A little while back I built an eBIAB setup and it has worked very well so far. I originally was planning on buying a pump after I got used to all grain, but recently found a thread that uses a motor to stir the grain while mashing (instead of using a pump to recirculate). Is there any benefit to using a pump instead of a motor? or is it just personal preference?
Motor or Pump?
- Thread starter JEnglish
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northcal
Well-Known Member
With a pump you can add heat to the mash without adding hot water or direct heat. You still need to stir it.
With a motor to stir you still need to add heat.
I think they are for two different applications?
I have a pump and just stir it by hand, gives me a little bit of exercise in between homebrews!
With a motor to stir you still need to add heat.
I think they are for two different applications?
I have a pump and just stir it by hand, gives me a little bit of exercise in between homebrews!
The PID in my control panel will take care of any heating issues I may run into. Im just wondering if recirculating the wort with a pump or using a motor to constantly stir/agitate the wort will give me the most consistent temps throughout the grain bed. Sorry I should have been more clear in the OP
craigmw
Well-Known Member
A pump is useful not just for recirculation (to keep mash temp even and enhance starch extraction, but also for whirlpooling and running your wort through a chiller. They are handy to have around. I don't really see the advantage of a motor for BIAB.
I don't have a pump or a motor. I stir my finely milled grains in until the temperature is pretty much the same, then put the lid on the pot. I don't have to do a 2 hour mash. Since my grains are milled fine, I have full conversion in under 30 minutes, indeed it seems like less than 10 are really needed. My mash temperature hardly changes in that 30 minutes and I get over 80% brewhouse efficiency.
From that perspective it looks to me like you are mostly looking for a way to spend money and complicate what is a very simple process.
From that perspective it looks to me like you are mostly looking for a way to spend money and complicate what is a very simple process.
haeffnkr
Well-Known Member
From all my recent experiences with EBIAB, pumps and motors....I can tell you from experience that brewing EBIAB and BIAB are way different... much more than I imagined -
A motor is a lot cheaper than a pump
A motor (and a stirring propellor) is a lot easier to clean than a pump
If you can gravity feed your water/wort then you dont need a pump in a EBIAB setup at all
A motor does not cause scorching of wort when your bag is full wort and you dry fire your element
You can use a motor to stir mash and keep spot on mash temps with no statification
You can use a motor to stir when heating wort up to a boil so it does not scorch and use it for cooling wort with a IC
RM-MN -
Your points are valid for BIAB... but grinding too fine with a EBIAB setup will cause issues also... like scorched wort... ask me how I know
thanks Kevin
From all my recent experiences with EBIAB, pumps and motors....I can tell you from experience that brewing EBIAB and BIAB are way different... much more than I imagined -
RM-MN -
Your points are valid for BIAB... but grinding too fine with a EBIAB setup will cause issues also... like scorched wort... ask me how I know
thanks Kevin
Kevin,
I don't understand your claimed difference between EBIAB and BIAB. I EBIAB and it is really no different at all for me. EBIAB is only as complicated as one wants to make it...it can be stupid simple.
1. Fire electric element to reach strike temp
2. Add grain and bag
3. Insulate pot / mash for an hour
4. Stir well and remove mash
5. Boil wort
I also don't understand the perceived need to add recirculation, pids, pumps, and now stir motors? I think it is great all the fancy EBIAB rigs that people build, I also have the means and DIY skills to build one, but I just can't see how a complicated EBIAB rig will make my beer taste any better, or my brew session any less labor? If anything, it just may make a little more work IMO.
The only advantage I see to a "sophisticated or smart" EBIAB system is consistency in the brewing process, but as a homebrewer consistency really isn't my goal. I find hitting mash temps and holding those temps to within a reasonable tolerance is not that difficult.
Please don't take this as a knock at those that prefer a more involved process, I just can't see the need or much added benefit to your definition of EBIAB, but mostly it is the "perceived need" that is presented on HBT that I take exception with, and feel many more folks would be enjoying the fruits of EBIAB if they only knew how simple it can be.
Sincerely,
wilser
haeffnkr
Well-Known Member
Hello,
I do not take this as a knock, you have some good points.
I agree that for some people and or some peoples system it can be/is as simple as you stated above.
I have actually made a few early EBIAB batches as you state above and the beer was very good.
I actually miss the simplicity of my gas fired BIAB system when I did just what you are saying - heat water, put in bag/grain/stir/, put a sleeping bag over kettle, come back in 45-60 minutes, pull bag and fire up the burner and boil....but my EBIAB system does not work that well and I will never miss the roar of the gas burner and freezing my butt off.
That said -
My 2 or 3 goals with EBIAB can not be met with out some other system enhancements.... again my system and my goals.
My goals are -
to have un attended mashes for an hour
to have mash temps contstant for an hour with no temp stratification issues in the kettle
to not scorch the wort and make good beer (and make beer in doors
)In order to meet these goals I tried doing nothing, using a pump and using a stir motor and varying my grain grind (ie grind 1, 2 or 3 times)
So far - the only way I have been able to meet my goals with my setup are to use a stir motor and grind one time.
To your point -
Is my beer going to be any better or worse if my kettle temps vary 6-7 degrees top to bottom? maybe not
Is my beer going to be be any better if my mash temps slide a degree or 3 over the 45-60 minute mash time... maybe not
My wort will NOT scorch if I stir and stir and stir by hand ... who wants to stir by hand when I can do something else with my time?
BTW my beer has scorched when I did not stir and ground too fine.
Do I sleep better knowing, to your point, my process is consistent and repeatable, you bet I do.
The OP asked about the what is better, a pump or a stir motor, I firmly believe a stir motor is the answer.
This is turning into a differnet conversation than what the OP asked, but a good one none the less.
thanks Kevin
Largus1776
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haeffnkr,
I too have struggled with these same aspirations and limitations:
My goals are -
to have un attended mashes for an hour
to have mash temps contstant for an hour with no temp stratification issues in the kettle
to not scorch the wort and make good beer
-- although I am lucky in geography in that outdoors brewing is pleasant and preferred.
I have posted my effort at addressing these issues on a new thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-herms-via-outboard-rims-tube-build-458429/
Thanks
I too have struggled with these same aspirations and limitations:
My goals are -
to have un attended mashes for an hour
to have mash temps contstant for an hour with no temp stratification issues in the kettle
to not scorch the wort and make good beer
-- although I am lucky in geography in that outdoors brewing is pleasant and preferred.
I have posted my effort at addressing these issues on a new thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-herms-via-outboard-rims-tube-build-458429/
Thanks
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