Moving up to 25 Gal batches

[TheJadedDog]

I'm honestly curious as to why you would want to do this? AG brewing is not any more complicated than extract brewing and if you have the ability to brew 25 gallons at a time, just go AG.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

I'm honestly curious as to why you would want to do this? AG brewing is not any more complicated than extract brewing and if you have the ability to brew 25 gallons at a time, just go AG.

Clean & sanitize everything, boil 31g (steep if nec), dump ME into the 40g boiling kettle, hop, boil, hop, cool, ferment, and keg

With AG in the future, this should be a good way to produce a large volume(w/ a good initial investment) that will last or convert to a good AG system, RIGHT?

 

[Nwcw2001]

I'm guessing this was an AG batch? What would you estimate the time spent VS. a 5g or 10g batch?
Or is that what you meant by "the extract in"?

This was AG. 63# of grain and 10# of sugar!
I did an experiment with this batch. I did the 20min mash and hit my target pretty well.

The "the extract in" was meaning the barrels that my LBHS gets all it's liquid extract in blue 55gallon barrels like this one

John

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Check this out

http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9288

 

[BierMuncher]

... Guess I shouldn't have been so skeptical.
There obviously are a lot of people experienced in the endeavor I'm about to endure....

Heh 5isnotenough, sorry if I came accross as some sort of holier-than-thow EAC type.

Ya just caught me off guard...

But you're still bonkers

 

[eviljafar]

However, you can potentially save a TON of cash with keggles if you have some metalworking skills/tools and a cheap source for kegs. So, that's something to consider.

Ever since I saw your video of you cutting the top off a sankey with a plasma torch I've been wondering ... do you have a sister?

I'm married but I've divorced once and I'd do it again for a girl that can weld stainless steel and has a great workshop. True love is making more beer.

 

[Cookiebaggs]

Heh 5isnotenough, sorry if I came accross as some sort of holier-than-thow EAC type.

Ya just caught me off guard...

But you're still bonkers

Yeah dude, same here. That said, I'd seriously consider going AG.

And Salmonslayer, 45 gallon batches? you rock!

So WTF? Do you just brew a 5 gallon batch for the starter?

Seriously, how much yeast do you pitch?

 

[Salmon Slayer]

Dry yeast. 1 pack per 5 gallons. S-04 and S-05 are pretty decent yeast.

 

[Jaybird]

I say if you want to brew 25 gallons of extract and move to AG later FU(K go for it brother and god speed let us know how your doing with it. there are some things to concider as I am sure you know. I mean your no noob!!! I am but I will TRY to lend a helping hand where I can. for a 25 gal batch your going to need about 250,000 btu and thats just a rough guess using some silly little chart I got. and since your not mashing your starting from cold and its gonna take some time to heat but once you start mashing your gonna start from about 165 or so. Remember the tier HLT, MT, and BK I might suggest a grant and a pump but thats just me. I dont think an IC is gonna do ya without a pre chiller but I still would suggest a CFC and a aireating system of some sort maybe even go pure O2 and a reg. I like the idea of the fermenter probably going to need to find away to control INSIDE ferment temp maybe a small home built box (insulated of course) and a way to raise for a diacetyl rest if you so desire. there a bunch of toys that most of us use here like ph meters, barley crushers, scales, tubing galore and fittings like you wouldnt believe. There are a tun of hidden costs that most of us have endured over a long period of time that you WILL just have to jump in head first and buy. Like a BIG pot (or 2 small pots but thats not really brewing 25 gallons) for your BK probably 30+ gallons ( I want to see your first boil over)for your MT I think the 125 will do ya and for a HLT youll need Oh maybe a keggle will do but for extract you wont have to worry about those for a bit. Hay fellow brewer RDWHAHB and Damn loose the TUDE if its help you want then heed the advice you asked for like a big boy and rebuttle with some forthought. Like I said before "go for it" youll find your way. this is a hobby so its suposed to be a learning experiance and most of all FUN
Cheers
JJ

 

[olllllo]

I missed this thread today.

It looks like alot of people got ticked off and a tremendous amount of good information was posted. 68 posts in the better part of a day, unreal.

If anyone thinks such a confrontational shaming style is a blueprint for getting information from the wealth of experienced folks on this site, they will quickly be on the outside looking in.

We all get a mulligan on this one.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

I missed this thread today.

It looks like alot of people got ticked off and a tremendous amount of good information was posted. 68 posts in the better part of a day, unreal.

If anyone thinks such a confrontational shaming style is a blueprint for getting information from the wealth of experienced folks on this site, they will quickly be on the outside looking in.

We all get a mulligan on this one.

The information may or may not have been worth a little irritation...
Fact of the matter: everybody repeating everybody else wasn't going to get me anywhere...

I'll try to check myself next time...

 

[teu1003]

Three or four times a year, my brew club does a 90 gallon brew, using 2 55-gallon stainless drums. We cool the wort and divide it into 5 gallon batches to the first 18 members who sign up and bring a fermenter.

The brew-day is endless, usually 12 to 14 hours, and this is with a lot of hands helping. The water in the drums takes about a minute per degree to heat -- so taking 70 degree water to strike temp takes nearly 2 hours.

At days end, you put up $20 - $25, and take your sore back and fermenter home to tend your treasure as you please.

The commeraderie makes the day worthwhile, and also tasting the beers/wines/meads, etc. everyone inevitably brings to share.

Before you embark on your project, maybe you and your friends can look for a brew club who does similar large scale brewing, and will let you watch and help.

For what its worth, I have a 15 gallon kettle and other than the occasional co-brew with a friend, I rarely make more than 5 gallon batches. I kinda enjoy the process and would rather make 2 five gallons batches than one 10.

 

[shafferpilot]

I had a couple thought last night, while laying in bed thinking about Edwort's new brewhut, about heating large volumes of fluid like this (completely unrelated, I know; it's just how my brain works). I think the problem is that when you go bigger and bigger, the volume of water increases at an exponential rate, while surface area of the pot increases linearly (ie double the fluid volume but only increase surface area by 1.3 or something like that). Therefore, it takes longer to transfer enough heat to get to the temp you want. I had three separate ideas. First a set of vertical pipes in the pot welded over holes in the bottom. Then the hot gases from the burner can travel through the pipes instead of going around the sides of the pot, and the pipe's surface area would increase surface area contact with the fluid. Second was fins like a radiator welded onto the inside of the pot around the sides. Again, the idea is to increase surface area contact with the fluid. Lastly, a double walled pot like a steam kettle, but instead of putting high pressure steam in the jacket, put your fire in there. I notice that with a propane burner, a TON of heat flies right past the pot and collects between the floor joists in my basement and the top of the stairwell. Perhaps trapping some of that heat and keeping it close to the pot increases heat transfer. Of course copper for the inner wall is preferrable since it transfers heat better, but if you think a 55 gallon SS pot is expensive........

 

[Bobby_M]

I thought a little more about this and I'm thinking that running two back to back 12 gallon batches in one day would be a more scalable solution.

If you think about this in terms of extract only, it adds quite a bit of time to the brew day. However, once you cross over to all grain, you simply stagger it so that you begin your next mash shortly after you begin boiling your first 12. The benefit is that half the system is still practical for a single 5 or 10 gallon batch. You certainly wouldn't try a 5 gallon batch in a 30 gallon kettle.

You can get away with using keggles instead of really pricy 30 gallon kettles. You'd need two burners, but they could be of manageable size.

If you're really set on a 30 gallon kettle, I'd be looking around for a steam jacketed kettle. Running a huge burner under a huge pot is an incredible waste of fuel.
What state are you in 5isnotenough?

 

[Wort*hog]

Dont feel alone 5isnotenough. I am going to do the same thing. I'm going to get a 30 gallon mix fill conical tank from us plastics. The 33lb extract purchase is just right for a 25gal brew. Its not as cheap as you can go but for ease and economy it's not bad. i wont boil the whole thing. Just 7.5 gallons of water and the extract with the hops. the rest cold water. just like doing a True Brew(tm) kit It should fit in my 11gal s.s. pot 5x the hops 5x the yeast. simple! Why? Boom one brewday and I got everybody that comes by for a beer taken care of. Those who really like and deserve a great beer can enjoy my AG beer in five gal batches. I have no problem picking up more kegs have 17 already. Of all the advice I read online when it comes to brewing I like the best is that that say simple methods make great beer. Do what you want. It will work.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

I'd thought that 10 kegs would have sufficed, but I keep hearing emphasis on more kegs. My thought was that with a batch this large, I'd not want to have back-to-back batches going into storage. I realize the necessity to age the beer, but I wouldn't exactly run out before the next was done.

So, I'm wondering,
Those that do large batches, what type of ratio do you feel comfortable with?
(ie. 25 gallons = 10 kegs, 20 kegs?)

 

[rohanski]

Can you just use a water heater turned up real high for the strike water and sparge? I don't know how high they go but I know they heat up pretty fast.

 

[Wort*hog]

My thought on it is you get a bunch of brewing out of the way so you can hone and specialize on specialty beers. Had a few large parties this summer and ran out. Had to make a $200.00 beer run in the middle of a party. Bought a variety of 3.2 utah beer. Very unsatisfying to me but it was standard fair for the party goers. They were happy with it. Why not brew mega batches for them and get it out of the way? Home brew is like sex. The worst I ever had was fantastic!

20 kegs is good. The more the better. I wish my home had appreciated as much as my kegs have in the past year. Last year I got 4 from More Beer (tm) for $80 not they're $120. Do the math!

 

[B-Dub]

Just my 2 cents.

I brew 2-13 gallon batches most brew days. That nets me 4 five gallon kegs of good beer. It takes me 7 to 8 hours from start to finish.

Hear is a picture of my setup. BW Brewing

Before building the brew stand my back would be pretty sore after lifting all the water and mash.

14 kegs= 5 kegs on tap, 4 in conditioning fridge (34deg), I can transfer the 4 fermenters into kegs and cool in ferm fridge and 1 of Tree Top Apple Hooch

 

[p4ck37p1mp]

I started out 7-8 years ago doing AG on a B3 rig doing 10 gallons, so I started out bigger than most and doing AG from the get go (and fly sparging too, just how I learned). Having said that I got back into it a couple years ago, simple 5g setup doing extract. I got tired of running out much as you have. I sat down and thought about it, ended up getting a kegging setup first because bottling sucks and takes a lot of time. This helped, as extract I could do two batches a day easy. I then got a 30g kettle off Instawares ($115) and did 20 gallon partial mash batches while building the MLT (120qt cooler), between getting it planned and built I bet I did 3-4 20 gallon partial mashes, so it can be done. I was using a 50 foot IC, this I would NOT recommend, it takes forever. Next step was getting back to AG, used two 5g HLTs and swapped between them to fly sparge, not recommended, pain. Got pumps to make things easier. Got another 30 gallon HLT, much less pain. I just use 4 6.5 gallon carboys per batch, but I am going towards conicals. Check out Norwesco inductor tanks, several threads on people using inductor tanks to make plastic conicals. In other words, it can be done. I will say, be very diligent on brew day and triple check your recipes. Also, order grain in bulk with some local brewers, saves you a ton. Get your sparging down to maximize your efficiency, this will save a lot of grain per batch. Obviously learning how to do AG and get good efficiency would be better served with 10g batches, which you CAN do in the 30g+ kettles. In other words, you can get a big kettle and do extract and keg it while building the AG setup. It IS the reverse of what most brewers are going to tell you.

 

[Kilgore_Trout]

 

[RonRock]

I know a guy that did 60 gallon batches at a time.
Crappy picture, but you get the idea.

 

[Jaybird]

I would be curious to see how the system is shaping up

 

[mw20]

I think I would jump to 10 gallons before 25. And extract would be expensive. After the initial cost of ag equipment, it gets a lot cheaper to brew.

 

[salzar]

Think most people missing the point, there is no harm in buying a 30gal kettle, and then using it for smaller batches. The Original poster was concerned with having to buy gear in the future, and the big kettle doesnt hurt small batches

 

[pzack]

Wow....lots of equipment here. I would love to build a brew tree and setup like that. Where is that McMaster-Carr catalog....

 

[Biermann]

I do 20 gallon batches. Started at 5, went to 10, now at 20. I have more beer than I could ever feasibly drink. Especially since my wife divorced me, and my GF has celiac.

Personally, I just like the brew bling.

 

[nosmatt]

delete that post above please.
i would like to see this thread continue.
would like an update from the O.P. but he has been dormant a while....

 

[nosmatt]

nevermind.
someone already did!

damn your fast post deleting fairy!

 

[salzar]

Just got a 20gal kettle from the big B3 sale for 125 somthing, now to get it welded. And work out the logistics of not breaking my back with mashing