MM2, 3 - Losing set? Cranken?

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Gadjobrinus

Gadjobrinus

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I thought I'd create a separate thread because the one I was reading wasn't quite the same.

I'm coming to finish with Spike over the next month (man, I'm so pleased with their workmanship), and next will be the grist handling setup. I'd planned on an MM 3 Pro turned by the AAA 180 motor, but some complaints about the MM's losing their set is a bit disconcerting, with one member preferring the Crankenstein. If true, that would suck.

I have to say, I am ancient in the world of equipment (and today's hop varieties) - I used a fixed Schmidling MM, and through 1000's of pounds, thing performed like a champ. Grist mix was awesome, and stayed that way. So to lose that every brew and to have to reset would be a bummer, if true.
 
THat's good info, thanks, Brick. I'm seen they have a "Standard 1144 Steel," and stainless rollers. Is the standard hardened - are these what you have?

What are you driving it with, if you don't mind me asking?

Edit: Sorry, I'm seeing that among the other variations, the heat treated is an option. Which actual model do you have? Is it motor coupling/drill/pulley driven?
 
I use the three roller crankandstein with the aaw motor. It's a solid set up. The adjustment knobs have indents that you click through to lock it in place. Then you can clamp down the screws to make it extremely secure.

I believe the mm units have a thumb screw to secure the gap setting. I could see that loosening and causing the rollers to slip out of its setting.

I have a few friends that own the mm and they love them. I doubt it's a problem effecting the entire line of mills. Bad news travels fast on this forum.
 
Thanks DCP, never even looked at his site till now. Needs consideration, comparison, etc., esp. given the pretty significant price difference. Appreciate your post.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
THat's good info, thanks, Brick. I'm seen they have a "Standard 1144 Steel," and stainless rollers. Is the standard hardened - are these what you have?

What are you driving it with, if you don't mind me asking?

Edit: Sorry, I'm seeing that among the other variations, the heat treated is an option. Which actual model do you have? Is it motor coupling/drill/pulley driven?
Click to expand...



When I ordered mine they only offered the standard model, then you could add options, 2" rollers, stainless rollers and hardened rollers. The hardened rollers, like mine, came with 2" rollers and 1/2" shafts.
Mine is driven by a 1hp farm duty 1750 rpm motor with 12" and 1.5" pulleys with belt.
It has never slipped, stalled, stuck, cut any fingers off etc.
 
I have the MM2.0 with the AAW motor for about 2 years maybe longer. I set my gap at .33 and never had to change it. It never slipped. Love the set up and would highly recommend it. It is a beast!
 
Great, thanks guys. Helps alot.

And Brick, good man, Django Reinhardt could play like a demon with the use of only 3 fingers on his right hand....but brewing, as we all know, demands the totality of our very being.:tank:

Alright, sorry, just can't help it. If you're into swing, are smoking a version of Dark Eyes, the Roma anthem, really. Dorado Schmidt on lead guitar, his son on another guitar, bunch of great players. Guy in the still here, between the percussion and Dorado Schmidt, is Angelo DeBarre, who most consider the sort of wizard of this music.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The kegco 3 roller mill does have hardened steel roller as well as ball bearings instead of oil impregnated bushings and is identical to the MM3 except its metric and $139... quite possibly from the same chinese manufacturer that makes them for MM.

Edit** I later learned the MM3 is not made in China but is made in the states directly by MM.
 
I have a 3 roller MM w/the AAA motor setup. I set the gap almost 3 years ago and put marks on the adjustment knobs. They have moved yet!
It is important to remove your mill bin every now & then (depending on how often you brew) and clean it out. I thoroughly vacuum after each use.
 
Thank you everybody for your thoughts, gives me some options to think on. A few things, I guess.

-oil-impregnated v. ball-bearing based rollers. Thoughts on durability, drift?

-I actually have had the Kegco on my Amazon cart a long time (order of acquisition for me is vessels, frame, milling, lab materials, then go....oh, old expensive books that I stupidly sold off and want back again). Can the Kegco be driven with a motor, like the 180 HP AAW motor, are are you relegated for the most part to driving with a drill (without a keyed shaft). When I saw it I thought it was the Monster Mill. If you own it, I know it's a tough question to be asked, but is it made well? Durable?

-To be honest, I've only used a 2 roller mill. That was a JSP, fixed-gap MM. I got great results. Of course, I was very English in my usage and didn't do any wheat-intensive or adjunct beers, for example. And though I was very happy with my grist (never passed it through a set of sieves, so don't know all visual and taste-testing), no idea how much more my efficiency and grist would have been improved with the addition of a 3rd roller. What do you guys think? How important has that 3rd roller been for you, those that use them, and 2 roller guys, do you feel like you're missing out?

-Finally, explosions. I believe I'll be milling in a fairly confined space. (Perfect fermentation room in the basement, but I don't know I can keep it as sanitized as I'd like). I know nothing of this hazard and always milled outside. Anything to think of here?

Thanks all.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
-I actually have had the Kegco on my Amazon cart a long time (order of acquisition for me is vessels, frame, milling, lab materials, then go....oh, old expensive books that I stupidly sold off and want back again). Can the Kegco be driven with a motor, like the 180 HP AAW motor, are are you relegated for the most part to driving with a drill (without a keyed shaft). When I saw it I thought it was the Monster Mill. If you own it, I know it's a tough question to be asked, but is it made well? Durable?
Click to expand...

Here's some good info on the Kegco Mill ?
 
Gadjobrinus said:
-Finally, explosions. I believe I'll be milling in a fairly confined space. (Perfect fermentation room in the basement, but I don't know I can keep it as sanitized as I'd like). I know nothing of this hazard and always milled outside. Anything to think of here?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...



Exploding grain dust wouldn't concern me as much as the sanitation risk from mill dust in a small confined fermentation area.

Best practice to separate your milling from cold side due to lacto present on grain.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Thank you everybody for your thoughts, gives me some options to think on. A few things, I guess.

-oil-impregnated v. ball-bearing based rollers. Thoughts on durability, drift?

-I actually have had the Kegco on my Amazon cart a long time (order of acquisition for me is vessels, frame, milling, lab materials, then go....oh, old expensive books that I stupidly sold off and want back again). Can the Kegco be driven with a motor, like the 180 HP AAW motor, are are you relegated for the most part to driving with a drill (without a keyed shaft). When I saw it I thought it was the Monster Mill. If you own it, I know it's a tough question to be asked, but is it made well? Durable?

-To be honest, I've only used a 2 roller mill. That was a JSP, fixed-gap MM. I got great results. Of course, I was very English in my usage and didn't do any wheat-intensive or adjunct beers, for example. And though I was very happy with my grist (never passed it through a set of sieves, so don't know all visual and taste-testing), no idea how much more my efficiency and grist would have been improved with the addition of a 3rd roller. What do you guys think? How important has that 3rd roller been for you, those that use them, and 2 roller guys, do you feel like you're missing out?

-Finally, explosions. I believe I'll be milling in a fairly confined space. (Perfect fermentation room in the basement, but I don't know I can keep it as sanitized as I'd like). I know nothing of this hazard and always milled outside. Anything to think of here?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of people driving the kegco with the motors...just look at the kegco thread, (I think you commented there a while back) one guy was able to compare the mm3 and kegco side by side and said they are virtually identical besides one being metric)

In fact Ive been driving my 2 roller cereal killer mill (appears to be made in the same factory as the kegco) with a gear reduction motor and belt and pulley system for over 3 years now with zero issues... The bearings allow for the side force from the pulley without issues that you cant reliably do with bronze bushings (think of a car door hinge sagging and how little that gets used compared to a mill as far as duration) No one has actually verified if the MM3 actually has bearings or if it uses the bronze bushings that it (and kegcos description) states... We know the kegco uses bearings. Its a bit odd that kegcos spec description is word for word identical to monster mills which leads one to believe they are from the same factory (or a damn good clone at 1/3 the price)

For the nano we've been told milling in the brew room is a no no I thought with electric it would be ok but I guessed wrong.... We actually plan on milling around the corner from the brew room outside as many nano breweries do.
 
So, 6" x 1.5" d rollers, the MM pros are 2" diameter. They indicate hardened steel, but I'm not sure if that's different from the hardening result with the MM "Heat treated - keyed" option. Aluminum hopper v. galvanized (standard) or ss (+$45) from MM.

I have to be honest. I hate spending more than I need. I also hate buying low, only to regret it down the road. There's a part of me that is nagged feeling this is too good to be true. And a part, I am really just being honest here, that is a bit bugged, if indeed Kegco essentially just lifted MM's design in toto, made no improvements, nothing - and merely undercut MM on the market.

I'm no angel, just my thoughts. Thanks, Augie, for going further with your thoughts, here.
 
Oh - motor - do you happen to know if most use the AAW 180 HP, like many with the MM do? I'll look for the Kegco thread...
 
augiedoggy said:
The kegco 3 roller mill does have hardened steel roller as well as ball bearings instead of oil impregnated bushings and is identical to the MM3 except its metric and $139... quite possibly from the same chinese manufacturer that makes them for MM.
Click to expand...


To the best of my knowledge, MM is U.S. made, in Georgia.

A brew club member is "Monster Brewing Hardware", and with any concerns, e-mail Fred, he'll be happy to address any concerns.

He told me he has shipped a couple to where I live now, ( Ecuador), and they seem to love them here in the budding Artesenal "Micro Brew" movement here.


https://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/store/pc/home.asp
 
Stealthcruiser said:
To the best of my knowledge, MM is U.S. made, in Georgia.

A brew club member is "Monster Brewing Hardware", and with any concerns, e-mail Fred, he'll be happy to address any concerns.

He told me he has shipped a couple to where I live now, ( Ecuador), and they seem to love them here in the budding Artesenal "Micro Brew" movement here.


https://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/store/pc/home.asp
Click to expand...
The company is based out of the states but the products are rarely actually made by the people who sell such things... the "Barley crusher" was advertised as American made for a long time too and it wasnt.. later it was disclosed that only the rollers (which werent hardened and wore out) and final assembly were done in Michigan... And in that case the "cereal killer" (which is the same exact mill made by the same people as the kegco 2 roller) is vastly superior in design and performance than the BC... Just food for thought... I dont mind paying a little extra for something but $365=shipping for the mm3 with crank vs $141 for the kegco 3 roller which is identical and likely made in china as well? For me its a no brainer if others can make and sell the identical (or better mill since it has bearings) for less than half the cost then they are doing something wrong or overcharging.
 
augiedoggy said:
the company is based out of the states but the products are rarely actually made by the people who sell such things... the "Barley crusher" was advertised as American made for a long time too and it wasnt.. later it was disclosed that only the rollers (which werent hardened and wore out) and final assembly were done in Michigan... And in that case the "cereal killer" (which is the same exact mill made by the same people as the kegco 2 roller) is vastly superior in design and performance than the BC... Just food for thought... I dont mind paying a little extra for something but $365=shipping for the mm3 with crank vs $141 for the kegco 3 roller which is identical and likely made in china as well? For me its a no brainer if others can make and sell the identical (or better mill since it has bearings) for less than half the cost then they are doing something wrong or overcharging.
Click to expand...

No worries.

I e-mailed him, and gave him a link to the thread, should he wish to address it.

And bearings.......Preferable if you are going to "side load" the shafts, with pulleys and belts, ( re: for longevity of shaft mounts), but bushings be fine if a properly aligned direct drive setup is used, ( I M O ).
 
Like others here: My MM2Pro with the hardened rollers was set last year. Still perfect with 130 -ish gallons worth of high-gravity grinding done. Love it. Have given away my Barley Crusher.
 
Stealthcruiser said:
No worries.

I e-mailed him, and gave him a link to the thread, should he wish to address it.

And bearings.......Preferable if you are going to "side load" the shafts, with pulleys and belts, ( re: for longevity of shaft mounts), but bushings be fine if a properly aligned direct drive setup is used, ( I M O ).
Click to expand...

Good maybe he can answer some questions and clarify things.

Bearing have a longer life than bushings. bushings are normally used in situations where there isnt a lot of prolonged movement and to keep manufacturing costs down. Using bearing is considerably more expensive. Bronze is a soft metal and the bushings can become worn and sloppy as many already learned with the barley crusher and people having to constantly take the BC apart and oiling them to keep it working. I myself wouldnt expect a $300= mill to go the cheaper route when it comes to design and longevity would you? I know most hardware stores carry replacement bushings since they are basically a consumable item (I just replaced them in the door hinges on my stingray)...

As a field engineer for over 20 years, I work on some machinery that has some pretty heavy duty rollers and never seen bushings being used. Even in High pressure grand format laminators with 600lb rollers and hydraulics to press them together...
The cheaper economy versions of the wide format copiers and printers I used to work on used bushings in the roller shafts and fuser rollers though... I remember because I would have to replace them. The higher volume versions from the same manufacturer used real ball bearings... Thats enough proof for me.

Also whats the deal with only the pro versions of the MM having hardened rollers? My $99 CK has hardened rollers (and bearings) I guess thats why the roller knurling still looks sharp and new after 100s of pounds of grain now.
 
HLSheppard said:
Like others here: My MM2Pro with the hardened rollers was set last year. Still perfect with 130 -ish gallons worth of high-gravity grinding done. Love it. Have given away my Barley Crusher.
Click to expand...
Weren't you the guy that got all upset with me when I mentioned the barley crushers were known to have problems in another thread a year or 2 ago? I remember you and another Guy in the thread got pretty defensive against me and basically told me I was full of it?
All I was trying to do was let people know what the deal was since some companies spend so much on marketing it doesnt matter how poorly their products stack up against others.. Unfortunately you dont always get what you pay for.
 
augiedoggy said:
Good maybe he can answer some questions and clarify things.

Bearing have a longer life than bushings. bushings are normally used in situations where there isnt a lot of prolonged movement and to keep manufacturing costs down.

Agree, and bushings aren't "normally" spec'd in a side loaded application, although to get the speed reductions most need when using pulleys and belts to drive a mill, there is enough "wrap" on the pulleys with the belt, to forgo excessive side loading from unneeded belt over tightening.




Also whats the deal with only the pro versions of the MM having hardened rollers? My $99 CK has hardened rollers.
Click to expand...

Don't know.Are they fully hardened, ( heat treated), after knurling, or simply work hardened from the knurling process?
As mentioned, e-mail them and ask, if he don't pipe up.

Edit: Don't know what happened with the funky quote there!
 
Stealthcruiser said:
Don't know.Are they fully hardened, ( heat treated), after knurling, or simply work hardened from the knurling process?
As mentioned, e-mail them and ask, if he don't pipe up.

Edit: Don't know what happened with the funky quote there!
Click to expand...
they are advertised to be made with "hardened cold rolled steel"..

I know the BC doesn't use hardened rollers and that along with the bushing are the two reasons they fail so often.
 
OK Augie, read all 22 pages of the Kegco thread. And thanks for reminding me I actually posted there. Love a condition that has obliterated some cognitive stuff. Anyway, thanks for referring me over there. Pretty strongly positive testimony.

I asked day_trippr. I'm not sure I'm a 3-roller fan, ultimately. I believe Kegco makes a similarly-designed 2 roller, yes? How do you feel about that one? I am geeked about the 180 HP AAW so again, no issues here, whether the 2 or 3 roller. How does that work, without a key?
 
Gadjobrinus said:
OK Augie, read all 22 pages of the Kegco thread. And thanks for reminding me I actually posted there. Love a condition that has obliterated some cognitive stuff. Anyway, thanks for referring me over there. Pretty strongly positive testimony.

I asked day_trippr. I'm not sure I'm a 3-roller fan, ultimately. I believe Kegco makes a similarly-designed 2 roller, yes? How do you feel about that one? I am geeked about the 180 HP AAW so again, no issues here, whether the 2 or 3 roller. How does that work, without a key?
Click to expand...
Kegco is just a brand name.. They dont make (or design) anything with thier name on it... they are a marketing company that contracts others to manufacture what they sometimes spec.. (a lot like Camco and keg king) people recognize a brand name and are more likely to buy it vs buying it without a brand on it for less...

That said they do sell a 2 roll version of the same mill from the same large manufacturer that makes them for others like cereal killer and keg king and sells them direct on ebay and the like.. they all have hardened rollers from what ive read besides the stainless steel roller versions. They also all have bearings.. the early cereal killer mills used bushings but they were problematic like the BC so they switched to bearings. (according to the long Cereal killer thread I read wheni researched buying my CK from adventures in home brewing... you can always buy the CK branded one which comes with a wooden base made in the states.. otherwise its the same mill right down to the markings and locks.
 
Stealthcruiser said:
@ augiedoggy

You hip to the processes for hardening steel?
Click to expand...
No? do I need to be? I'll ask you a question, Besides being friends with one of the MM employees and being from the same area are you biased for some reason? Seems like your kind of giving me a hard time for pointing this stuff out and asking these questions here?

Monster states only thier pro series has it.. other mill makers do claim to have it on thier home brewing mill lines. That and the fact that its commonly known the BC did not have hardened rollers and the knurling wore off as a result just begged me to ask the question? Along with questioning the reason behind using bushings?

I havent really heard any complaints of the monster mills myself. they also are out of my budget so I havent paid them much attention... But it still doesnt mean people shouldnt ask what makes a mill thats lacking bearing and hardened rollers so special or superior? Maybe they do have hardened roller but dont advertise it so they can charge more for the pro version? IDK but wouldnt be the first time Ive seen stuff like that on the equipment I am "hip" to..

you do have me reading on it now though and cold rolled is hardened from what im seeing..
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/cold-vs-hot-rolled-steel-properties-254924-print/
 
Augie, these are both the Kegco's?

And I've seen that motor attached to at least one Kegco in the Kegco thread. Less, I don't know...substantial than the 180 AAW?
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Augie, these are both the Kegco's?

And I've seen that motor attached to at least one Kegco in the Kegco thread. Less, I don't know...substantial than the 180 AAW?
Click to expand...

They are the same mills as kegco sells yes..
look at this way... I just bought all three stout 3bbl brewing kettles with the accessories ... only I didnt go through stout... or brewmation who also sells them. I bought from the manufacturer who I found on alibaba and who sponsers the probrewer forum... and even with customs and delivery I saved over 30% over stouts prices ( over 3 grand)... its all about middlemen these days.. Everyones selling the same things at a markup with their own name on it.
Some companies pay a premium to have thier stuff made, not to have it made to better specs unfortunately but to have exclusive manufacturing rights so the same products arent sold to other companies to brand or sell direct... others have contracts that eventually expire allowing the manufacturers to sell to others.

as far as motors I use an old blueprint machine gear reduction motor and it works perfect... very strong and variable speed.. made a cheap ac to dc power converter with a $7 light dimmer and $3 bridge rectifier to power the 110v dc motor.
 
augiedoggy said:
No? do I need to be?




you do have me reading on it now though and cold rolled is hardened from what im seeing..
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/cold-vs-hot-rolled-steel-properties-254924-print/
Click to expand...

"Normally", cold rolled doesn't have the carbon content needed for proper "hardening", best I recall,( my background is Aluminum, and the heat treating thereof).

In it's "as produced" state, it ain't hardened, and this type of steel isn't one you would select for a proper hardening, other than maybe a case hardening.

Cold Rolled is usually selected for it's "malleability".

Not sure on what Practical machinist says about it, ( good reference, by the way), but here's the Wiki take on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel


Edit: And I'm all about inquiring about products, features, claims, if you are looking to justify it's viability for said claims!
 
Stealthcruiser said:
"Normally", cold rolled doesn't have the carbon content needed for proper "hardening", best I recall,( my background is Aluminum, and the heat treating thereof).

In it's "as produced" state, it ain't hardened, and this type of steel isn't one you would select for a proper hardening, other than maybe a case hardening.

Cold Rolled is usually selected for it's "malleability".

Not sure on what Practical machinist says about it, ( good reference, by the way), but here's the Wiki take on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel


Edit: And I'm all about inquiring about products, features, claims, if you are looking to justify it's viability for said claims!
Click to expand...
Found it!

Its the crappy barley crusher rollers that are "1018 Cold rolled steel"... I guess it makes sense since they dont hold up.
http://www.barleycrusher.com/barleycrusher.php
 
this concerns me though since I just bought the kegco version of the same mill..
https://www.ebay.com/p/Keg-King-Mal...d=322832049721&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 notice the same cold rolled description. My hope here is since most of these distributors are just copying and pasting their competitors specs (Kegco still says it uses bronze bushings!) is that this info is just wrong..

It has hardened steel bearings at least.:(
 
augiedoggy said:
this concerns me though since I just bought the kegco version of the same mill..
https://www.ebay.com/p/Keg-King-Mal...d=322832049721&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 notice the same cold rolled description.
Click to expand...


"What" concerns you, the cold rolled aspect?

Are ya' running a brewery?
It's got the ball bearings you like.


Just curious as to how much grain you're gonna' mill, and how long you think the rollers will last you.

It might be all you need, regardless of what you read on "cold rolled" wearing out, without knowing how much grain was ran through said rollers.

Roll with it, or "buy once, cry once", and get, ( yes verify), all the features you think you need.

You mentioned budget.........If what you bought , is what it will stand, then you're golden......:D
 
Stealthcruiser said:
"What" concerns you, the cold rolled aspect?

Are ya' running a brewery?
It's got the ball bearings you like.


Just curious as to how much grain you're gonna' mill, and how long you think the rollers will last you.

It might be all you need, regardless of what you read on "cold rolled" wearing out, without knowing how much grain was ran through said rollers.

Roll with it, or "buy once, cry once", and get, ( yes verify), all the features you think you need.

You mentioned budget.........If what you bought , is what it will stand, then you're golden......:D
Click to expand...

yes I am running a 3 bbl taproom/ brewery with it actually...

I know the barley crushers advertised the same cold rolled steel and many owners had to send their mills in multiple times to have both the rollers and bronze bushings replaced and that was common for home brew users. so much so that BC stopped accepting returns and in some cases people waited months or never even got them back. Theres countless threads on this here.. thats one of the reasons I questioned MMs choice to use bushings and not use hardened rollers...

If it ends up not holding up I'll just get another cereal killer .. at least I know that will hold up fine... mines never even been cleaned and the rollers look and spin like new. in any case I already now I would be no better off with a MM3 since it also doesnt have the hardened rollers or even bearings..
 

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