More questions from a newbie

[Crash21]

I haven't used a yeast nutrient in any batches of cider I have made.
I've only made 4 now and 2 were completely undrinkable.
I've used Mangrove Jacks Cider yeast and Lavlin 1118.
So my question is when is yeast nutrient needed? And what is it?

I used Brown Sugar in all of my attempts. The latest has been my best result so far. It was a 60/40 mix of Apple and Pineapple juice.
I didn't realize that Brown Sugar has Molasses in it. Ive never been a big fan of molasses.
I am thinking of using Honey or Corn Sugar next time.
I realize that each gives its own flavor but can anyone describe the differences?

Thanks in advance and Happy Brewing!

 

[Hello]

Were the two that were undrinkable bad because you hate molasses or were they bad for other reasons?

Honey ferments out and in my opinion, will prolong the process because once the sugar is gone from honey, I find the taste to be something that I don't care for. Like a mead, I would have to age that cider if I used honey. Corn sugar simply ferments out and there is no residual sweetness or taste from it. You'll get a higher ABV cider. In order to get sweetness, you'd have to back sweeten. Of course, you'd need to stabilize it.

What makes you think you need yeast nutrient? I ask because I never bothered with it, even with a 9% apfelwein. The Lavalin 1118 ate through everything and then some. I've never used the Mangrove Jack yeast, but I do use Nottingham and yet still, no nutrient. If I were to use it though, I'd probably add it to a slurry with the yeast while rehydrating.

 

[Crash21]

The two that were bad were really bad..there was a bacterial issue. Probably from not sanitizing properly. They were my first two batches ever so I just chalk it up to experience.

Imo Molasses has an aftertaste I just don't care for. It's not that I taste Molasses and immediately lose my lunch..lol

As far as the nutrient goes I keep reading about using it and while I have never needed it (Although I wouldn't know if I needed it or not) I was just curious as to in what situation you would need it.

I had read that honey can give a smoother taste and leave more of the fruit flavor. I guess it just depends on what I like. I guess I really need to do more experimenting to find the one that works the best for me and my tastes.

Thanks for the info

 

[Maylar]

Apples (and honey) are notoriously low in nutrients that yeast need. If you ferment slowly at cool temperatures you can get away without adding any nutrients, but I always add some just to keep my yeasties happy.

 

[HoodedCrow]

If you add any significant amount of honey, you end up making a Cyser, which can be incredibly good, but needs to age for a year or more to be really delicious. I have made quite a bit of it, but it is not cider.

I have made several ciders (7 or 8), and the one I least enjoyed had sugar in it. Natural sugar and brown sugar both have molasses in them. Raw sugar has it in naturally, and brown sugar has had the molasses processed out of it and then added back in. This flavor can be good in some darker beers, but really doesn't fit a cider.

I tend to use EC-1118 and some pectic enzyme with my cider, and like to age it a lot. I made a batch of cider in September last year, and just bottled it a month ago. It will likely hit it's peak flavor and smoothness around Thanksgiving.

For me, the biggest thing is to start with good cider in the first place. I always buy locally pressed cider from a local orchard. A single apple cider can give you something especially good. My current stuff is made entirely from Mutsu apples, and a couple of years ago I hand pressed McIntosh apple and it was great.

I have used the cider from a grocery store once in an apple Cyser, and it had the yeast killing preservative (potassium sorbate) in it. They use a small amount,, so it won't kill your yeast. I added yeast energizer and yeast nutrient to that batch, and the fermentation started slow, but after a week it was bubbling like mad.

 

[Yooper]

I hate fermented molasses/brown sugar as it just tastes terrible to me. I don't love molasses anyway, but once the sugar is fermented out it's even worse.

My favorite ciders use no added sugar/fermentables. Just 100% good tasting cider, with some yeast to ferment it. That's it. Adding honey or sugar boosts the ABV, but takes away much of the "apple cider" flavor and gives more of a wine-like taste and finish. I do love apple wine, and make it every fall- but it's more of a dry white wine with a fruitiness to it, like a pinot grigio, instead of something that says "apple cider".