Mirror Pond by Deschutes

[muenchk]

I'm about to try my hand at this delicious APA. I see a bunch of recipes here, but no one is screaming success. What gives? Has anybody got the Mirror Pond clone right?

 

[Johnny9]

I had my first Mirror Pond on tap this afternoon and agree, that is one great beer. I think the key maybe the english style yeast, but this thread seems more focused on the hop and malt quantities.

what yeast strains have you guys been trying?

 

[Ender]

have you guys listened to the Brewing Network's "Can you Brew It" They did a run of Deschutes beer. They didnt clone Mirror pond, but came close and with suggested tweaks, I bet it would be damn good. Their Green Flash was dy-no-mite!

 

[jcole]

I haven't quite replicated Mirror Pond yet, but I've come up with a really nice English Pale Ale recipe which is in the ball park. It uses the White Labs Dry English Ale yeast strain.

 

[br1dge]

Originally from Portland and now in Atlanta. Mirror Pond is one of my all time favorites. I will be giving this one a go this Friday. I will let you all know how it turns out.

12G AG Mirror Pond Clone 90 Min Boil Mash @ 152

20 lb Crisp Pale Malt
2 lb Crystal 20L
1 lb Carapils
2.75 Cascade @ 60
2.75 Cascade @ 15
Irish Moss @ 15
2.5 Dry Hop

Based on this I am looking for 1.054 OG. Going to use 1968 as I have some washed and ready to go from a previous batch. Starter will go on the stir plate this afternoon. Based on my calculations I will be looking to pitch approx 460 Billion Yeasties. Ferment at 63. I will keep you posted.

 

[jcarson83]

Looks like you know what your doing. Hope to hear that it turns out. Maybe this will be my come back brew.

 

[jcarson83]

Btw I like the 63 ferment. Perfect. What's the ferment schedule?

 

[Yooper]

I haven't tasted this yet, but here's my attempt:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.87 %
13.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 7.45 %
3.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 1.68 %
0.75 oz Cascade [8.60 %] (60 min) Hops 19.6 IBU
1.25 oz Cascade [8.60 %] (15 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (5 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [8.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade (homegrown) [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

I mashed at 152, and used s05 for the yeast. It's going to be dryhopped tomorrow morning, and I'll taste it then.

 

[jcarson83]

What's your ferment schedule Yooper?

 

[Yooper]

What's your ferment schedule Yooper?

My ferment schedule? I don't really schedule anything, but I brewed on April 9, I pitched at 62 degrees, and it's been at 64 degrees since. It's been finished for quite a while, I think. It was fermenting pretty steady for the first four days or so. I'll check the SG tomorrow and dryhop it and then keg it on Monday.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

Mirror Pond is my White Whale. I've brewed it close to a dozen times, extract, partial-mash, and all-grain, so I'll share my experiences.

I started with complex recipes involving a half-dozen hops and, honestly, it came pretty close, but it never had that "Mir Pon" feel, so I'm back to basics. (FYI I only have access to Belgian malts)

Brewferm Pale 7 EBC (3 kg)
Cara-amber 60 EBC (0.5 kg)

The rest is whole-cone Cascade hops in various amounts and times.

Last time it felt a bit weak all around, so I upped everything, shooting for ~5.5% abv... Overshot and wound up with 6% and the beer is a bit stronger (with respect to malts and hops) than I would like. It's still really tasty!

That batch is sitting in the keg right now:

Belgian Pale 7 EBC (4 kg)
Cara-amber 60 EBC (1 kg)
35 g Cascade 6.8% @ 60
30 g Cascade 6.8% @ 15
Irish moss at 15 min
Re-pitched Wyest 1056 (this is it's third go-around with Mirror Pond)
14 days fermentation at 18 °C.
50 g Cascade 6.8% 14-day dryhop at 18 °C.

I've found the late hop additions to be critical. Usually I split the last addition between 15 min and 5 min, and I think that is a good idea because this batch has a nice nose, but that fresh Cascade hop taste is not as present as it should be. Next time I'm going to try the Dogfish head continuous hopping method and see where that takes me.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

Going to give it another go next weekend, here is the new (5.5 gal) recipe:

3.5 kg British Lager
1 kg Cara Amber (60 EBC)
0.5 kg Cara-Pils

Mash @150 F, batch sparge @ 168 F

90 min boil.
30 g Cascade (6.8%) 60 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 30 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 15 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 5 min

Re-pitched 1098 British Ale yeast from 2 L starter, ferment at 20 C for one week.

30 g Cascade (6.8%) dry hop for at least two weeks.

Target: 1.054-1.014 (5.26% abv) 40 IBU 19.3 EBC

 

[br1dge]

Btw I like the 63 ferment. Perfect. What's the ferment schedule?

Sorry for the delay. Been a hectic couple days. Brew went great. Finished slightly higher OG at 1.057. I think Im getting closer to 78 or 79% efficiency than the 75% I plugged in. The 1968 was pitched after 24 hrs on the stir plate and took off within 5-6 hours at 63. My pipeline is fairly full right now :rockin: so Im planning to let it sit for 2.5 to 3 weeks before transferring to kegs. Probably dry hop 7 days before I transfer.

 

[br1dge]

My ferment schedule? I don't really schedule anything, but I brewed on April 9, I pitched at 62 degrees, and it's been at 64 degrees since. It's been finished for quite a while, I think. It was fermenting pretty steady for the first four days or so. I'll check the SG tomorrow and dryhop it and then keg it on Monday.

Did you give it the old taste test yet Yooper?? Mine finished after about 4 days but its still sitting in my ferm chamber and probably will be for another 2 weeks. (Im having a CO2 issue I need to fix before I transfer to kegs.)

Let me know how yours turned out and what you FG was.

 

[RIT_Warrior]

It lists it at 40 IBU's on the Deschutes web site

Watch out when you see IBU numbers. There are 3 different ways IBUs can be calculated, Rager, Tinseth and Garetz. Which one is used really isn't important, but you have to be consistent if you want the right results. I'd bet that they are using Rager, but it is possible they are using Tinseth. If you shot them an email they would probably tell you which formula they are using.

Beersmith defaults to Tinseth, and I think Promash defaults to Rager for the IBU calculations.

 

[Yooper]

Did you give it the old taste test yet Yooper?? Mine finished after about 4 days but its still sitting in my ferm chamber and probably will be for another 2 weeks. (Im having a CO2 issue I need to fix before I transfer to kegs.)

Let me know how yours turned out and what you FG was.

The FG was 1.007! I guess my mash temp was too low.

I dryhopped it, and I'll keg it this weekend and sample it then.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I had a lot of Cascade lying around (10 ounces at least), so I tried it this weekend.

My recipe (I'm sure I found somewhere on here) was:

9.5# Maris Otter
1# Crystal 40°L
.25# Carapils

I used S04.

 

[Undrtkr_00]

Anyone get a great clone result? I am dying for a good clone of this beer.

 

[Nugent]

I have been playing with the CYBI clone recipe. The basics of the grist bill are spot on, but I found that what they used, plus their hopping schedule, made it a bit too hoppy to be a clone of the beautifully-balanced MP. I have been adding about 4 oz. of aromatic or melanoiden malt to the grist bill. I feel that it adds that slight bit more maltiness to balance things out. The brewer said that much of the malt flavour comes from the use of the base malt that they use; can't remember it's name, but passed by the malt silos in Vancouver, WA on the train.

In terms of hops, in the last batch that I made, I mixed Centennial and Cascade at a one-third/two-third mix respectively. It has added an additional PNW hoppiness that I like. I find that straight Cascade can be a bit 'dull' and too much has a flavour that I don't like - kinda rubbery(?). Anyway, these are just my fussy tastes. Yeast-wise, a lower attenuator like 1968 or the Wyeast NW Ale yeast is really important for that fruitness.

White whale indeed. I was at the Deschuted brewpub in Portland a month ago drinking MP that had been brewed on site and it's fresher tasting and slightly more bitter.

Just gonna keep trying as the 'test' batches are very good indeed.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

Anyone get a great clone result? I am dying for a good clone of this beer.

I've tried close to a dozen variations now, and haven not hit the mark yet, but here is are my experiences:

I second the notion that the grain bill is pretty much spot on. I get great results with the following in a 5.5 gal batch:

3.5 kg Marris Otter
1 kg Cara Amber (60 EBC) (AKA Crystal 40°L)
0.5 kg Cara-Pils

In my experience the Maris Otter is key. I've now brewed this with five different base malts, and Maris Otter gives the best results by far. I mash at 150-152 °F.

For yeast, I have the best luck with 1098 British Ale. When I was in Oregon over the summer, I confirmed that this is basically Deschutes' house strain, which they use in MirPon.

Last time I used the following hop schedule:

90 min boil.
30 g Cascade (6.8%) 60 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 30 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 15 min
15 g Cascade (6.8%) 5 min

30 g Cascade (6.8%) dry hop for two weeks.

The end results is a fantastic IPA, but lacks the subtlety of the Real Thing and is far too hoppy.

In past attempts, I could never get the fresh Cascade hop aroma/taste to come through, and in this batch it was there, but accompanied by too much bitterness. And I think I over did it on the dry-hop... The crystal-clear beer out of the primary wound up hazy and a shade darker in the bottle. I'm really not sure how to address these issues; perhaps eliminating the 30 min addition and halving the dry-hop?

I have to qualify this post a bit. I am trying to brew the MirPon that I remember from ten years ago, which was clean, crisp, balanced, but with a distinct Cascade nose and lingering taste of fresh hops. I find that, in recent years, MirPon has become a bit watered down and a little tamer and it is no longer my favorite beer (still Top Ten though).

However, while I was in Oregon over the summer I was exposed to Deschutes' Red Chair NWPA, which in my mind more closely resembles MirPon from the good 'ol days, but maybe my tastes have just dulled with age I will direct my future cloning efforts at Red Chair.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

I have been playing with the CYBI clone recipe. The basics of the grist bill are spot on, but I found that what they used, plus their hopping schedule, made it a bit too hoppy to be a clone of the beautifully-balanced MP. I have been adding about 4 oz. of aromatic or melanoiden malt to the grist bill. I feel that it adds that slight bit more maltiness to balance things out. The brewer said that much of the malt flavour comes from the use of the base malt that they use; can't remember it's name, but passed by the malt silos in Vancouver, WA on the train.

In terms of hops, in the last batch that I made, I mixed Centennial and Cascade at a one-third/two-third mix respectively. It has added an additional PNW hoppiness that I like. I find that straight Cascade can be a bit 'dull' and too much has a flavour that I don't like - kinda rubbery(?). Anyway, these are just my fussy tastes. Yeast-wise, a lower attenuator like 1968 or the Wyeast NW Ale yeast is really important for that fruitness.

White whale indeed. I was at the Deschuted brewpub in Portland a month ago drinking MP that had been brewed on site and it's fresher tasting and slightly more bitter.

Just gonna keep trying as the 'test' batches are very good indeed.

Hah--we may have been in that pub at the same time; did they mention anything about some other guy asking a lot of questions for the brew master

That fresher taste is what I remember from the MirPon I drank in college in Oregon. The bottled stuff seems to suffer a bit from the increased production volume. I wonder if what you call "slightly more bitter" is what I call "fresh Cascade hop taste?" Because that is really the fairy dust that makes all of my cloning attempts more homage than mimicry.

 

[puckjer]

guys, i met one of the brewers from Deschutes when he came down to our homebrew competition in dallas back in March. he and i hit it off pretty good and have stayed in touch ever since. i asked him about a mirror pond recipe and these are the details he sent me. he knew i was doing partial mash and tried to scale it as best he could.
7 lbs of pale malt extract
0.6 lbs of C75
0.5 lbs of Dextrin
all hops are cascade
schedule as follows...
75 min 0.5 oz
30 min 0.75 oz
5 min 1.5 oz
dry hopped for 2 weeks with 3 oz of cascade
Wyeast 1187 is what they use and that is their house strain.

i brewed this about a month ago and it came out pretty close. my fermentation temp got a little too high which caused some off flavors so i am going to brew it again. these notes are straight from the brewer at Deschutes so it should be good to go.

 

[ChiechiBrouw]

guys, i met one of the brewers from Deschutes when he came down to our homebrew competition in dallas back in March. he and i hit it off pretty good and have stayed in touch ever since. i asked him about a mirror pond recipe and these are the details he sent me. he knew i was doing partial mash and tried to scale it as best he could.
7 lbs of pale malt extract
0.6 lbs of C75
0.5 lbs of Dextrin
all hops are cascade
schedule as follows...
75 min 0.5 oz
30 min 0.75 oz
5 min 1.5 oz
dry hopped for 2 weeks with 3 oz of cascade
Wyeast 1187 is what they use and that is their house strain.

i brewed this about a month ago and it came out pretty close. my fermentation temp got a little too high which caused some off flavors so i am going to brew it again. these notes are straight from the brewer at Deschutes so it should be good to go.

Ringwood? Who would have guessed... I guess the brewpub in Portland is ill-informed

And now I know what I'm going to be brewing next!

 

[Undrtkr_00]

All right! I'll give this a shot. Thanks!

 

[samc]

This version https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ca...chutes-mirror-pond-paleae-178959/#post2072120 is pretty close as long as you don't sub the base malt away from GW Pale.

 

[Undrtkr_00]

guys, i met one of the brewers from Deschutes when he came down to our homebrew competition in dallas back in March. he and i hit it off pretty good and have stayed in touch ever since. i asked him about a mirror pond recipe and these are the details he sent me. he knew i was doing partial mash and tried to scale it as best he could.
7 lbs of pale malt extract
0.6 lbs of C75
0.5 lbs of Dextrin
all hops are cascade
schedule as follows...
75 min 0.5 oz
30 min 0.75 oz
5 min 1.5 oz
dry hopped for 2 weeks with 3 oz of cascade
Wyeast 1187 is what they use and that is their house strain.

i brewed this about a month ago and it came out pretty close. my fermentation temp got a little too high which caused some off flavors so i am going to brew it again. these notes are straight from the brewer at Deschutes so it should be good to go.

Quick question... was that 7 lbs of DME or LME? I assume DME but wanted to be sure.

 

[puckjer]

i used LME.

 

[postalbunny]

Bringing this threads back to the top... anyone confirm wyeast 1098 or 1968 as the best strain to use? I've seen in this thread wlp001, wlp002, and both yeast strains. Wondering which would be best fit.

 

[puckjer]

Wyeast 1187 is Deschutes House Strain. i received that info direct from one of the brewers at Deschutes. i used it when i made the clone and it came out great

 

[Nugent]

Wyeast 1187 is Deschutes House Strain. i received that info direct from one of the brewers at Deschutes. i used it when i made the clone and it came out great

I agree with this. 1968 is too sweet IMO; 1187 is drier, but still estery like MP.