My beer comes out way too bitter

[Gameface]

Not really, it smells really nice - really good aroma! It just seems to be the taste.

I raised this subject recently on another forum and someone suggested it's because I'm using centennial and columbus together which can create really harsh bitterness: http://www.brewuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=49664

I ask because as far as the temp swings go a hot fermentation can lead to many off flavors. Too high and it can lead to fusel alcohols, which are very harsh.

The other question is to try to understand what you mean by concrete. I don't think of concrete as being bitter. Honestly I don't think of concrete as a flavor. The flavors I asked about would indicate chlorine or chloramines in your water that produce a very unpleasant flavor and aroma that many describe as plastic or band aid like.

 

[jceg316]

I ask because as far as the temp swings go a hot fermentation can lead to many off flavors. Too high and it can lead to fusel alcohols, which are very harsh.

The other question is to try to understand what you mean by concrete. I don't think of concrete as being bitter. Honestly I don't think of concrete as a flavor. The flavors I asked about would indicate chlorine or chloramines in your water that produce a very unpleasant flavor and aroma that many describe as plastic or band aid like.

I realise I only answered half your question. It sits in my garage which has no heating, so it remains pretty cool. I think the packet says ideal temperatures for that yeast are 15-22*C. My garage probably sits in that range during the day but during the night I image drops to single digits.

 

[OswaldvW]

I think it might be worth getting your water tested so that you know if you need to adjust your water.

I recently had my water tested this summer because I was getting a lot of harsh bitter qualities from my pale ales and California common beers.

Once I knew I had high bicarbonates, I was able to adjust my mashing water and get smoother beers.

Also, if you are brewing exclusively extract, gurus like John Palmer suggest using RO or distilled water, since the extract manufacturers have already adjusted the water to make the extracts.

Just something to think about.

 

[jceg316]

I think it might be worth getting your water tested so that you know if you need to adjust your water.

I recently had my water tested this summer because I was getting a lot of harsh bitter qualities from my pale ales and California common beers.

Once I knew I had high bicarbonates, I was able to adjust my mashing water and get smoother beers.

Also, if you are brewing exclusively extract, gurus like John Palmer suggest using RO or distilled water, since the extract manufacturers have already adjusted the water to make the extracts.

Just something to think about.

Was it just your pales and Californians this happened to? My lagers and abbey beers have come out really well and don't suffer from this (so far have only made these three types).

I got in contact with a professional brewer who suggests it may be due to oxidising the wort at the wrong time. This would make sense as we did oxidise the wort when it was still hot.

 

[OswaldvW]

No, but the hoppier the beer, the harsher the bitterness.

As I said, once I was able to get a better mash pH, the better tasting my beers.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Arrheinous]

What sort of water are you using? Have you gotten it tested? The increased perception of hop bitterness and the 'concrete' taste makes it seem like sulfates are to blame. Try using distilled water or a filter system.

 

[jceg316]

I managed to find my water company's water report of my area: https://www.affinitywater.co.uk/docs/water-quality/TV053.pdf

As I'm still very much at the amateur end of the scale I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for. I have read up about water quality but at this stage it mostly goes over my head.

 

[Arrheinous]

That's a great looking report. My city would probably just send you a link to the Wikipedia page on water...

Your water has sulfate at 50 mg/L (50 ppm) and chloride at 56 mg/L on average (56 ppm). The balance of these two is apparently important but yours is at 1:1 which shouldn't cause trouble.

 

[jceg316]

That's a great looking report. My city would probably just send you a link to the Wikipedia page on water...

Your water has sulfate at 50 mg/L (50 ppm) and chloride at 56 mg/L on average (56 ppm). The balance of these two is apparently important but yours is at 1:1 which shouldn't cause trouble.

Water profile is still something I'm trying to get my head around, but there are a few aspects of water which need to be considered. In another forum someone mentioned that there is too much calcium carbonate and bicarbonate which would extract tannins from the grains.

On top of this, the mix of Centennial and Columbus creates quite a harsh bitterness, and it might be better to replace Centennial with Galaxy or Citra which produces a smoother hoppiness.

 

[Arrheinous]

Citra or Mosaic would be good. Galaxy and the NZ hops might be a bit too different to figure out what's going wrong.

Centennial + Cascade work very well together. IIRC Centennial doesn't play well with high AA hops.

 

[chickypad]

That alkalinity of 331 is off the charts, and I suspect the root of your problem. I would not use that water to brew with, at least not without cutting it significantly with RO water.

 

[jceg316]

That alkalinity of 331 is off the charts, and I suspect the root of your problem. I would not use that water to brew with, at least not without cutting it significantly with RO water.

Thanks for taking the time to look. Someone else here said my alkalinity is fine, but in another forum they said I had too much bicarbonate and calcium carbonate, which would back up what you're saying. It's very confusing and I'm trying to teach myself water chemistry so I can make my own opinions as well.

Anyway, in another forum, I was given the advice to boil half the mash water as this will get rid of a lot of carbonate/bicarbonate and add in the other half. Is there something I can add to the water/mash to neutralise it?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for taking the time to look. Someone else here said my alkalinity is fine, but in another forum they said I had too much bicarbonate and calcium carbonate, which would back up what you're saying. It's very confusing and I'm trying to teach myself water chemistry so I can make my own opinions as well.

Anyway, in another forum, I was given the advice to boil half the mash water as this will get rid of a lot of carbonate/bicarbonate and add in the other half. Is there something I can add to the water/mash to neutralise it?

You should boil all of it, and then siphon off of the precipitate.

There are other things you can do, like add acid, to help out. Your best bet is probably lime softening.

My alkalinity is 228, and I ended up just buying my own RO system because it's a pain to do that each brew day.

There is a lot of water information in the Brew Science area of this forum, and I think that you'd find that very helpful.

 

[jceg316]

You should boil all of it, and then siphon off of the precipitate.

There are other things you can do, like add acid, to help out. Your best bet is probably lime softening.

My alkalinity is 228, and I ended up just buying my own RO system because it's a pain to do that each brew day.

There is a lot of water information in the Brew Science area of this forum, and I think that you'd find that very helpful.

I think adding some sort of acidic substance would work best at this stage. I just need to work out how much of what.

I'll check out that area of the site, thanks.

 

[chickypad]

I would also check out the Bru'n water knowledge site. Lots of good info and you can also download the Bru'n water program. Martin is a water expert who frequents this forum, especially the brew science area that Yooper mentioned.

 

[jceg316]

So, after months of trying to make a decent IPA i can finally put this to sleep! I did 2 batches side by side: same recipe bit different water. One was using water I conditioned from a calculator, the other using Asda Smart Price water which I read is great water for IPAs (and at 9.5p per litre it's not exactly breaking the bank).

They both came out amazing! I was so happy. The Asda water had a slightly bolder hop character but it could be because that was dry hopped in a plastic bucket, and the conditioned water was in a glass demi, meaning the former had more surface area to the hops.

If anyone is interested I can post specifics, water profiles, calculators used etc.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[jceg316]

So, after months of trying to make a decent IPA i can finally put this to sleep! I did 2 batches side by side: same recipe bit different water. One was using water I conditioned from a calculator, the other using Asda Smart Price water which I read is great water for IPAs (and at 9.5p per litre it's not exactly breaking the bank).

They both came out amazing! I was so happy. The Asda water had a slightly bolder hop character but it could be because that was dry hopped in a plastic bucket, and the conditioned water was in a glass demi, meaning the former had more surface area to the hops.

If anyone is interested I can post specifics, water profiles, calculators used etc.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[jceg316]

So, after months of trying to make a decent IPA i can finally put this to sleep! I did 2 batches side by side: same recipe bit different water. One was using water I conditioned from a calculator, the other using Asda Smart Price water which I read is great water for IPAs (and at 9.5p per litre it's not exactly breaking the bank).

They both came out amazing! I was so happy. The Asda water had a slightly bolder hop character but it could be because that was dry hopped in a plastic bucket, and the conditioned water was in a glass demi, meaning the former had more surface area to the hops.

If anyone is interested I can post specifics, water profiles, calculators used etc.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[RM-MN]

Congratulations and thanks for the followup. I'd come to sample and help you critique the product but I'm not a real fan of IPA's so I'll let someone else do that chore.

 

[jceg316]

Congratulations and thanks for the followup. I'd come to sample and help you critique the product but I'm not a real fan of IPA's so I'll let someone else do that chore.

Cheers. Not to worry about it, there are dozens of people here willing to sample it, more for us! It's usually the first thing people say when I tell them I brew.