Mr Beer - Read all about it and ask questions

[Kirkwooder]

I would suggest splitting one of your beers into two batches and prime one half with table sugar and the other with DME. Let them carb up and then try them. See if you can tell the difference. I have done this many times, and had several different people taste the two beers and almost all have noticed the difference.
This is just my experience and may differ from others, so give it a try yourself and see.

 

[PC509]

I would suggest splitting one of your beers into two batches and prime one half with table sugar and the other with DME. Let them carb up and then try them. See if you can tell the difference. I have done this many times, and had several different people taste the two beers and almost all have noticed the difference.
This is just my experience and may differ from others, so give it a try yourself and see.

Last batch, I did half with table sugar and the other half with carbonation drops. I did notice a difference, but I attribute it to me expecting and wanting to taste a difference. Was it there? I really don't know.

I'd love to see someone do a blind taste test to find out. Someone that can do a consistent batch that tastes good and is a reliable test. I'd love to see an article on HBT about that...

 

[slym2none]

As far as temps go, I'm always surprised many beginner instructions don't emphasize good temps. Pitching yeast too hot is never good, and I'm amazed they don't emphasize proper temps during fermentations. Keeping fermentation temps in the proper range for the yeast you are using can make a world of difference.

Yeah, I had a huge head of krausen 12 hours later, it settled down to less than an inch for the next 6 days, and by day 8, gone. Nothing on top of the beer, and it doesn't seem as cloudy. I just hope I didn't get any off-flavours.

10 days to go before bottling! I will make sure to take a small taste then.

 

[slym2none]

And I agree with most of what you said.
Here's my thought: Let's use cane sugar and honey for comparison. Cane is 100% fermentable and will produce CO2 leaving nothing behind (except alcohol of course!). Let's call honey 80% fermentable and agree that it will leave behind either more complex sugars that the yeast can't eat or "the rest of the honey that isn't sugar). How does that affect the CO2 that is produced? How can a CO2 molecule/bubble be a different size based on what creates it?

I won't argue that the same level of CO2 can feel different in different beers (a thinner beer versus a heavier beer) but I'm not buying into the 'different bubbles" until somebody can explain that to me.

At that point, I will gladly remove foot from mouth

Oh, I like this guy... PAGE 351!!!

:rockin:

 

[ericbw]

Because no one can tell the difference between beer that is force carbed and beer that is bottle conditioned, much less the difference between two bottle conditioned beers using different priming sugars...that's how I know it's imperceptible.

I believe that you can't tell the difference, and even that you don't know anyone that can. But saying "no one can tell" isn't backing up your claim. You're just restating the two things you already said.

I was curious if you had anything to back it up, or if it's like, just your opinion, man.

There are people who claim there's a difference in force carb vs natural carb. I also heard an interesting podcast about soda that's carbed with dry ice, supposedly giving it a different quality.

 

[ericbw]

Oh, I like this guy... PAGE 351!!!



:rockin:

Verify his claim that honey is 20% less fermentable than sugar. I'm not sure about that.

However, DME does have "stuff" in it that doesn't ferment. And you use more DME to prime than you would sugar. So maybe he's on to something. Even though he has nothing to refute the smaller bubbles theory.

 

[Oginme]

I have several recipes that I prime with honey. It struck me a while back that the bottles which were honey primed seemed to have a more lasting, finer bubbled head. So I took a 5-gallon batch of my Scotch Ale and split it to bottle half with table sugar and half with honey. I took a sample of the honey I was using (clover honey) and diluted a small sample by weight to check the sugar content. It worked out to be about 86% sugars versus the table sugar.

So I primed accordingly.

Observations: The honey took longer to carbonate the beer. By the time the honey had fully carbonated, there was no discernible difference between the batches. [note: SWMBO poured blind, not knowing which was which and served them to me also blind. The only indicator was the color of the bottle cap which she revealed to me after I had made my observations.] This lead me back to my records which also indicated that those beers that I carbonated with honey did take on the average 7 to 9 days longer to carbonate at room temperature (mid-60's).

One data point only but pretty convincing for me considering I had a preconceived idea that the honey primed would give me a different result.

 

[uatuba]

I believe that you can't tell the difference, and even that you don't know anyone that can. But saying "no one can tell" isn't backing up your claim. You're just restating the two things you already said.

I was curious if you had anything to back it up, or if it's like, just your opinion, man.

There are people who claim there's a difference in force carb vs natural carb. I also heard an interesting podcast about soda that's carbed with dry ice, supposedly giving it a different quality.

There's no scientific reason why it would be different, period. I can assure you that there isn't a person alive, save for some sensory savant, that can tell the difference with any more reliability than random guessing. I'm not doing your research for you.

 

[ericbw]

There's no scientific reason why it would be different, period. I can assure you that there isn't a person alive, save for some sensory savant, that can tell the difference with any more reliability than random guessing. I'm not doing your research for you.

Ok, but what's the basis for saying there's no scientific reason? How do you know that?

 

[Kirkwooder]

There's no scientific reason why it would be different, period. I can assure you that there isn't a person alive, save for some sensory savant, that can tell the difference with any more reliability than random guessing. I'm not doing your research for you.

Just what super power did the good Lord bless you with that gives you the ability to tell what every person on the planet can and cannot taste?

 

[uatuba]

Just what super power did the good Lord bless you with that gives you the ability to tell what every person on the planet can and cannot taste?

It's called common effing sense. Do you want to accept a challenge? I'll be glad to send you three bottles of beer carbed with three different methods. If you can identify them, I will do a second batch. If you can identify the methods of carbonation for those, I'll buy you a brew kettle.

If you can't...and you can't...you'll admit you're full of it and never spout this BS again.

 

[Kirkwooder]

It's called common effing sense. Do you want to accept a challenge? I'll be glad to send you three bottles of beer carbed with three different methods. If you can identify them, I will do a second batch. If you can identify the methods of carbonation for those, I'll buy you a brew kettle.

If you can't...and you can't...you'll admit you're full of it and never spout this BS again.

I have done this several times. I don't need to do your challenge.

And as for spouting, I'm not the one who's claiming to have super powers. You are being a D bag, and I called you out on it. Disagree with me if you want, but to claim that you know that I, or anyone else for that matter, can't tell the difference is a CROCK! How do you know what I can or can not do?

I know of at least one reference in a published book that agrees with me. Do you have any thing other than your own "cause I say so" attitude that supports your position?

 

[uatuba]

I have done this several times. I don't need to do your challenge.



And as for spouting, I'm not the one who's claiming to have super powers. You are being a D bag, and I called you out on it. Disagree with me if you want, but to claim that you know that I, or anyone else for that matter, can't tell the difference is a CROCK! How do you know what I can or can not do?



I know of at least one reference in a published book that agrees with me. Do you have any thing other than your own "cause I say so" attitude that supports your position?

The "D bag" thing to do is to claim something that isn't true. I've offered to let you prove that you can tell a difference. I've offered you 6 free beers and a mea culpa in the form of a $250 brew pot if you prove me wrong, with only the request that you admit I'm right in the event you can't. You won't accept, because you know the result.

All of the reference materials I've been able to find claim that there is ZERO difference in terms of final product that is determined by carbonation method.

 

[V1nny]

Hey,

Ive brewed 3 batches of Mr Beer and they all have the same underlying taste. Its a bready sort of taste. I cant really pin point it but its the same through all batches.

The one thing I know I messed up on in all 3 batches was pitching the yeast practically rigth after taking it off the flame. I mixed it with about a gallon and a half of cold water, but it was probably in the 90s when I pitched their dry packet yeast.

Is this the cause of the same consistent weird taste, or is it the type of yeast theyre giving me?

Has anyone else had a consistent flavor through all their mr beer batches?

Thanks
Vinny

 

[V1nny]

or if it's like, just your opinion, man.

:d :d

 

[ericbw]

Hey,

Ive brewed 3 batches of Mr Beer and they all have the same underlying taste. Its a bready sort of taste. I cant really pin point it but its the same through all batches.

The one thing I know I messed up on in all 3 batches was pitching the yeast practically rigth after taking it off the flame. I mixed it with about a gallon and a half of cold water, but it was probably in the 90s when I pitched their dry packet yeast.

Is this the cause of the same consistent weird taste, or is it the type of yeast theyre giving me?

Has anyone else had a consistent flavor through all their mr beer batches?

Thanks
Vinny

That could be a reason. But how long was it fermenting and then conditioning before you tasted it?

The most basic advice on Mr. Beer is to give it more time in the fermenter. That's the single best improvement to Mr. Beer, and it's free! 3 weeks in the fermenter, 2 weeks in the bottle, 1 week in the fridge is a good schedule.

Secondly, most people will say to change the yeast. Get a pack of US-05 if you can. Coopers is also decent, and inexpensive. Avoid Munton's, though.

You should see improvements from those two things.

 

[ericbw]

It's called common effing sense. Do you want to accept a challenge? I'll be glad to send you three bottles of beer carbed with three different methods. If you can identify them, I will do a second batch. If you can identify the methods of carbonation for those, I'll buy you a brew kettle.

If you can't...and you can't...you'll admit you're full of it and never spout this BS again.

See, you're being asked why you said something. What reference you have to support something you said was "scientific." Instead, you cite "common sense," which is the opposite of scientific.

Common sense can be correct, and it can be proven scientifically, but it's not scientific.

Then you said you won't do the research for someone else.

Then you suggested that others do the research for you (disguised as a bet).

Again, you might be correct in what you're saying. But the conversation has changed from the original question. The question I was originally asking was how you came to such a strong conclusion. Your only answer is common sense.

If you had already done this experiment, then say so. That's a basis for your comment and an answer to the question I asked you.

 

[uatuba]

See, you're being asked why you said something. What reference you have to support something you said was "scientific." Instead, you cite "common sense," which is the opposite of scientific.

Common sense can be correct, and it can be proven scientifically, but it's not scientific.

Then you said you won't do the research for someone else.

Then you suggested that others do the research for you (disguised as a bet).

Again, you might be correct in what you're saying. But the conversation has changed from the original question. The question I was originally asking was how you came to such a strong conclusion. Your only answer is common sense.

If you had already done this experiment, then say so. That's a basis for your comment and an answer to the question I asked you.

Everything I have said is consistent.

1) There is no scientific reason that the size of the carbonation bubble would be any different based on carbonation method.

2) The very slight differences that do occur as a result of carbonation methods are imperceptible to the masters as evidenced by;

3) the fact that their written resources state as much. You can look these up yourself.

4) It is therefore common sense to understand that if the masters cannot discern a difference, then neither can someone positing on a website in the Mr. Beer forum.

5) However, I stated a willingness to allow demonstrable proof that I'm wrong...that somehow, there is a sensory savant who can tell the difference between types of gasoline by smell alone.

I am not the person who is claiming something that flies in the face of the knowledge available, and even when I've offered to allow him to prove me wrong, he simply says he's done his own tests and can tell the difference. I'm saying that the Pygmalion Effect is in play which, given all of the evidence available, makes the most sense.

I know that some people really WANT to believe that using different carbonation methods make a noticeable difference. I did at one time, too. I finally started looking into it, which is what everyone who has a question should be doing, and I found it pretty overwhelming that it really just doesn't matter.

 

[Kirkwooder]

Everything I have said is consistent.

1) There is no scientific reason that the size of the carbonation bubble would be any different based on carbonation method.

2) The very slight differences that do occur as a result of carbonation methods are imperceptible to the masters as evidenced by;

3) the fact that their written resources state as much. You can look these up yourself.

4) It is therefore common sense to understand that if the masters cannot discern a difference, then neither can someone positing on a website in the Mr. Beer forum.

5) However, I stated a willingness to allow demonstrable proof that I'm wrong...that somehow, there is a sensory savant who can tell the difference between types of gasoline by smell alone.

I am not the person who is claiming something that flies in the face of the knowledge available, and even when I've offered to allow him to prove me wrong, he simply says he's done his own tests and can tell the difference. I'm saying that the Pygmalion Effect is in play which, given all of the evidence available, makes the most sense.

I know that some people really WANT to believe that using different carbonation methods make a noticeable difference. I did at one time, too. I finally started looking into it, which is what everyone who has a question should be doing, and I found it pretty overwhelming that it really just doesn't matter.

I am telling you that I believe I can tell the difference. I also believe that every new brewer should try several methods of priming for themselves, to see for themselves, if , in fact they can tell a difference.

If you don't believe me that is your right, but you don't need to to prove how much of a ****** bag you can be about it. Simply state your disagreement politely and move on! No need to further ad to the proof.

Now, can we please get back to Mr. Beer related conversation!

 

[V1nny]

That could be a reason. But how long was it fermenting and then conditioning before you tasted it?

The most basic advice on Mr. Beer is to give it more time in the fermenter. That's the single best improvement to Mr. Beer, and it's free! 3 weeks in the fermenter, 2 weeks in the bottle, 1 week in the fridge is a good schedule.

Secondly, most people will say to change the yeast. Get a pack of US-05 if you can. Coopers is also decent, and inexpensive. Avoid Munton's, though.

You should see improvements from those two things.

Ok thanks.

I normally did 2 weeks in fermenter then 3 in the bottle. I'll switch those around with this recent batch. Also I'll pick up some of that yeast you recommended from my LHBS.

Would it be ok to put the LBK in a swamp cooler? Right now it's in a cooler that stays at 70 f.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Ok thanks.

I normally did 2 weeks in fermenter then 3 in the bottle. I'll switch those around with this recent batch. Also I'll pick up some of that yeast you recommended from my LHBS.

Would it be ok to put the LBK in a swamp cooler? Right now it's in a cooler that stays at 70 f.

Swamp cooler is fine as long as water from the swamp cooler can't enter the LBK.

 

[ericbw]

Everything I have said is consistent.

1) There is no scientific reason that the size of the carbonation bubble would be any different based on carbonation method.

2) The very slight differences that do occur as a result of carbonation methods are imperceptible to the masters as evidenced by;

3) the fact that their written resources state as much. You can look these up yourself.

4) It is therefore common sense to understand that if the masters cannot discern a difference, then neither can someone positing on a website in the Mr. Beer forum.

5) However, I stated a willingness to allow demonstrable proof that I'm wrong...that somehow, there is a sensory savant who can tell the difference between types of gasoline by smell alone.

I am not the person who is claiming something that flies in the face of the knowledge available, and even when I've offered to allow him to prove me wrong, he simply says he's done his own tests and can tell the difference. I'm saying that the Pygmalion Effect is in play which, given all of the evidence available, makes the most sense.

I know that some people really WANT to believe that using different carbonation methods make a noticeable difference. I did at one time, too. I finally started looking into it, which is what everyone who has a question should be doing, and I found it pretty overwhelming that it really just doesn't matter.

If there is a "scientific" explanation for why the bubbles are the same size, that would be helpful. But saying there is no reason why they are not the same size is not really something that can be backed up, unless you know all scientific reasons for everything. If we did, there would be no research.

Saying to look it up for yourself, when you already have access to it, since you looked it up, is not helpful to the community. It's not laziness, since you're willing to send three beers, wait for results, send another three, and potentially send a brew kettle as well. So point us in the direction of the masters' work.

Instead of feeling attacked, wouldn't it be easier to simply answer the question about what resource you have used to come to the conclusion you have? I don't know (or care) if there is a difference. But I'm always curious how people arrive at their conclusions.

 

[ericbw]

Ok thanks.

I normally did 2 weeks in fermenter then 3 in the bottle. I'll switch those around with this recent batch. Also I'll pick up some of that yeast you recommended from my LHBS.

Would it be ok to put the LBK in a swamp cooler? Right now it's in a cooler that stays at 70 f.

That should be fine to do. I also think you get better results with temperatures in the 60s. Now that I have control, I aim for 64, but in the past, keeping it under 68 seemed good. (Except for saisons, where you want to get it hot.)

 

[banks741938]

Sorry if this was posted before didn't read all the posts... Is the saintizer that comes with the mr beer kits any good. How much for a gallon? 1 tbs??? Thanks!

 

[uatuba]

If there is a "scientific" explanation for why the bubbles are the same size, that would be helpful. But saying there is no reason why they are not the same size is not really something that can be backed up, unless you know all scientific reasons for everything. If we did, there would be no research.



Saying to look it up for yourself, when you already have access to it, since you looked it up, is not helpful to the community. It's not laziness, since you're willing to send three beers, wait for results, send another three, and potentially send a brew kettle as well. So point us in the direction of the masters' work.



Instead of feeling attacked, wouldn't it be easier to simply answer the question about what resource you have used to come to the conclusion you have? I don't know (or care) if there is a difference. But I'm always curious how people arrive at their conclusions.

Fine. Click here: http://bit.ly/1IQemuN

 

[uatuba]

Sorry if this was posted before didn't read all the posts... Is the saintizer that comes with the mr beer kits any good. How much for a gallon? 1 tbs??? Thanks!

It is good. Many will tell you that it is a "cleanser" and not a sanitizer, and they are right in the sense that it has not been FDA approved as a sanitizer. But if it is sodium percarbonate, and I think it is, it forms hydrogen peroxide which definitely kills bacteria. It's a PITA to use properly because it doesn't instantly dissolve, but I've used it (OxiClean Free) several times in a pinch. Iodophor or StarSan is probably easier, but not necessarily better.

 

[banks741938]

It is good. Many will tell you that it is a "cleanser" and not a sanitizer, and they are right in the sense that it has not been FDA approved as a sanitizer. But if it is sodium percarbonate, and I think it is, it forms hydrogen peroxide which definitely kills bacteria. It's a PITA to use properly because it doesn't instantly dissolve, but I've used it (OxiClean Free) several times in a pinch. Iodophor or StarSan is probably easier, but not necessarily better.

Thanks. So how much per gallon. I use 1 tbsp per gallon with one step.. I would guess it's about the same... Thanks!

 

[uatuba]

Whatever the instructions are on the packet should be good.

 

[slym2none]

Yeah, if I were being 100% honest with my input I'd say ferment for 2, carb/condition for room temp for 4 total and then sit in fridge for a week before tasting but we all know that nobody has that patience for their first outing so I was trying to be realistic

1) the above quote is 3 years old; this I know
2) I'm gonna beat that by 2 weeks. I'm going a 3-5-1 route, 3 weeks to ferment, 3 weeks to carb with an additional 2 on top of that for a total of 5 weeks carb/conditioning, 1 week in the fridge.

I swear, I'm gonna make it! Tomorrow is the end of week 2 in the fermenter. I actually saw a few small patches of bubbles on the surface looking through my LBK with a powerful flashlight tonight, so I am guessing it is still fermenting ever so slightly. One more week to make sure (no hydrometer yet) and to let it "clean up" before a quick cold-crash & bottling!

 

[ericbw]

1) the above quote is 3 years old; this I know

2) I'm gonna beat that by 2 weeks. I'm going a 3-5-1 route, 3 weeks to ferment, 3 weeks to carb with an additional 2 on top of that for a total of 5 weeks carb/conditioning, 1 week in the fridge.



I swear, I'm gonna make it! Tomorrow is the end of week 2 in the fermenter. I actually saw a few small patches of bubbles on the surface looking through my LBK with a powerful flashlight tonight, so I am guessing it is still fermenting ever so slightly. One more week to make sure (no hydrometer yet) and to let it "clean up" before a quick cold-crash & bottling!

To be honest, I ferment 4 weeks usually. It's just easier. I know some say that's not necessary, but it works for me.