setting everything out, making sure I've got all ingredients measured. Then I clean and sanitize, get my water boiling (when I did extract) and do a once over on my ingredients to make sure I've got everything covered.

- Smack the smack pack or hydrate the yeast several hours before pitching. Better yet find a calculator online and make a starter! It'll do wonders and it's awesome to see fermentation the same day you brewed. Which leads into my next point...

- Makes sure you have enough yeast.

- Don't shock your yeast. Get the wort down to the temp that you'll be pitching your yeast and then make sure that your starter (insert smack pack or dry yeast otherwise) is as close to the same temp.

- Ferment in the right temps. Don't listen to those that say low to mid 60's...know your yeast! I'm using a 1099 that has a range of 64-75 degrees. So while mid 60's would make for very long fermentation in the low 60's would keep the yeast dormant or extremely slow. Another exmaple...Wyeast Belgian yeast has a temp range of 70-95 degrees so you'd get zero fermentation in the low to mid 60's.

I know that's a book but there's some ideas at least.

 

[Experibrew]

You mentioned oxygen imparting, which leads me to believe you feel your beers may have gone flat or have a less effervescent mouthfeel? Flavors you are getting? Sour pucker or weirdly fruity? Popcorn/butterscotch?

Are you adding hops at the wrong times? Bitter to aroma outcomes are subjective, but most of the recipes you see in kits are done specifically for the reason that the end product is tested and was good enough to sell. If your gravity is too high at the point of adding hops, you'll have a harder time getting those Bittering hops to come through. Hops also help in fermentation and bacteria thwarting.

Everyone here is correct. Sanitizing and Cleaning are totally job one in homebrewing to ensure bacteria or other non desired flavoring agents have no potential for introduction. In paranoia about this, I even use Everclear in my air locks.

Don't take any shortcuts. Do wort chill quickly. Don't overuse a yeast cake. Start fresh, eliminate the obvious from your own controls. If you or anyone else is going to drink it, watch every step. I totally understand going through all of the motions to end up with a bad outcome is not ideal and hurts the wallet, too.

Extracts have come a long way in the past few years, (Maris Otter and specialized IPA blends) but agreed on the comment about fresh ingredients if you are sticking to what you know before going with grain only. Use a supplier that you know regularly turns this stock. Watch the yeast date and give your yeasts if in a wyeast packet plenty of time to generate activity before pitching; same with hydrating dry yeasts.

Temperature is a big factor as folks have stated earlier. Let us know the flavors you are getting. If butterscotch and popcorn, I assume it is too warm where the carboy sits. Near a furnace vent?

Time & Eyes = Last in my view of factors. Hurry up and wait is the art to a lot of successful homebrewing, but watching the magic every day is a must. Don't set and forget and expect to have everything turn out. If your carboy is in a dark area of the basement at times when you see it, but unbeknownst to you it has occasional rays of sunshine during the day blasting down on it.... Etc.

This is just a long list speculating of potential could go wrongs. But, think of each step and replicate one unique recipe for a while to see how things change for you in the same or different environmental controls. That's enough rant from me. Enjoy the hobby and do not get discouraged.

 

[Zoidberg]

Extract beer can be and sometimes are better than all grain beers. You're mistaken about your extract comment. When you add your extract you have to stir continuously until it's all dissolved. At that point it is no different than wort from all grain. If you're not stirring and clumps of extract sit on the bottom of the pot then you can scorch and get off flavors.

I've had some phenomenal extract and all grain beers. I hate saying this and I don't mean it in a condescending way. But you need to do some reading. John Palmer's "How to Brew" book blew my head off and made me want to know and read everything about beer. http://www.howtobrew.com/ You can even read it online for free. It changed how I brewed and it also let me brew more confidently.

I respectfully disagree with this. I've had many extract beers, my own and others and can always detect a taste not present in all-grain beers. This may be a personal preference thing and the differences are not as bad to you but may be to me and OP. I'm glad you enjoy them but the biggest turning point in my beers was going from extract to partial mash with late additions and still suggest OP tries that to see if it makes a difference.

To me it's like comparing lunch meat that has been processed to a fresh roasted turkey or roast beef.

The rest of this post I totally agree with.

 

[Reindeer]

I love this forum :rockin:

The things I consider important in making good beer are:
1. Fermentation temperature. Start low, ramp up to finish.
2. Pitch rate. Make sure you pitch enough yeast so they do the job easily.
3. Recipe. You can't make good beer from a poor recipe.
4. Ingredients. Stale ingredients make stale beer.

1)Fermentation temp is something that might be a factor. I don't have any sort of control over this, but I do all my fermentation in my basement which is pretty consistantly at 68 deg.

2)Other than the first few batches I used a yeast starter. I'm assuming I'm pitching pleanty of yeast.

3)I've used several different recipes, and brewed many different styles, from Belgian Strongs to Witbiers to IPA's, some just complete kits and some are based on recipes I've found here and other places. Some turned out better than others, but they all seem to be missing something, or off a little bit.

4)I get all my ingredients from Northern Brewer or Midwest Supplies as I live within 20 minutes of either of them. I assume them to be relatively fresh.

It was also mentioned water quality, I've always used spring or RO water I purchase just for brewing, so I don't think thats it.

I think I'm going to do some research on better controlling fermentation temps. I don't really have the space or ability to have a separate fridge dedicated to brewing though. Other than that, maybe I just need to jump into all grain.

The suggestion of having my beer judged by someone who actually knows what its supposed to taste like and can give me accurate critiquing is probably the best advice however. Maybe I'm just being to critical of my homebrews.

 

[Marc77]

Temperature is a big factor as folks have stated earlier. Let us know the flavors you are getting. If butterscotch and popcorn, I assume it is too warm where the carboy sits. Near a furnace vent?

Butter/butterscotch taste or a popcorn smell could be due to an under pitched beer too. I'm sure you know experibrew but for the orginal poster...during that lag time extra diacetyl is produced and sometimes it's too much for the yeast to eat up in the tail ends of fermentation. As you said experibrew, there's a whole laundry list of problems.

Yet another reason to explain why you feel your beers are "average". What makes them average?

 

[bajaedition]

I respectfully disagree with this. I've had many extract beers, my own and others and can always detect a taste not present in all-grain beers.

problem with a statement like this is you will soon be proved wrong

I do understand that most brewers doing extracts are beginners, but I know of some really good extract brewers that constantly win contest and you can not tell they are extracts.

 

[Marc77]

I respectfully disagree with this. I've had many extract beers, my own and others and can always detect a taste not present in all-grain beers. This may be a personal preference thing and the differences are not as bad to you but may be to me and OP. I'm glad you enjoy them but the biggest turning point in my beers was going from extract to partial mash with late additions and still suggest OP tries that to see if it makes a difference.

To me it's like comparing lunch meat that has been processed to a fresh roasted turkey or roast beef.

The rest of this post I totally agree with.

We're not exactly breaking new ground (extract vs all grain). Ha! Everyone's taste buds are different but something else that could be affecting it is water chemistry. With that said if it's present in extract it'd be even more pronounced in all grain. But I've seen extract beers beat out all grain beers in competition. To me a good beer is a good beer.

My personal preference had I know all that I know now is to go partial mash and be done with it. You can have more control over your brewing but don't have to buy all the equipment that all grain needs.

 

[Darwin18]

1)Fermentation temp is something that might be a factor. I don't have any sort of control over this, but I do all my fermentation in my basement which is pretty consistantly at 68 deg.

How exactly do you know that the temperature in your basement is 68F? Are you just setting the thermostat or just observing that temperature? Your basement just like any room in your home is going to experience temperature swings, sometimes quite wide, during the day and night. If you're just relying on ambient temperatures then you really don't have control of your fermentation temperatures. Focusing on this would have a very large impact on the quality and consistency of your beer.

You may not have room for chest freezer with dedicated temperature controller, but surely you can find room for a swamp cooler?

Focusing on controlling your temperatures, especially early in fermentation, will make a huge difference.

The suggestion of having my beer judged by someone who actually knows what its supposed to taste like and can give me accurate critiquing is probably the best advice however. Maybe I'm just being to critical of my homebrews.

Just try to take the criticism and feedback constructively. If you're sending a beer that you know has a flaw, you shouldn't expect to score very well. Sometimes you get non-BJCP judges or new judges that aren't very good at giving you feedback, but usually the judges will be able to pick out your off-flavor and offer recommendations on how to address it.

 

[Reindeer]

- When transferring the wort make sure the hose stays below the surface and don't even let it hit the side to start with. When the beer hits the side of a carboy during a move to the secondary or bottling bucket it introduces air which at that point will oxidize your beer given time.

This might be a factor too. I think I'm being to sloppy with my transfers. I'll focus on that on my next brew without really changing anything else and see if I get a better result.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

My first 5 beers were extract, and I didn't like most of them. I used LME for all 5, from a LHBS that didn't move much stock. I didn't realize this at the time, but I'd guess that was the problem. They'd buy it in bulk, and prepack (and not too carefully) it into tubs of 6 - 8 lbs. Then, it would sit on the shelves. Perhaps for long periods of time.

These beers all had a common 'off' flavor, I'd guess this is the dreaded 'twang'.

I've also had some great extract beers that other's have brewed. These folks had a process they liked, recipes they'd tweaked, and made a nice brew.

I think if you are careful with all parts of the brew day / fermentation, have a good recipe, and get high quality ingredients, you should be able to produce fantastic beer using extract. A high quality extract...

For now, since the extract brew day doesn't have too many knobs to tweak, focus on fermentation. Control the temperatures best you can, give a healthy pitch of yeast. Maybe try a little starter and pitch at high krausen, that always kicks things off with a bang.

How about you try a proven recipe? Jamil's Classic Styles is a great place to start, and the recipes are written for extract brewers. I have made many recipes in that book (AG), and he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

 

[UberHasselhoff]

So I was in a similar situation: started brewing about a year ago, several months later I made about ten batches of OK, but below my expectations, extract beer. I didn't have the ability to really say what was off about it, but it was off. Using this forum I went through all the steps above and finally I have beer that I am not embarrassed to give to my friends. It's getting better.

Another thing I think that helped was when to add the extract. I exclusively used Northern Brewer extract from the store near my house, so freshness was never an issue. I found when I added all the extract for the full length of the boil, the resulting beer was darker than the recipe and "harsher." I know that's not very specific, but that's the best way I could explain it. This happened even though the box recipes I followed stated to add the extract at the start of the boil. Try adding half at the beginning and half during the last few minutes of the boil.

Also, it's worth trying dry yeast. No starter required and a 11g pack is usually enough for most average beers. Less worry about underpitching at this point the better.

Good luck and hang in there.

 

[Yooper]

I respectfully disagree with this. I've had many extract beers, my own and others and can always detect a taste not present in all-grain beers. This may be a personal preference thing and the differences are not as bad to you but may be to me and OP. I'm glad you enjoy them but the biggest turning point in my beers was going from extract to partial mash with late additions and still suggest OP tries that to see if it makes a difference.

To me it's like comparing lunch meat that has been processed to a fresh roasted turkey or roast beef.

The rest of this post I totally agree with.

I'm a very experienced certified BJCP judge, and I can't tell a well made extract/partial mash beer from an all-grain beer. It turns out that some Best of Show winners, when they showed the recipe, were extract based. Perhaps some of extract beers that had an "extract taste" to you were brewed by inexperienced brewers, or where otherwise lacking. Bad beer is bad beer, of course. I've had excellent extract beers in competition, and terrible AG beers. So I doubt that this is the OP's issue.

1)Fermentation temp is something that might be a factor. I don't have any sort of control over this, but I do all my fermentation in my basement which is pretty consistantly at 68 deg.

One thing to note is that if your basement is 68 degrees, active fermentation can cause the inside temperature to be as much as 10 degrees higher than the ambient temperature. And over 68-70 degrees is too warm for most ale yeast strains. Ideally, most ales would be fermented at 65-68 degrees (fermentation temperature, not ambient temperature!) for the best flavor.

They have cheap stick-on thermometers, like aquarium thermometers, so you can monitor the fermenter temperature if you're not doing that.

 

[jonmohno]

Some people can taste a twang with extract. I haven't but then again after my first few batches of partial mash I really have not made many more extract batches since. Its simply just more expensive. That said, Ive almost got a Mr. Beer Diablo kit just to see what that is like but it is even more expensive than buying extract hops and good yeast. I still may brew it just to see how it turns out,but I feel Im wasting my money per beer wise. It would be a super fast brew day though. I can even get it semi-locally here. Its a gamble how long its really been sitting there though.

 

[Reindeer]

I have those stick on thermometers on all my carboys, they stay at 68-70 deg. I should have specified that earlier. I wasn't actually referring to the ambient air temp, but the reading on the carboy.

With my next batch I'm going to focus on reducing or eliminating oxidation, and after that figure out a way to control fermentation temps.


Thanks for all the replies. Lots of helpful information.

 

[Zoidberg]

Another thing I think that helped was when to add the extract. I exclusively used Northern Brewer extract from the store near my house, so freshness was never an issue. I found when I added all the extract for the full length of the boil, the resulting beer was darker than the recipe and "harsher." I know that's not very specific, but that's the best way I could explain it. This happened even though the box recipes I followed stated to add the extract at the start of the boil. Try adding half at the beginning and half during the last few minutes of the boil.

Agreed, like I said there is something off beers when extract is boiled for 60 min.

Marc, I agree with some extract recipes being better than some all grain recipes but 2 versions of the same recipe and I'm betting most people will pick the all-grain. If thats not true than how is it worth it to even do all-grain?

I'm in the same boat as you as far as limitations with set up. My set up consists of a 5 gallon pot, a 4 gallon pot and 2 buckets for sparging, one with holes drilled in bottom and a SS screen over it and a 6.5g under it with a spigot, effectively imitating a false bottom.

I can do all grain 4 gallon batches which is what I mostly do and 5 gallon batches in all grain if gravity is around 1.055 or lower using top off distilled water.

I heat water if 4gallon pot, mash in 5 then heat sparge water up in 4gallon and sparge through bucket system with pouring and boil again in 5gallon. System is very rigged but works well with 77% efficiency now that I have solid system down.

Brewers on a budget just need to be creative.

 

[Yooper]

I have those stick on thermometers on all my carboys, they stay at 68-70 deg. I should have specified that earlier. I wasn't actually referring to the ambient air temp, but the reading on the carboy.

With my next batch I'm going to focus on reducing or eliminating oxidation, and after that figure out a way to control fermentation temps.


Thanks for all the replies. Lots of helpful information.

Try cooling your wort to 62-63 degrees and then pitching your yeast. Allow it to get no higher than 68 for most yeast strains (some, like English strains can be better at a much lower temperature) and that should eliminate any off flavors from fermentation issues. If you can hold most ale yeast strains to 62-66, that generally is about perfect.

 

[bajaedition]

I did a few extracts, went all grain

because of a move, had to sell out my half of an allgrain system and went back to extract

difference was I was doing full boils by now and knew a hell of a lot more about brewing than my earlier extract days

not only that but I had developed techniques I had not had in my first extract phase.

I now do some beers just from extract because I want to

 

[Marc77]

Agreed, like I said there is something off beers when extract is boiled for 60 min.

Marc, I agree with some extract recipes being better than some all grain recipes but 2 versions of the same recipe and I'm betting most people will pick the all-grain. If thats not true than how is it worth it to even do all-grain?

I'm in the same boat as you as far as limitations with set up. My set up consists of a 5 gallon pot, a 4 gallon pot and 2 buckets for sparging, one with holes drilled in bottom and a SS screen over it and a 6.5g under it with a spigot, effectively imitating a false bottom.

I can do all grain 4 gallon batches which is what I mostly do and 5 gallon batches in all grain if gravity is around 1.055 or lower using top off distilled water.

I heat water if 4gallon pot, mash in 5 then heat sparge water up in 4gallon and sparge through bucket system with pouring and boil again in 5gallon. System is very rigged but works well with 77% efficiency now that I have solid system down.

Brewers on a budget just need to be creative.

Since I'm on the devil's advocate side...

My brother in law has a friend that brews all grain. Over a few home brews people kept saying that they liked mine better than his (other home brewer). Mine was an extract and he looked down his nose at extract. So we agreed we'd find a recipe, put it into beer smith for extract and all grain, make the beer and then let the people there decide which was better. It was kind of fun and hey...I got to make more beer which...go team! Fast forward three months and I was the resounding winner.

If done right I can guarantee that no one will taste the difference between all grain and extract. Just like we're warning people to use fresh extract you wouldn't use bad grain would you?

The main reason people go to all grain is that they want full control over every step of the brew session. I went to all grain because I wanted to know more about the process and be able to control exactly what my final product would taste like. You simply aren't going to get that with extract.

Another reason people go to all grain is that like you and I we get tired of paying absorbent prices for extract when the grain cost is cheaper (once the equipment is set up).

Like you said, when done on a budget we've got to be inventive and thrifty. I've raided my old desktop hard drive for magnets, a computer fan and bought a "box" to make a stir plate. I've also used hose clamps over a 3 inch section and drilled a hole in the middle of that 3 inch section and inserted 4 inch length of tubing to use a venturi effect for aerating my wort. But when it comes down to it my 20.5 gallon bayou classic and 70 quart colemann cooler with a home made manifold as a mash tun let me control every aspect of my beer making.

Still need to make that fermentation chamber (will be done when my first born comes in less than a month!) and get a HLT. But then I'll want a single tier brew stand and that needs chugger pumps...I KNOW you feel my pain in wanting more equipment.

 

[Zoidberg]

Indeed I want more equipment, always a forever haha. I might need to do an experiment a simple single grain recipe, something light and an extract equivalent. Same brewer and blind tastes would give more validity to extract being as good as all-grain, I'll write something up if I do this experiment.

I'm betting you are a much better homebrew than your brother in laws friend or you wouldn't get everyone agreeing your extract was better and inversely I'm betting if you did the all-grain and him the extract everyone would still prefer yours.

It'll probably be a long time before I upgrade beyond 3-5 gallon batch systems though. I like brewing every week and already have more beer than I can handle or give away (almost).

Homemade stir plate is my next project, I just need to get a new computer so I can just breakdown my old desktop I don't anymore anyways but can't bring myself to dismantle it yet. Thanks for info.

 

[LovesIPA]

I'm betting you are a much better homebrew than your brother in laws friend or you wouldn't get everyone agreeing your extract was better and inversely I'm betting if you did the all-grain and him the extract everyone would still prefer yours.

Exactly. When you change every variable in the equation and get a different answer, you can't point to one variable and say, "Found it!"

 

[Marc77]

Indeed I want more equipment, always a forever haha. I might need to do an experiment a simple single grain recipe, something light and an extract equivalent. Same brewer and blind tastes would give more validity to extract being as good as all-grain, I'll write something up if I do this experiment.

I'm betting you are a much better homebrew than your brother in laws friend or you wouldn't get everyone agreeing your extract was better and inversely I'm betting if you did the all-grain and him the extract everyone would still prefer yours.

It'll probably be a long time before I upgrade beyond 3-5 gallon batch systems though. I like brewing every week and already have more beer than I can handle or give away (almost).

Homemade stir plate is my next project, I just need to get a new computer so I can just breakdown my old desktop I don't anymore anyways but can't bring myself to dismantle it yet. Thanks for info.

Very well could be. I'm more meticulous about my processes than he is...which is probably the problem for him. So yeah, we could switch it around and the result might be the same. Actually...that's an interesting proposition. Apollo vs Rocky...fight #2!!

Here's the main question, would you use the same recipe or use a different one? My thought is use a different one because if we came back to the table with the same beer everyone would probably guess that we just flip flopped extract/all grain.

 

[agrazela]

Back to the OP's issues...

I do agree with everyone who said that your #1 improvement is going to be controlling ferment temperature. Do that first!

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see it asked: are you letting your beers age out / bottle condition long enough? A bottled beer is typically gonna be carbed up in 3-4 weeks after bottling...but that doesn't necessarily mean it's ready to serve. Maybe you're just tasting "green" beer?

 

[Reindeer]

Just a follow up to this:

I've done a couple batches since I started this thread, and I've been careful to minimize oxidation by changing a couple techniques, and I've also started my fermentation temps lower and kept them lower, especially in the early part of the fermentation.

So far, I'd say the difference is positive. I'm not sure how to describe the off flavor my earlier beers had, but its not noticeable anymore.

I've had some issues with overcarbonation, but I've resolved that, again with the help of this forum.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[agrazela]

Good to hear you're moving in the right direction.

I've had some issues with overcarbonation, but I've resolved that, again with the help of this forum.

Please elaborate on overcarbonation issues and how you've resolved them.

 

[Flipadelphia]

Glad to hear.

 

[Reindeer]

Good to hear you're moving in the right direction.



Please elaborate on overcarbonation issues and how you've resolved them.

Basically, I was adding enough sugar for 5 gallons but only bottling 4.5 gal or less. I was just adding sugar based on a Northern Brewer recipe for 5 gal, someone here pointed me to a formula to figure out the correct amount based on actual amount bottled.