Mugwort

[Falstaff]

Brewing a gruit this weekend and wondering how much I should boil/dry "hop".

4ga batch

3lb wheat
1lb 12oz 2-row
4oz acidulated

I have a starter I've been building up from some grain for the past two weeks and feeding daily, so it will be wild. After some souring/fermenting from whatever is in it I may add a regular yeast to lower the FG.

My questions are-

How much mugwort to add to boil, flameout, and dry after fermentation.?

Will mugwort inhibit lactobacillus? Should I boil a tea instead after souring is complete?

 

[AlexKay]

I made a very simple gruit with 2 g/gallon mugwort @ 60 minutes and 0.05 g/gallon wormwood at 30 minutes ... and that was it for the gruit part. It was pleasantly but not exceptionally bitter.

No idea on how it plays with bugs.

 

[Falstaff]

I made a very simple gruit with 2 g/gallon mugwort @ 60 minutes and 0.05 g/gallon wormwood at 30 minutes ... and that was it for the gruit part. It was pleasantly but not exceptionally bitter.

No idea on how it plays with bugs.

Thank you! That gives me someplace to start.

 

[Miraculix]

Thank you! That gives me someplace to start.

No it does not

Sorry to ruin that one (please nobody takes this as an offense!), but one mugwort might taste like this and the other like that. You know how big of a difference can be found when looking at different hops regarding bittering potential, right? Same applies to maaany plans. So here is the deal: You never know.

That is the beauty of it!

An easy fix is, to brew 1 litre of mugwort tea. You can start with 1g, boil it for 15 minutes and then look what you got! Taste it, imagine how it would be in a sour beer. Would it work? If not, decrease/increase the mount and boil a trial batch again.

From my humble experience, this is the only good way of dealing with herbs in beers, it works really well.

Oh, and somehting else, I learned it the hard way, do not "dry hop" with herbs. It is not worth it, it will spoil the beer. Hops are antibacterial by default, all the other herbs are not!

More infos here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-gruit-beer-thread.629637/
PS: The thread title is wrong, and what you are brewing is also not a gruit, it is a herbal beer... I did not know back in the day, the link is somwhere inside the thread with detailed explanations.

 

[Falstaff]

No it does not

Sorry to ruin that one (please nobody takes this as an offense!), but one mugwort might taste like this and the other like that. You know how big of a difference can be found when looking at different hops regarding bittering potential, right? Same applies to maaany plans. So here is the deal: You never know.

That is the beauty of it!

An easy fix is, to brew 1 litre of mugwort tea. You can start with 1g, boil it for 15 minutes and then look what you got! Taste it, imagine how it would be in a sour beer. Would it work? If not, decrease/increase the mount and boil a trial batch again.

From my humble experience, this is the only good way of dealing with herbs in beers, it works really well.

Oh, and somehting else, I learned it the hard way, do not "dry hop" with herbs. It is not worth it, it will spoil the beer. Hops are antibacterial by default, all the other herbs are not!

More infos here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-gruit-beer-thread.629637/
PS: The thread title is wrong, and what you are brewing is also not a gruit, it is a herbal beer... I did not know back in the day, the link is somwhere inside the thread with detailed explanations.

Thanks for the help

How is the title wrong?

 

[Falstaff]

And I'll do the trial batch. I wanted to be lazy and just brew with it in the kettle but I'll err on the side of caution.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the help

How is the title wrong?

I meant the title of my thread, "the Gruit beer thread". Gruit is actualy a very specific combination and dos not mean beer without hops o herbal beer.

And I'll do the trial batch. I wanted to be lazy and just brew with it in the kettle but I'll err on the side of caution.

No trial batch needed, just brew a tea and try it. It is as simple as that. You can scale up from there.

 

[Falstaff]

Sorry that's what I meant. That's the plan, man. I've been reading through that thread the past few days too, trying to glean some info. Ty

 

[Falstaff]

No it does not

Sorry to ruin that one (please nobody takes this as an offense!), but one mugwort might taste like this and the other like that. You know how big of a difference can be found when looking at different hops regarding bittering potential, right? Same applies to maaany plans. So here is the deal: You never know.

That is the beauty of it!

An easy fix is, to brew 1 litre of mugwort tea. You can start with 1g, boil it for 15 minutes and then look what you got! Taste it, imagine how it would be in a sour beer. Would it work? If not, decrease/increase the mount and boil a trial batch again.

From my humble experience, this is the only good way of dealing with herbs in beers, it works really well.

Oh, and somehting else, I learned it the hard way, do not "dry hop" with herbs. It is not worth it, it will spoil the beer. Hops are antibacterial by default, all the other herbs are not!

More infos here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-gruit-beer-thread.629637/
PS: The thread title is wrong, and what you are brewing is also not a gruit, it is a herbal beer... I did not know back in the day, the link is somwhere inside the thread with detailed explanations.

Also, you said no dry hopping, but can I do late additions, like at flameout?

 

[BrewMan13]

I've done many iterations of an gruit-inspired imperial stout, and settled on 0.5oz of mugwort. Any more and it got less pleasant.

 

[Falstaff]

I've done many iterations of an gruit-inspired imperial stout, and settled on 0.5oz of mugwort. Any more and it got less pleasant.

5 gallons?

 

[BrewMan13]

5 gallons?

Yup, should have specified. This has lots of other brewing herbs in it, but mugwort still dominates the flavor profile, it's strong stuff. I ended up adding it at 20min, but no specific reason.

 

[Miraculix]

Also, you said no dry hopping, but can I do late additions, like at flameout?

You can, but why? I would go with a 15 minute boil and be done with it. I see no reason to stagger the herb additions like you would do with hops.

 

[THE MALTED YARDIE]

No it does not

Sorry to ruin that one (please nobody takes this as an offense!), but one mugwort might taste like this and the other like that. You know how big of a difference can be found when looking at different hops regarding bittering potential, right? Same applies to maaany plans. So here is the deal: You never know.

That is the beauty of it!

An easy fix is, to brew 1 litre of mugwort tea. You can start with 1g, boil it for 15 minutes and then look what you got! Taste it, imagine how it would be in a sour beer. Would it work? If not, decrease/increase the mount and boil a trial batch again.

From my humble experience, this is the only good way of dealing with herbs in beers, it works really well.

Oh, and somehting else, I learned it the hard way, do not "dry hop" with herbs. It is not worth it, it will spoil the beer. Hops are antibacterial by default, all the other herbs are not!

More infos here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-gruit-beer-thread.629637/
PS: The thread title is wrong, and what you are brewing is also not a gruit, it is a herbal beer... I did not know back in the day, the link is somwhere inside the thread with detailed explanations.

Actually, there are many herbs that are way more antibacterial than hops that were used in gruits.

 

[Miraculix]

Actually, there are many herbs that are way more antibacterial than hops that were used in gruits.

From my personal experience, and I brewed beer with most the known herbs that were used for beer historically, none of them prevented it from souring on the long run. Bog myrtle and ground ivy were keeping the lactos at bay the longest but eventually also these soured in the bottle. All the other ones were already sour when filling the bottles from the fermenter. Not bad though, interesting sour beers.

With hops and the same process, I never had an unintentional sour.

Gruit is quite a specific term which also changed it's meaning over time, I think you might mean historical herbal beers instead.

 

[Falstaff]

From my personal experience, and I brewed beer with most the known herbs that were used for beer historically, none of them prevented it from souring on the long run. Bog myrtle and ground ivy were keeping the lactos at bay the longest but eventually also these soured in the bottle. All the other ones were already sour when filling the bottles from the fermenter. Not bad though, interesting sour beers.

With hops and the same process, I never had an unintentional sour.

Gruit is quite a specific term which also changed it's meaning over time, I think you might mean historical herbal beers instead.

I hope mugwort doesn't inhibit it. I want it to sour in the bottle. Also decided I'm going to add elderberry, too, if you have any experience with that.

 

[Miraculix]

I hope mugwort doesn't inhibit it. I want it to sour in the bottle. Also decided I'm going to add elderberry, too, if you have any experience with that.

Afaik, Elderberries have to be boiled to destroy the toxins which they got inside. I never used them in a beer, my grandma used to make a dessert out of them. I cannot really imagine them in a beer though... I always had them in a sweet context.

Well worth a try though. I would do a split batch to be able to evaluate which ingredient brings what to the table.

 

[Falstaff]

Afaik, Elderberries have to be boiled to destroy the toxins which they got inside. I never used them in a beer, my grandma used to make a dessert out of them. I cannot really imagine them in a beer though... I always had them in a sweet context.

Will worth a try though. I would do s split batch to be able to evaluate which ingredient brings what to the table.

I read that somewhere. Something like cyanide in them. I will definitely boil them.

 

[dirt_witch]

No it does not

Sorry to ruin that one (please nobody takes this as an offense!), but one mugwort might taste like this and the other like that. You know how big of a difference can be found when looking at different hops regarding bittering potential, right? Same applies to maaany plans. So here is the deal: You never know.

That is the beauty of it!

An easy fix is, to brew 1 litre of mugwort tea. You can start with 1g, boil it for 15 minutes and then look what you got! Taste it, imagine how it would be in a sour beer. Would it work? If not, decrease/increase the mount and boil a trial batch again.

From my humble experience, this is the only good way of dealing with herbs in beers, it works really well.

Oh, and somehting else, I learned it the hard way, do not "dry hop" with herbs. It is not worth it, it will spoil the beer. Hops are antibacterial by default, all the other herbs are not!

More infos here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-gruit-beer-thread.629637/
PS: The thread title is wrong, and what you are brewing is also not a gruit, it is a herbal beer... I did not know back in the day, the link is somwhere inside the thread with detailed explanations.

I've been working with herbs in beers for a while now and DEFINITELY taste each source. In doing research for a beer with mugwort I did a boil test exactly like the one above with 1g of dried, store bought mugwort from an apothecary near by and steeped it in water just taken off a rolling boil for 5 minutes. It was puckeringly, seethingly bitter -- absolutely undrinkable. A few weeks later I foraged wild mugwort, added 3 g to 1 litre of water taken off a rolling boil and steeped for 5 minutes. This infusion was incredibly weak. A gentle bitterness appeared after 40 minutes of steeping in teapot.

All this is just to say different herb sources (of the same type) have very different potencies and flavours -- taste them! With bitter herbs like yarrow and mugwort I've found the difference to be between 'did I just take a mouthful of cleaning product' and 'I'm ready to drink a whole pot of this rejuvenating decoction' with identical amounts and preparation.

P.S. Mugwort is actually mildly psychoactive, through more during sleep than waking hours, promoting strange, vivid dreams with a tendency for lucidity. Many peoples also use it for stomach and uterine problems. It's even got a strong folkloric history as an article of protection against immaterial evils and was one of the sacred plants of europe, showing up in religious contexts in at least Greece and the lands of the Celts (probably more, but they're the only one's I know of specifically). You can even smoke it.

 

[Falstaff]

I've been working with herbs in beers for a while now and DEFINITELY taste each source. In doing research for a beer with mugwort I did a boil test exactly like the one above with 1g of dried, store bought mugwort from an apothecary near by and steeped it in water just taken off a rolling boil for 5 minutes. It was puckeringly, seethingly bitter -- absolutely undrinkable. A few weeks later I foraged wild mugwort, added 3 g to 1 litre of water taken off a rolling boil and steeped for 5 minutes. This infusion was incredibly weak. A gentle bitterness appeared after 40 minutes of steeping in teapot.

All this is just to say different herb sources (of the same type) have very different potencies and flavours -- taste them! With bitter herbs like yarrow and mugwort I've found the difference to be between 'did I just take a mouthful of cleaning product' and 'I'm ready to drink a whole pot of this rejuvenating decoction' with identical amounts and preparation.

P.S. Mugwort is actually mildly psychoactive, through more during sleep than waking hours, promoting strange, vivid dreams with a tendency for lucidity. Many peoples also use it for stomach and uterine problems. It's even got a strong folkloric history as an article of protection against immaterial evils and was one of the sacred plants of europe, showing up in religious contexts in at least Greece and the lands of the Celts (probably more, but they're the only one's I know of specifically). You can even smoke it.

Oh, I KNOW you can smoke it