Motorized Grain Mills: Time to show them off!

[pola0502ds]

Thanks buddy, I will have to check when i get home which motor I have. I know is has 40 in/lbs of torque and the motor is running CCW.

 

[Dgonza9]

Which direction are you running the motor when milling CCW or CW?

Reason I'm asking is the Gear Motor 5-1098 is designed to run CCW (viewed from the wiring end). If run CW it has far less torque available.

And another thought. If you got this Gear Motor 5-1074 it has far less torque available in either direction as well as a much lower speed.

P-J

Hmmmm... Given the way my mill works I need a motor that turns the mill clockwise. Did you flip the internal rollers on your mill?

When I used this motor, it did jam a lot. It really is a torque issue, although I ran mine spinning clockwise when looking from the back of the motor and CCW when looking from the front.

That was the only way to do it unless you flip the rollers in your mill or something, no?

 

[MazdaMatt]

Can anybody comment on the torque requirement for a modified pasta/clay roller? I have a motor from a large fan that I KNOW is smaller than most of what I've seen in this thread. I'm willing to gear the hell out of it and let it take an hour to mill a brew's worth of grain.

 

[P-J]

Hmmmm... Given the way my mill works I need a motor that turns the mill clockwise. Did you flip the internal rollers on your mill?

When I used this motor, it did jam a lot. It really is a torque issue, although I ran mine spinning clockwise when looking from the back of the motor and CCW when looking from the front.

That was the only way to do it unless you flip the rollers in your mill or something, no?

I know you solved your issue with a stronger motor but, yes, one would need to flip the rollers and then the mill so that the rotation is correct.

The motor torque issue is due to the way the start and run windings are made. Reversing the motor the way that Surplus Center shows is really not correct.

Another way would be to expose the start and run winding connection within the motor and then wire them externally so that the direction could be reversed using full torque. But that is a mission most would not attempt.

Take a look at the Grain Mill Project to see what is involved.

P-J

 

[pola0502ds]

Which direction are you running the motor when milling CCW or CW?

Reason I'm asking is the Gear Motor 5-1098 is designed to run CCW (viewed from the wiring end). If run CW it has far less torque available.

And another thought. If you got this Gear Motor 5-1074 it has far less torque available in either direction as well as a much lower speed.

P-J

PJ,

I do have the 5-1098 motor and it is in fact running CCW. However, if I run it CW the motor sounds different than it does going CCW. It sounds louder, does this at all mean that maybe your statement is false and it needs to run CW. It just sounds like it's working harder.

Next, I modified the hopper so that there is only a 1/2" x 1" slot in it for the grain to pass through to get to the rolls and that solved the problem for now. I am now just worried that if I get a tig or something other than grain into the rollers that it will jamb, and with a 10#'s in the hopper.

 

[pola0502ds]

Hmmmm... Given the way my mill works I need a motor that turns the mill clockwise. Did you flip the internal rollers on your mill?

When I used this motor, it did jam a lot. It really is a torque issue, although I ran mine spinning clockwise when looking from the back of the motor and CCW when looking from the front.

That was the only way to do it unless you flip the rollers in your mill or something, no?

The way i got my motor to run CCW was to flip the whole grain mill unit so the rollers spin towards each other instead of away from each other base on my motor.

On the JPS malt mill the rollers are not centered from top to bottom, when you get your JPS malt mill the rollers are closer to the bottom than the top so now when you flip it over, the rollers are closer to the top than the bottom. I think this has something to do with the issues I am having because the rollers are so close to the top of the unit now. I don't know.

 

[ChuckO]

Here is a picture of my mill.

Take a look a the picture, I have a lot of you have the same motor and I have a question.

Have you add any problems with the motor jambing because you have to much grain in the hopper. I do all the time. I wonder if I need to close up the exit portion of the hopper to limit how much grain hits the rollers at once.

I think that your hopper design might be part of the cause of your jamming problem. A narrow, tall hopper puts more weight of grain on the rollers to begin with. A tapered hopper wider and longer would put more of the weight on the hopper itself.

I'm using that motor with a three roller Crankandstein and am using a 5 gal. water jug as a hopper. I have a plate on top of the mill with a 3/8" by 4 1/2" slot directly above the roller gap. Above that is a block of wood bored out to fit the neck of the water jug. The first trials with 14 lbs. of grain had no problems that weren't operator caused. The weight of the grain was spread out over the entire surface of the jug, not just over the rollers.

 

[Dgonza9]

I think that your hopper design might be part of the cause of your jamming problem. A narrow, tall hopper puts more weight of grain on the rollers to begin with. A tapered hopper wider and longer would put more of the weight on the hopper itself.

I'm using that motor with a three roller Crankandstein and am using a 5 gal. water jug as a hopper. I have a plate on top of the mill with a 3/8" by 4 1/2" slot directly above the roller gap. Above that is a block of wood bored out to fit the neck of the water jug. The first trials with 14 lbs. of grain had no problems that weren't operator caused. The weight of the grain was spread out over the entire surface of the jug, not just over the rollers.

Many people have said this works. Another way to solve this Problem is a motor with more torque. I think the 40in/lb motor is undersized for the task. However, it seems some have found ways to make it work. Perhaps if I'd flip my rollers to run motor ccw...

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, it takes about ten minutes to convert a Barley Crusher from CW to CCW rotation of the driving roller. Here's a quicky "How To":

Remove the two screws and nuts holding the hopper and remove it. Unbolt the mill it from the base, unscrew and remove the front/back plates, wiggle the end plates apart, take the driving roller out, and flip it end-for-end before reinserting it into the end plates.

Reattach the front/back plates (but leave the screws a bit loose) and place the mill right-side-up with the handle shaft on the same side of the base as before (so the front is now the back, etc). Reattach the base (again, leave the bolts a bit loose), then attach the handle crank. Rotate the crank slowly, looking for any "hitching" that would indicate misaligned bearings, then press down on all four plates so they are flat to the base, and start snugging up the screws for the front/back plates and the two mounting bolts until they're all tight and the crank moves freely. If the crank develops a "hitch", loosen everything up and try again.


Thanks, P-J, for the information on the (very popular) 5-1098 gear motor. I was about to design my grinding station/cabinet so your post was very timely! While many have had no problems running it in reverse (CW) with Barley Crushers, I prefer optimal operation over just being lucky

Cheers!

 

[Dgonza9]

fwiw, it takes about ten minutes to convert a Barley Crusher from CW to CCW rotation of the driving roller. Here's a quicky "How To":

Remove the two screws and nuts holding the hopper and remove it. Unbolt the mill it from the base, unscrew and remove the front/back plates, wiggle the end plates apart, take the driving roller out, and flip it end-for-end before reinserting it into the end plates.

Reattach the front/back plates (but leave the screws a bit loose) and place the mill right-side-up with the handle shaft on the same side of the base as before (so the front is now the back, etc). Reattach the base (again, leave the bolts a bit loose), then attach the handle crank. Rotate the crank slowly, looking for any "hitching" that would indicate misaligned bearings, then press down on all four plates so they are flat to the base, and start snugging up the screws for the front/back plates and the two mounting bolts until they're all tight and the crank moves freely. If the crank develops a "hitch", loosen everything up and try again.


Thanks, P-J, for the information on the (very popular) 5-1098 gear motor. I was about to design my grinding station/cabinet so your post was very timely! While many have had no problems running it in reverse (CW) with Barley Crushers, I prefer optimal operation over just being lucky

Cheers!

I would've tried this, but I have a 3 roller mill. Plus, honestly, when I put the mill into reverse to clear it, it seemed to jam up just as frequently. Anyway, I'm happy with my new mill and glad you guys are having success with this motor. It sure is a hell of a deal. I paid 4 times that for my 120 in/lb bodine motor. And that was actually a pretty good price.

 

[Dgonza9]

What about this motor for a mill?

I guess it does require a start relay that is not included and has that open fan at the back. 60 in/lbs is probably solid on torque and it runs CW. Price is right!

 

[Dgonza9]

HERE'S ANOTHER good motor and a nice price.

Although you'd have to buy the capacitor separately. Still...

My mill is built, but I'm still looking at motors on ebay. WTF?

 

[pola0502ds]

What about this motor for a mill?

I guess it does require a start relay that is not included and has that open fan at the back. 60 in/lbs is probably solid on torque and it runs CW. Price is right!

Although it has 20 in/lbs, it runs at a very slow speed. Not to sure I would consider that..

 

[pola0502ds]

HERE'S ANOTHER good motor and a nice price.

Although you'd have to buy the capacitor separately. Still...

My mill is built, but I'm still looking at motors on ebay. WTF?

This motor is way better then the other one I just commented on. It has a shlt load more torque but it still runs at a slower speed. If I am not mistaken, with RPMS there is a certain point where if it is running too slow it stops working well? I would choose this one over the other one. Looks like this motor runs at 80 RPM.

 

[Dgonza9]

Although it has 20 in/lbs, it runs at a very slow speed. Not to sure I would consider that..

My understanding is that the speed only matters in terms of how long it takes to crush, at least on the low end. On the high end you risk shredding your grain. But on the low end, I don't think it matters. That's just what I've read, so if anyone has more information, please chime in to correct.

As far as speed, I crushed 32lbs of grain last weekend at 85 RPM. Didn't take long at all with my MM3 1.5" rollers. It was done in minutes. I pretty much had to stay right there as it was filling the bucket so fast.

The tradeoff with higher RPM's is lower torque. So I say go lower. I love knowing my mill won't be jamming on me. for $30, that motor is a pretty good deal. I have a nice bodine with lots of torque now, but it was 5 times that price.

Just a thought for those of you still designing your mills!

 

[Dgonza9]

This motor is way better then the other one I just commented on. It has a shlt load more torque but it still runs at a slower speed. If I am not mistaken, with RPMS there is a certain point where if it is running too slow it stops working well? I would choose this one over the other one. Looks like this motor runs at 80 RPM.

Yeah, honestly this is a good deal for someone looking for a mill motor. Plenty of torque for those tougher grains like wheat and carapils. I would've jumped at this one. $110 delivered for a new bodine motor in the right RPM and torque range is a solid deal. Oh well, at least I can say mine didn't require a capacitor, though I spent like $50 more and got 30 in/bs more torque.

No, I'm not the guy selling it.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

HERE'S ANOTHER good motor and a nice price.

Although you'd have to buy the capacitor separately. Still...

My mill is built, but I'm still looking at motors on ebay. WTF?

I got one of those 42R5BFCI-E3 motors to make a mash stirrer with for the 60 gallon system a few years back for $65 on ebay, always wondered if it would make a good mill motor, now I know...... still in the box after putting a capacitor and cord on and testing (and daring my friends to try to stop the shaft with their bare hands ;-)

 

[RonRock]

HERE'S ANOTHER good motor and a nice price.

Although you'd have to buy the capacitor separately. Still...

My mill is built, but I'm still looking at motors on ebay. WTF?

Thanks for the pointer. I received mine yesterday. I offered 75.00 and it was accepted. Fast shipper. Now I need to get the capacitor and coupler.

Looks like he still has 3 available.

 

[Catt22]

If I am not mistaken, with RPMS there is a certain point where if it is running too slow it stops working well? I would choose this one over the other one. Looks like this motor runs at 80 RPM.

The only issue with a lower rpm motor is that it takes a bit longer to get the job done, but 80 rpm will work just fine. One nice benefit of a lower rpm motor is that it will generate much less dust. The most important thing is to have sufficient torque and generally, 50 inch-lbs is about the minimum recommended for most mills. You can get buy with somewhat less torque, but you may have trouble milling from a dead stop with a full hopper. 100-200 rpm would be ideal IMO and above 300 rpm not so much. You can compensate for a higher rpm motor by widening the mill gap a bit to reduce shredding issues, but you would still have to deal with the flour dust. I'm running with a 115 rpm Bodine @ 68 inch-lbs of torque. Works perfectly. A bit on the slow side, but it requires no attention when milling, so I just fill the hopper and let 'er rip while I do something else. Even a large grain bill for a 12 gallon batch only takes about 15-20 minutes to mill. The slower speed really isn't even a minor inconvenience.

 

[RonRock]

Can anyone tell me how to wire this? I would like to have a single switch with Fwd/Off/Rev.

 

[matt415]

heres mine
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/motorized-mill-re-purposing-paper-shredder-263759/

 

[P-J]

Can anyone tell me how to wire this? I would like to have a single switch with Fwd/Off/Rev.

Here you go:

Link to the switch:
grainger.com - Toggle Switch 2TNZ7
Link to the motor:
BODINE1/6 HP GEARMOTOR 42R5BFCI-E3

HTH

Ha: Now you owe me.!

 

[RonRock]

Cheers to you P-J.

Thank You.
Ron

 

[Dgonza9]

Thanks for the pointer. I received mine yesterday. I offered 75.00 and it was accepted. Fast shipper. Now I need to get the capacitor and coupler.

Looks like he still has 3 available.

You got a nice deal there. Congrats!

 

[RonRock]

Yeah Dgonza9, I have ordered the coupler and capacitor. I'll order a switch tomorrow and hopefully ready to test it out this week. This motor is a beast of a thing. I'm sure it will do all I ask of it. Last I looked there were 2 left.

I have been looking for a deal on a motor for some time. I almost went with the Surplus Center 177 rpm motor. But knew that it would be marginal with my 3 roller. So far I'm glad I waited. We'll know soon.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Dgonza9]

Yeah Dgonza9, I have ordered the coupler and capacitor. I'll order a switch tomorrow and hopefully ready to test it out this week. This motor is a beast of a thing. I'm sure it will do all I ask of it. Last I looked there were 2 left.

I have been looking for a deal on a motor for some time. I almost went with the Surplus Center 177 rpm motor. But knew that it would be marginal with my 3 roller. So far I'm glad I waited. We'll know soon.

Thanks,
Ron

Got her up and running yet?

 

[HollisBrewCo]

Im not totally happy with mine (jams ALL THE TIME !) but its a moster mill MM3. check it out here http://hollisbrewco.blogspot.com/2011/09/brewery-tour.html

 

[RonRock]

Got her up and running yet?

I'm sorry to say not yet. I do have all of the hardware rounded up. I hope to get some work done this week.

 

[Dgonza9]

Im not totally happy with mine (jams ALL THE TIME !) but its a moster mill MM3. check it out here http://hollisbrewco.blogspot.com/2011/09/brewery-tour.html

How much torque does your motor have? I ran mine at 40 in/lbs and it jammed constantly. I wound up getting a much larger motor, 120 in/lbs. Now it runs very smoothly.

Could be your motor. How many rpms are you running at? How much torque?

 

[Spartan1979]

Here's mine. The box was just made out of material I salvaged from an old entertainment center. The motor turns at about 107 rpm. I wish it was just a bit faster. I need to redo the hopper. I had cut a door for it, but I decided it wasn't really necessary.