Must resist calling it "bad" beer

[E_Marquez]

And accept it may still be a bit green,,,,,, man I hope so, or this will be three batches in a row that have turned out subpar.

Two batches brewed 27, 28 July. Bottled 28, 29 AUG, so Day 19 and 20 since going into the in the bottle..

Chilled one bottle of each yesterday (only an hour or so), popped the top, good carb, poured well, nice head.

But taste was off on both... one is a Austin BS Blue Moon clone,

The second a personal recipe, I called JG American IPA.

2.5LB 2-ROW
1/2 LB Amber
1LB Crystal 60L
1/2 LB Munich
6LB Light DME
BRY-97 West Coast Ale
1 oz. Willamette (First Wort Hops)
0.5 oz. Cascade (60 min.)
0.5 oz. Cascade (30 min.)
1.0 oz. Cascade (5 min.)
1.0 oz. Cascade (Flameout)
1.0 oz. Willamette (7-day dry hop)

The blue moon has some off flavor I can not yet identify.. the JG American IPA,,,,well it is malty, but not bad...a bit sweet perhaps

Been chilling at 40deg for 30 hours now... going to try them again as I start brewing a Honey Wheat beer.....

Getting frustrated.....
My very first batch partial grain min mash just 5 months or so ago, brewed with out a care or bit of intelligence in the world, no temp control and fermented on my bathroom counter was GREAT, excellent reviews from others to include the recipe designer.

Next one was full of fusel alcohol , and my fault, bigger beer, fermented at to high a temp. Ok easy fix.. temp control.

Next three....all fermented in a chamber, at the lower end of the specified temp range for yeast used....

One an ale, was beer, ok, but not exciting.
Then we have the two in bottles now... not super promising.

Seems the more I do to brew "right" the farther I get from good beer.

Have a beer fermenting now, about ready for bottling or kegging..... almost afraid to get it out...

 

[AZBeerNut]

Can I ask how fast your process is going? From personal experience, I found that a TON of PATIENCE made all of my beer, much, MUCH better!

What I mean is... I don't touch my primaries for at least a month (much longer for bigger beers). If I'm bottling, I - again - don't touch them for at least a month. Then I throw a couple in the fridge and don't touch them for at least a couple weeks. Brew day to first taste is at LEAST 2.5 months, on everything I do, and the quality of my product has increased explonentially [granted... I'm better at recipes, yeast choices, etc... too...].

Not saying this will work for you... SO much can go into why a beer doesn't turn out the way you expected......... but I tell all newer brewers to write the word, "PATIENCE" with a Sharpie on every major piece of equipment. I've never had anyone come back and tell me anything other than, "Holy *#$^, dude, you were right!"

P.S. - as an example... I brewed a Belgian quad in April; had all the ingredients actually shipped in from Belgium (everything but the water, where I used Spring water and added some key Belgian minerals). Didn't touch the primary until June, when I bottled. Won't touch the bottles until the first week of December... and won't the first one until Christmas; planned my own little gift 8 months in advance! *Granted... this is an extreme example...... but makes the point well. First ingredient in AZBeerNut's brews is always patience...

 

[E_Marquez]

Can I ask how fast your process is going? From personal experience, I found that a TON of PATIENCE made all of my beer, much, MUCH better!

What I mean is... I don't touch my primaries for at least a month (much longer for bigger beers). If I'm bottling, I - again - don't touch them for at least a month. Then I throw a couple in the fridge and don't touch them for at least a couple weeks. Brew day to first taste is at LEAST 2.5 months, on everything I do, and the quality of my product has increased explonentially [granted... I'm better at recipes, yeast choices, etc... too...].

Not saying this will work for you... SO much can go into why a beer doesn't turn out the way you expected......... but I tell all newer brewers to write the word, "PATIENCE" with a Sharpie on every major piece of equipment. I've never had anyone come back and tell me anything other than, "Holy *#$^, dude, you were right!"

The Strong brown ale with fusel alcohol fermented at room temp.. 4 weeks primary, no secondary.. SG was stable at bottling.. 9 weeks in the bottle.. tried one last night... still crap.

Blue moon Clone.. with a very weak taste...like watered down almost... 4 weeks in primary temp controlled, no recipe deviations.. SG was stable at bottling. Three weeks in the bottle

JG American IPA... off taste.. not yet identified...4 weeks 1 day in primary temp controlled SG was stable at bottling. Three weeks in the bottle.

Just tasted both...... not good beer.. need some help ID' what is wrong and will get that later today,,, will post descriptive observations later when I get home.... CRAP is what comes to mind right now.

 

[AZBeerNut]

will post descriptive observations later when I get home.... CRAP is what comes to mind right now.

LOL! Well, I'll look for what else you come up with tonight. Reading your timing, it doesn't seem like you're over-rushing anything. Possible yeast choice issue? Or primary fermentation temperature issue?

 

[ong]

In my experience, beer fermented at too high a temp just doesn't get any better. I just dumped a lot of stuff that suffered from that (the S. English brown was drinkable, since the fruitiness doesn't seem as off for that style).

The Blue Moon clone, being watery and flavorless, on the other hand, sounds like you totally nailed the clone!

 

[Dynachrome]

Malty is - just malty - not what you were aiming for. One of your friends may like it.

I'd be interested to hear what the description is. It's not wet cardboard or plastic taste?

 

[E_Marquez]

LOL! Well, I'll look for what else you come up with tonight. Reading your timing, it doesn't seem like you're over-rushing anything. Possible yeast choice issue? Or primary fermentation temperature issue?

Yest is as prescribed by the recipe provider, proven track record, so this is on me and my process I think.

Temps for the last three batches have been controlled in a Keezer. Im very confident in that I have fermented them at stable and a temp well within the desired range for yeast strain. (lower end is my temp set point, accounting for the heat generation of fermentation that still puts the wort turned crappy beer in a good range)

The only thing that changed is......my water... about the same time I brewed the two batches in bottles now, my CO-OP water company changed sanitation chemicals from monochloramine to free chlorine for a 30-day free-chlorine burn.....

Until now I had not been considering nor addressing chlorine in my water.

 

[E_Marquez]

The Blue Moon clone, being watery and flavorless, on the other hand, sounds like you totally nailed the clone!

Touche ...

I do like the Blue Moon as a session beer.... so was trying for that,,,, Missed by a mile

 

[E_Marquez]

Malty is - just malty - not what you were aiming for. One of your friends may like it.

I'd be interested to hear what the description is. It's not wet cardboard or plastic taste?

I don't think "Malty" is the right word.. and as far as other.. well I have never knowingly tasted wet cardboard..

That's a problem with new brewers... unless you have tasted a beer with a specific off flavor or smell and had an experienced person do that same, then describe what that off flavor is.. you can not really assign the proper term to it.
Kind of like THIS and THIS
All I know is it's crap.... I need an experienced taster to help be decipher what Im tasting...who to articulate that flavor in words.. and THEN,, once correctly identified.. I can figure out why it's present in ,my beer.

i keep good notes.. from grain to bottle...so if I can pin down the specific of what it wrong,, likely others can help spot the trouble point.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

Until now I had not been considering nor addressing chlorine in my water.

Campden tablets are cheap and easy to use insurance against chlorophenols. This is probably the number one off flavor I taste at the meetings of one of my homebrew clubs.

 

[E_Marquez]

Campden tablets are cheap and easy to use insurance against chlorophenols. This is probably the number one off flavor I taste at the meetings of one of my homebrew clubs.

Thanks for the tip

I just figured this out a few days ago.... Campden (potassium metabisulfite) on hand for the next brew day (which Im holding on till I get an idea what is going wrong)

The problem is.... I don't know what chlorophenols taste like Might very well be what Im tasting in my beer....

 

[AZBeerNut]

Interesting about the water change... and could definitely be your flavor issue. Have you considered just using spring water from a grocery store? I brew exclusively with one brand of spring water I've found works fantastic... and, at times, will add some special minerals based on the beer style I'm going for. It's worth the extra 3-5 dollars, per batch, to not have to worry about an inconsistent or chemically laden water supply, ya know?

 

[E_Marquez]

Interesting about the water change... and could definitely be your flavor issue. Have you considered just using spring water from a grocery store? I brew exclusively with one brand of spring water I've found works fantastic... and, at times, will add some special minerals based on the beer style I'm going for. It's worth the extra 3-5 dollars, per batch, to not have to worry about an inconsistent or chemically laden water supply, ya know?

Thanks

May just do that for this upcoming batch.... would take that concern out of the equation

 

[BigFloyd]

Sorry to hear about your problems Erik. You've got the ferment temp issue licked (you're pitching cool as well, right?), so it may well be a water issue.

-Can you be any more descriptive than "crap"?

-Are you filtering the water at all or just using it out of the tap? I use outside hose outlet water, but run it through one of these RV filters: http://www.amazon.com/Camco-40043-TastePURE-Flexible-Protector/dp/B0006IX87S/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1379252305&sr=8-10&keywords=camco I also use a drinking water hose (auto dept at Walmart) and add 1/2 Campden tab at the beginning of the process.

-Do you have a water softener? Those things put salts in the water that tend to make it unsuitable for brewing.

+1 on trying a batch using jugs of spring water just to see what sort of difference that makes.

 

[E_Marquez]

-Can you be any more descriptive than "crap"?

No... and that is part of the issue.. going to force my LHBS owner to try some today I'll record the results as he try not to puke (ok it's not that bad, but it aint good beer)
going to read and think about this for a bit.
http://www.bjcp.org/docs/OffFlavorFlash.pdf
Then taste again later this morning....

-Are you filtering the water at all or just using it out of the tap?

Filtered water from my fridge.. but as of yet no Campden added... did not know about that as an issue till too late.

-Do you have a water softener?

Nope

+1 on trying a batch using jugs of spring water just to see what sort of difference that makes.

Thats the plan.. I hate to add more $$$ and hassle to the process.. but I need to narrow down the variables and figure this out.
So at 10:00 off I go to the store for water and a stop in my LHBS place

 

[casesensative]

Dont feel too bad dude. Ive brewed about 12 batches now and the first 9 id say were fuggin terrrible. These last three have finally started to turn out good finally. The biggest changes i made was gettin a ferm chamber and fermenting very low. I ferment most everything (speaking on just Ales here) at 62. I also quit bottling and started kegging. Much easier and less chance for contamination. I quit using secondaries unless absolutely necessary. Once again, reducing risk of contamination. And i quit using plastic and now use glass. I think the plastic was holding on to some contaminates. Oh i also give the beers a good amount of time to complete fermentation and cleanup, and i cold crash before kegging.

I was almost on the verge of quitting before things finally started turning around. Lots of wasted money...lots. most of my stuff was undrinkable...try some of that stuff i mentioned though. It might help you out. I feel your frustration...

 

[E_Marquez]

Dont feel too bad dude. Ive brewed about 12 batches now and the first 9 id say were fuggin terrrible.

Thats part of my frustration.. my very first batch, no temp control.. was GREAT. Only after I learned stuff did things go down hill.

The biggest changes i made was gettin a ferm chamber and fermenting very low. I ferment most everything (speaking on just Ales here) at 62.

last 4 batches have been temped controlled,,, fermented at the low end of the suggest range by the yeast maker... I'm pitching at 65deg

I also quit bottling and started kegging.

I too will start kegging, today in fact.

But Im reasonable sure my off flavors are not a contamination / oxidized issue.

I quit using secondaries

me too... last three batches have been 4 or more weeks in the primary,, no secondary.

And i quit using plastic and now use glass. I think the plastic was holding on to some contaminates.

Ok on this one... well Im using plastic as it is what fits my fermentation chamber, and many, many folks are successfully brewing in them. Im very anal about the cleaning and finial sanitation (starsan mixed according to directions)

Oh i also give the beers a good amount of time to complete fermentation and cleanup, and i cold crash before kegging.

Far as I can tell on paper.. im doing ok in this regards...

I was almost on the verge of quitting .

I don't quit............... ever Just ask the wife of 22 years Even when perhaps I should

 

[BigFloyd]

I doubt that plastic vs. glass is your issue. I ferment in plastic 6.5 gallon fermenter buckets as do lots of other brewers with no problems. To me, the advantages far outweigh any disadvantage. After each ferment, I spray with a hose and soak the bucket overnight with a scoop of homemade PBW.

Erik, I'm confident that you'll get this sorted out and brew some great beers.

 

[Dynachrome]

.. going to force my LHBS owner to try some today I'll record the results as he try not to puke (ok it's not that bad, but it aint good beer)

That is always fun.

My LHBS owner is also a friend. While he tries to be honest, sometimes it's fun to see how he'll attempt not to hurt my feelings with his comments.

 

[BigFloyd]

That is always fun.

My LHBS owner is also a friend. While he tries to be honest, sometimes it's fun to see how he'll attempt not to hurt my feelings with his comments.

Mine never seems to care much about my feelings when critiquing my brew.

Maybe that's why I'll seek his opinion. He'll pick out subtle flavor characters others might miss or may think aren't worth mentioning.