More Is Not Better

[GHBWNY]

My wife is constantly pointing out that I have a tendency to second-guess something good, thinking I can improve upon it. I do this with everything I get my hands on. The results invariably underscore her wisdom. Case in point:

Being winter in the northeast (whatever that has to do with anything), my last two brews have been (1.) a Smoked Wheat, and (2.) a Peppercorn Rye.

(1.) --- Prior to bottling, I tasted it and it tasted great; the smoked malt was just subtle enough to balance the wheat malt perfectly. Then, I thought, "If a little smoke is good, a little more is better." So, I followed Charlie Papazian's suggestion to use some liquid smoke, which I just happened to have on hand. His suggestion was a max of 2 tsp. per 5 gal (without having used smoked malt), so I added just 1 tsp. to a beer that was already smoky-OK as is. Ultimately, it was disgustingly (and obviously artificially) "hyper-smoked". Someone even asked me if I had put liquid smoke in it. Not a great endorsement. I can gag down one now and then, but it's an effort.

(2.) --- The recipe called for 2/3 cup of black peppercorns in a 5 gal boil. Since I like a peppery foods, I figured, "What would a couple extra teaspoons hurt?" in what a ended up being a 4.5 gal batch. While the original recipe suggested it would pair well with steak, I wouldn't pair this with my shoe! It's absolutely repulsive. The smell of pepper is so overwhelming before the glass gets to your lips, it makes you wonder if you should proceed. If you do, the taste is very peppery-weird. I CAN'T gag down one now and then, but it will make a good drain cleaner.

So, the lesson here is --- and don't anyone tell my wife I said this --- more is NOT better when it comes to a tried-and-true recipe. Especially when you don't know what the effect of arbitrarily tampering with it will be.

 

[Braufessor]

Yep - everyone has to learn that lesson the hard way...... and, if everyone else is like me, they have to learn it many times before it really sinks in. The best recipes and the best beers are almost always simpler.

When you brew a beer like the ones you described, and you really like it, the best course of action is to enjoy that batch of beer the way it is. Take a glass or two along the way and "dose it" with "more" of whatever you are curious about to see if "more" is better or worse. Ruin a pint of beer by putting a drop of liquid smoke in it, as opposed to the entire keg.

If you happen to actually find "more" to be better in one of your small samples, scale it up in a future batch.

 

[2trout]

My wife is constantly pointing out that I have a tendency to second-guess something good, thinking I can improve upon it. I do this with everything I get my hands on. The results invariably underscore her wisdom.

My wife often says I have a solution looking for a problem.

 

[brewcat]

They might be ok as a base for soup. Or maybe for a marinade.

 

[Azura]

Liquid smoke is never a good idea. Especially in beer.

 

[GHBWNY]

Liquid smoke is never a good idea. Especially in beer.

So I found out. It hasn't been a total bust --- I used a bottle to slow-cook some beef tenderloin in the Crock Pot. Best bottle so far!

 

[Auger]

My wife is constantly pointing out that I have a tendency to second-guess something good, thinking I can improve upon it. I do this with everything I get my hands on. The results invariably underscore her wisdom. Case in point:

Being winter in the northeast (whatever that has to do with anything), my last two brews have been (1.) a Smoked Wheat, and (2.) a Peppercorn Rye.

(1.) --- Prior to bottling, I tasted it and it tasted great; the smoked malt was just subtle enough to balance the wheat malt perfectly. Then, I thought, "If a little smoke is good, a little more is better." So, I followed Charlie Papazian's suggestion to use some liquid smoke, which I just happened to have on hand. His suggestion was a max of 2 tsp. per 5 gal (without having used smoked malt), so I added just 1 tsp. to a beer that was already smoky-OK as is. Ultimately, it was disgustingly (and obviously artificially) "hyper-smoked". Someone even asked me if I had put liquid smoke in it. Not a great endorsement. I can gag down one now and then, but it's an effort.

(2.) --- The recipe called for 2/3 cup of black peppercorns in a 5 gal boil. Since I like a peppery foods, I figured, "What would a couple extra teaspoons hurt?" in what a ended up being a 4.5 gal batch. While the original recipe suggested it would pair well with steak, I wouldn't pair this with my shoe! It's absolutely repulsive. The smell of pepper is so overwhelming before the glass gets to your lips, it makes you wonder if you should proceed. If you do, the taste is very peppery-weird. I CAN'T gag down one now and then, but it will make a good drain cleaner.

So, the lesson here is --- and don't anyone tell my wife I said this --- more is NOT better when it comes to a tried-and-true recipe. Especially when you don't know what the effect of arbitrarily tampering with it will be.

I did a similar thing but with clove. I had never brewed with it before, so I used some in the boil. It tasted good post fermentation, decent, subtle clove notes, so I figured, maybe I can *really* make it pop if I dry-hop with clove as well (dry-clove?). Terrible idea. Every sip was like, I feel like I'm drinking a Christmas ham, and not in a good way.

 

[JimRausch]

Yes, I like to experiment, but sometimes those experiments don't turn out so well. Make sure you take plenty of accurate notes so you won't make the same mistake twice.......

 

[Smellyglove]

The sooner one get these experiences, the better. It teaches one a lesson about trusting your original recipe, and when to see if, and when it needs an adjustment. And also the effects of tampering with things.

 

[Azura]

So I found out. It hasn't been a total bust --- I used a bottle to slow-cook some beef tenderloin in the Crock Pot. Best bottle so far!

Bad beer can make good food. You could also blend some of your Liquid Smoke beer with a cheap pro Amber ale. If you need more than 20% Amber ale to make it drinkable, then you really slammed that beer with Liquid Smoke!

 

[BrewZer]

So I found out. It hasn't been a total bust --- I used a bottle to slow-cook some beef tenderloin in the Crock Pot. Best bottle so far!

Don't forget brats, sausages and hot dogs...

 

[JPBrewLI]

Made some beer battered shrimp a couple weeks ago, beer batter good

 

[Shwagger]

KISS

Homebrewers tend to take things too seriously or over thinking eveythever

Not me however

 

[Jayjay1976]

I keep wanting to experiment with adding spices, but I just know I'm prone to overdoing things and can't leave well enough alone. I think its a guy thing, the urge to 'fix' everything. I think I'll wait till I can make a good, solid, repeatable beer first before I start messing with other ingredients.

 

[GHBWNY]

I think its a guy thing, the urge to 'fix' everything.

Amen.

 

[secondbase]

I tend to be pretty cautious with ingredients in my beer. I'll typically brew a tried and true recipe to see if I like it, and then tweak it for my liking. I don't think I'd ever use liquid smoke in a beer. eep.

 

[Miraculix]

My wife is constantly pointing out that I have a tendency to second-guess something good, thinking I can improve upon it. I do this with everything I get my hands on. The results invariably underscore her wisdom. Case in point:

Being winter in the northeast (whatever that has to do with anything), my last two brews have been (1.) a Smoked Wheat, and (2.) a Peppercorn Rye.

(1.) --- Prior to bottling, I tasted it and it tasted great; the smoked malt was just subtle enough to balance the wheat malt perfectly. Then, I thought, "If a little smoke is good, a little more is better." So, I followed Charlie Papazian's suggestion to use some liquid smoke, which I just happened to have on hand. His suggestion was a max of 2 tsp. per 5 gal (without having used smoked malt), so I added just 1 tsp. to a beer that was already smoky-OK as is. Ultimately, it was disgustingly (and obviously artificially) "hyper-smoked". Someone even asked me if I had put liquid smoke in it. Not a great endorsement. I can gag down one now and then, but it's an effort.

(2.) --- The recipe called for 2/3 cup of black peppercorns in a 5 gal boil. Since I like a peppery foods, I figured, "What would a couple extra teaspoons hurt?" in what a ended up being a 4.5 gal batch. While the original recipe suggested it would pair well with steak, I wouldn't pair this with my shoe! It's absolutely repulsive. The smell of pepper is so overwhelming before the glass gets to your lips, it makes you wonder if you should proceed. If you do, the taste is very peppery-weird. I CAN'T gag down one now and then, but it will make a good drain cleaner.

So, the lesson here is --- and don't anyone tell my wife I said this --- more is NOT better when it comes to a tried-and-true recipe. Especially when you don't know what the effect of arbitrarily tampering with it will be.

Hahaha, this could have totally been me

As a person who routinely overdoes things as well, I fully agree... And please don't tell my girlfriend...

 

[S-Met]

One of mf good friends frequently reminds me, "the enemy of good is better." Not that I listen, but it is a good point.

I also say, "you can't find the limit if you don't push beyond." This one gets me in trouble sometimes, but great things can result. Chalk this one up as a learning experience. Its only a failure if you make the same mistake again.

 

[Vandulus]

Long ago I learned from cooking it's easier to add a little at a time, taste, then add more if needed. Once you go over that taste threshold though it a royal pain to compensate for over flavoring or salting. Most of my flavor additions are done at bottling time via extracts or tinctures where they're slowly added and sampled until I find the right balance. I've also learned to err on the side of subtlety.

 

[oceanic_brew]

I’m personally sick of “one ingredient front and center” beers. Everything I’m designing lately is centered around having each ingredient make sense and work together. Everything else just seems likely novelty to me.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I have a similar compulsion. I like to put a twist on my beers. Instead of brewing a california common, I brew an imperial dry hopped california common. Or I take a simple kettle sour and add fruit and some dry hops, or fruit and lactose.

I just got accepted into the national homebrew comp. and I'm fighting the urge to put a twist on the styles I'm submitting. Every time I think about it, I have to yank myself back to a more pure version of the style. It's hard because I want my beer to stand out, but I don't know how to do that if I'm restricted to conforming to the style. I'll be fighting myself the entire way.

 

[Braufessor]

I have a similar compulsion. I like to put a twist on my beers. Instead of brewing a california common, I brew an imperial dry hopped california common. Or I take a simple kettle sour and add fruit and some dry hops, or fruit and lactose.

I just got accepted into the national homebrew comp. and I'm fighting the urge to put a twist on the styles I'm submitting. Every time I think about it, I have to yank myself back to a more pure version of the style. It's hard because I want my beer to stand out, but I don't know how to do that if I'm restricted to conforming to the style. I'll be fighting myself the entire way.

In general, "putting a twist" on a beer is precisely the wrong thing to do for a beer competition. If you do that, you need to enter it in some kind of specialty, fruit, spiced, wild type category ..... that is what those categories are for. You list a "base" style, and then what you did to it to make it different. So, that is the route to take for those types of beers.

If you are thinking that adding cherries to your blonde ale is going to make it different than all the other blonde ales in its category...... well, you are right, it will stand out. However, you might as well take $14 out and light it on fire because it is going to stand out as being "out of style."

I will say, in my experience, pushing the ends of a category, while remaining in the category is generally more successful though. Higher end of gravity for dark beers for instance, higher end of hops for pale ales and IPA's, extremely clean and brightly clear for lagers..... essentially, what is the "hallmark" of a particular style - and then be toward the top end of the range for that particular trait for those kinds of beers.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

In general, "putting a twist" on a beer is precisely the wrong thing to do for a beer competition. If you do that, you need to enter it in some kind of specialty, fruit, spiced, wild type category ..... that is what those categories are for. You list a "base" style, and then what you did to it to make it different. So, that is the route to take for those types of beers.

If you are thinking that adding cherries to your blonde ale is going to make it different than all the other blonde ales in its category...... well, you are right, it will stand out. However, you might as well take $14 out and light it on fire because it is going to stand out as being "out of style."

I will say, in my experience, pushing the ends of a category, while remaining in the category is generally more successful though. Higher end of gravity for dark beers for instance, higher end of hops for pale ales and IPA's, extremely clean and brightly clear for lagers..... essentially, what is the "hallmark" of a particular style - and then be toward the top end of the range for that particular trait for those kinds of beers.

Thanks for the input. That's pretty much what I have in mind. I'm going to try to brew the best possible beer I can within the description for the style.

 

[GHBWNY]

It's probably just me, but every time I brew, I always prejudge a recipe, no matter how good it sounds, or how well "everyone else" likes it, which challenges me to create the beer to end ALL beers! Then I am compelled by pride to "go one better" in vain hope of arbitrarily stumbling upon something no one else has ever tasted. As per the above two beers, I succeeded in creating something no one else has ever tasted, or would ever want to! Obviously, I have a problem trusting that a recipe will give me what I want. Maybe if I give it a chance, it WILL give me what I want --- and more.