British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

[Broothru]

Great information, guys. I'm gonna' go with the 77L Crisp Medium crystal and the Lyle's Golden syrup and not sweat the small stuff as you suggest. As long as I like it, to hell with what the judges say! I guess sometimes I just get a little anal about small details instead of focusing on the macro. In any event, it looks like a really nice recipe, and should make a really enjoyable British beer, whatever the sub-category. I miss going to London and having a pub crawl.

 

[Miraculix]

Great information, guys. I'm gonna' go with the 77L Crisp Medium crystal and the Lyle's Golden syrup and not sweat the small stuff as you suggest. As long as I like it, to hell with what the judges say! I guess sometimes I just get a little anal about small details instead of focusing on the macro. In any event, it looks like a really nice recipe, and should make a really enjoyable British beer, whatever the sub-category. I miss going to London and having a pub crawl.

If you really want, you could add a dash of midnight wheat and enter it as a bitter. This is what I did with my current batch, which will be bottled tomorrow. I have not tried it yet, so I am not sure if there is some detectable impact on the taste through the little amount of dark malt.

Btw. I am having a Pilsner Urquell right now, I do not remember when I had one the alst time, must have been before my UK time, meaning at least 7 years ago. This beer is more bitter than I remember AND IT COMES IN GREEN BOTTLES!!!!! I think I detect skunkyness....... otherwise almost like an Augustiner Helles with more IBUs. There is this honey-ish malt thing going on. I like that.

 

[Broothru]

If you really want, you could add a dash of midnight wheat and enter it as a bitter. This is what I did with my current batch, which will be bottled tomorrow. I have not tried it yet, so I am not sure if there is some detectable impact on the taste through the little amount of dark malt.

Btw. I am having a Pilsner Urquell right now, I do not remember when I had one the alst time, must have been before my UK time, meaning at least 7 years ago. This beer is more bitter than I remember AND IT COMES IN GREEN BOTTLES!!!!! I think I detect skunkyness....... otherwise almost like an Augustiner Helles with more IBUs. There is this honey-ish malt thing going on. I like that.

As luck would have it, I was just playing around with your Easy AK Light Bitter recipe in BeerSmith and tried adding 2 oz of Blackprinze 500L to the grist. Two ounces was too much, but 1 oz. did the trick and added just enough 'dark' without making it a Dunkle, at least in the software. I really like using very small amounts of Blackprinze for color since it seems to add zero astringency or roasted notes.

Jennifer Talley writes about it in her book that I'm reading now, and squares perfectly with what my experience has been. Her method is to mash in the grains, minus the Blackprinze (or Chocolate, or any preferred dehusked roast malt) and then sprinkle the dark malt on top of the settled grain bed. Since my all-in-one system is a bottom up flow, I think I'd have to have mine at the bottom of the grain bed instead, though I have gotten good color extraction by crushing and mashing all the grains together.

Your mention of Augustiner Helles has me in withdrawal. I have two cans sitting in my beer fridge left over from the holidays, along with some Ayinger and Paulaner. This Dry January ("Dranuary" as my son calls it) is difficult enough as it is. And talking about green bottles and beer didn't help any! Last week we had an extended family gathering, and my son's father-in-law brought two Sixers of NA beer, a Heineken NA and a St. Pauli Girl NA. My taste buds will testify that, indeed, you can skunk NA beer if you put it in a green glass bottle!

Flying Dog Brewery came out with an NA beer called "Deep Fake IPA" that I picked up a six pack of but have yet to give it a try after last week's Heineken/St. Pauli debacle. I'm afraid if I go down to the beer fridge to retrieve one, that I might be tempted to grab one of the 15-pack of Founder's IPAs instead. Or even worse, be compelled to sample one of the German exports. Once the dam breaks, the flood will soon follow.

 

[Miraculix]

As luck would have it, I was just playing around with your Easy AK Light Bitter recipe in BeerSmith and tried adding 2 oz of Blackprinze 500L to the grist. Two ounces was too much, but 1 oz. did the trick and added just enough 'dark' without making it a Dunkle, at least in the software. I really like using very small amounts of Blackprinze for color since it seems to add zero astringency or roasted notes.

Jennifer Talley writes about it in her book that I'm reading now, and squares perfectly with what my experience has been. Her method is to mash in the grains, minus the Blackprinze (or Chocolate, or any preferred dehusked roast malt) and then sprinkle the dark malt on top of the settled grain bed. Since my all-in-one system is a bottom up flow, I think I'd have to have mine at the bottom of the grain bed instead, though I have gotten good color extraction by crushing and mashing all the grains together.

Your mention of Augustiner Helles has me in withdrawal. I have two cans sitting in my beer fridge left over from the holidays, along with some Ayinger and Paulaner. This Dry January ("Dranuary" as my son calls it) is difficult enough as it is. And talking about green bottles and beer didn't help any! Last week we had an extended family gathering, and my son's father-in-law brought two Sixers of NA beer, a Heineken NA and a St. Pauli Girl NA. My taste buds will testify that, indeed, you can skunk NA beer if you put it in a green glass bottle!

Flying Dog Brewery came out with an NA beer called "Deep Fake IPA" that I picked up a six pack of but have yet to give it a try after last week's Heineken/St. Pauli debacle. I'm afraid if I go down to the beer fridge to retrieve one, that I might be tempted to grab one of the 15-pack of Founder's IPAs instead. Or even worse, be compelled to sample one of the German exports. Once the dam breaks, the flood will soon follow.

Tough live for you man!

Stay strong! Not even ten days left.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From memory, which I must be honest and it isn't what it once was, Golden Ale as a style is probably a recent event, likely originating in America and quickly adopted in UK by breweries, for beers with individual merits, for marketing purposes, even when slight colour change was necessary.

My early memories of Golden Ale was of this.

Golden colour it had, bottled in "nips", about a third of a pint, and strong, maybe 8%, it was generally bought to add to liven a draught pint when the beer was getting old and tired.

Well that's less a golden ale as currently conceived and more like one of the pale barleywines that were introduced to compete with Tennant's introduction of Gold Label in 1951. But given that making beer with pale malt will have happened earlier than complicating things with crystal (which only really came in 100 years ago, and only became common after WWII), "golden ale" is the default.

And marketing beers made with pale malt as "golden" dates back a long way, before there were trademarks as such. This article from Boak and Bailey notes a ‘Golden Sunlight Pale Ale’ being advertised in 1851, and the idea of golden ales certainly seems to have become popular by the time of Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887. Edd's old blog had a recipe for Bentley's Golden Bitter Ale from 1893, which with pale malt and a dash of sugar is very similar to the recipe for Boddies since at least the turn of the 20th century.

So far from being a recent event originating in the US, golden ales are an old thing that lingered along the M62-as-now-is whilst being supplanted in the south by newfangled bitters using crystal. Then the southerners rediscovered them, and since history is written by southerners, the history books decreed that golden ale was invented with Exmoor Gold and Summer Lightning.

 

[cire]

So far from being a recent event originating in the US, golden ales are an old thing that lingered along the M62-as-now-is whilst being supplanted in the south by newfangled bitters using crystal. Then the southerners rediscovered them, and since history is written by southerners, the history books decreed that golden ale was invented with Exmoor Gold and Summer Lightning.

Ah well, my recollection is that of one who lived, and still lives, in the North East of England. Our beers were Ordinary, Scotch and Best, not Milds not Bitters. Colour was often an addition to enhance weaker beers with the Best beers being Pale.

 

[Miraculix]

Gentleman and very gentle women,

I was so sure that I had enough Pale ale or MO in my storage that I did not check up until... brewday. And of course, I had almost zero MO left. So here it is, the new Miraculix Best -Kitchen Sink Edition!

Pilsener with a dash of MO as the base, followed by Perle Hops and Hallertau Mittelfrüh. This is a true English/German friendship celebration

I added a bit of Dark wheat (to me it is similar to midnight wheat, quite neutral but dark), to lower the colour. I also simplified the mash schedule a bit, only three steps, first at 56C for proteins to be chopped into pieces (I always get chill haze these days, trying to get rid of it), 2nd at 65C for the sugars and 3rd at 77C for mashout and glyco-protein production (foam enhancing).

It is already happily bubbling in the kitchen. A09 is a quick starter, if it is reasonably fresh. The batch is about 20l big and had about 85% efficiency. BIAB ftw!

The invert No 2 is actually homemade invert, but There is no way of hacking that into brewers friend. Also, the Gladfield flaked spelt is actually just plain wholegrain Spelt flour.

As you can see there are 2 Crystal malts involved, this is becasue I wanted to clear my storage a bit, did not have enough of the Premium English, so I added some of the Heritage Crystal. They are actually quite different so I think this makes even sense flavour-wise, they should complement each other quite well. Premium is more of a traditional criystal mal, with sweetness and caramel and heritage is a bit astringent if overused, darker, more intense and almost zero sweetness.

I was also quite brave and got into English water territory with this regarding water chemistry. 7g gypsum and 6g Calciumchloride. Plus Vitamin C, but I will make a whole thread for this one, once I finished this batch. Looks like a total game changer to me, but I have to at least verify with this second batch using it.

Original Gravity: 1.047

Final Gravity: 1.014

ABV (standard): 4.4%

IBU (tinseth): 28.8

SRM (morey): 12.6

Yeast: Imperial Yeast - A09 Pub

3,835 g
Amount	Fermentable	PPG	°L	Bill %
2,500 g	Bestmalz - BEST Organic Pilsen Malt	37	2	65.2%
325 g	United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale	38	3.75	8.5%
300 g	Gladfield - Flaked Spelt	32.2	1.7	7.8%
230 g	Simpsons - Premium English Caramalt	32.6	23.04	6%
250 g	GB - Invert Sugar #2	36	25	6.5%
60 g	The Swaen - Blackswaen Black Wheat	36	400	1.6%
170 g	Simpsons - Heritage Crystal	32	66	4.4%

Hops:

Amount	Variety	Type	AA	Use	Time	IBU	Bill %
25 g	Perle	Pellet	8.9	Boil	45 min	23.01	38.5%
40 g	Hallertau Mittelfrüh	Leaf/Whole	3.9	Boil	10 min	5.79	61.5%

Mash Guidelines:

Temp	Time
56 °C	15 min
65 °C	45 min
77 °C	15 min

Some updates on this one. I bottled it and what I got there tastes like a Fuller's London Pride clone. The bottled version unfortunately

I upped the OG and I upped the crystal amount to 10%, compared to the original MB version. Well, that got me into Fuller's territory. A bit too sweet for my liking, not quite there with the hops, a bit more would have been good. Now I remember why my initial version had less crystal and a lower OG on purpose.

Ok, lesson learned. It is probably not a bad beer what I bottled there, let's give it some time to shine.

BUT on another note, ZERO signs of hot side oxidation whatsoever, ZERO almond flavour. So the vitamin c thing really seems to work as antissipated. I added a little bit more this time, just to see what happens, but I would not increase the dosage further. I now have 3.5g of ascorbic acid (vitamin c) on 20 litres in the fermenter. I added it together with the water salts before doughing in.

 

[Miraculix]

Just to let you guys know, here is the vitamin c thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/vitamin-c-the-game-changer.698328/#post-9227586

 

[Broothru]

Some updates on this one. I bottled it and what I got there tastes like a Fuller's London Pride clone. The bottled version unfortunately

I upped the OG and I upped the crystal amount to 10%, compared to the original MB version. Well, that got me into Fuller's territory. A bit too sweet for my liking, not quite there with the hops, a bit more would have been good. Now I remember why my initial version had less crystal and a lower OG on purpose.

Ok, lesson learned. It is probably not a bad beer what I bottled there, let's give it some time to shine.

BUT on another note, ZERO signs of hot side oxidation whatsoever, ZERO almond flavour. So the vitamin c thing really seems to work as antissipated. I added a little bit more this time, just to see what happens, but I would not increase the dosage further. I now have 3.5g of ascorbic acid (vitamin c) on 20 litres in the fermenter. I added it together with the water salts before doughing in.

Interesting read re: vitamin C/ascorbic. Are you using it in conjunction with any sulphites or gallotannins? I've been working with 'Trifecta' in both the mash and late boil, trying to get the amounts dialed in to increasingly smaller additions. It has been very effective at keeping oxidation in check but it may be affecting flavor as a result.

Speaking of flavor, your comment about the latest iteration of your bitters tasting like London Pride draught made me want to travel back to London to lift a pint or two. Fuller's was one of my "go to" favorites. I also enjoyed the brewery tour (off the A4 on the way to downtown from Heathrow). Good times, for sure.

 

[Miraculix]

Interesting read re: vitamin C/ascorbic. Are you using it in conjunction with any sulphites or gallotannins? I've been working with 'Trifecta' in both the mash and late boil, trying to get the amounts dialed in to increasingly smaller additions. It has been very effective at keeping oxidation in check but it may be affecting flavor as a result.

Speaking of flavor, your comment about the latest iteration of your bitters tasting like London Pride draught made me want to travel back to London to lift a pint or two. Fuller's was one of my "go to" favorites. I also enjoyed the brewery tour (off the A4 on the way to downtown from Heathrow). Good times, for sure.

I'm afraid that I didn't go to any brewery although I lived close to London for almost five years!

No I don't use any other agents, no SMB, no brewtan. I think that they are not necessary and may have detrimental impacts that we cannot really foresee. I like to keep things as simple as possible and I don't see any reason to add other substances if one already seems to do the job.

 

[Broothru]

I'm afraid that I didn't go to any brewery although I lived close to London for almost five years!

No I don't use any other agents, no SMB, no brewtan. I think that they are not necessary and may have detrimental impacts that we cannot really foresee. I like it to keep things as simple as possible and I don't see any reason to add other substances if one already seems to do the job.

I agree with minimizing things that go into the brew mix. However, Brewtan appears to settle out into the trub. The clarity of wort coming out of the mash, is near brilliant. Of course the boil adds hot and cold break later, but the late boil Trifecta makes most of that trub drop like a rock during a :20 minute whirlpool.

 

[Miraculix]

I agree with minimizing things that go into the brew mix. However, Brewtan appears to settle out into the trub. The clarity of wort coming out of the mash, is near brilliant. Of course the boil adds hot and cold break later, but the late boil Trifecta makes most of that trub drop like a rock during a :20 minute whirlpool.

Yes, if you whirlpool that might be correct, but I biab and dump everything into the fermenter. Hops are in a sock and removed.

Also, the brewtan just gets proteins out of the wort. If there's no oxygen to oxidise them, the proteins shouldn't cause much problems when they stay in the wort or drop out with the yeast in the fermenter. So not really of interest for me.

 

[cmac62]

I remember reading somewhere on here (looked but could not find) that AA by itself has a risk of being an oxidizer instead of a scrubber and that is why the K/SMB is used to off set this possibility. I may be remembering wrong, but less than a gram of KMB with the same amount of AA in the mash and late boil has been working for me. Then when I transfer to the keg I use a small amount of AA for fast acting O scrubbing.

 

[Miraculix]

I remember reading somewhere on here (looked but could not find) that AA by itself has a risk of being an oxidizer instead of a scrubber and that is why the K/SMB is used to off set this possibility. I may be remembering wrong, but less than a gram of KMB with the same amount of AA in the mash and late boil has been working for me. Then when I transfer to the keg I use a small amount of AA for fast acting O scrubbing.

We are getting on to the subject in the AA thread. At the moment it looks like everybody heard something like this somewehere but that no proof can be found that this is actually true.

 

[cmac62]

We are getting on to the subject in the AA thread. At the moment it looks like everybody heard something like this somewehere but that no proof can be found that this is actually true.

Also, that the AA is a quick acting scrubber and the meta is a slow acting scrubber, not sure if I mixed this up or not. Is there an AA thread?

 

[Gus_13]

I'm putting this on my list to brew. Sounds fantastic.

 

[doogie]

Also, that the AA is a quick acting scrubber and the meta is a slow acting scrubber, not sure if I mixed this up or not. Is there an AA thread?

It's called 'Vitamin C - A game changer?' sorry not sure how to link it

 

[Gus_13]

It's called 'Vitamin C - A game changer?' sorry not sure how to link it

I got you

Vitamin C - A game changer?

 

[InspectorJon]

I thought this might be a good place to ask this. I plan to brew this beer next. I found the Pub yeast at a LHBS. They had Whitbread Goldings hops. No other goldings varieties so I got that. Research indicates it’s not really a goldings variety but definitely English. Anyone have experience with this hop variety? AA is 8.8. per the label. I’m wondering if I should try and get some EKG and use for late additions. One chart I saw showed the flavor profiles being similar with EKG having more citrus.

 

[Miraculix]

I thought this might be a good place to ask this. I plan to brew this beer next. I found the Pub yeast at a LHBS. They had Whitbread Goldings hops. No other goldings varieties so I got that. Research indicates it’s not really a goldings variety but definitely English. Anyone have experience with this hop variety? AA is 8.8. per the label. I’m wondering if I should try and get some EKG and use for late additions. One chart I saw showed the flavor profiles being similar with EKG having more citrus.

I never heard of that hop. The alpha amount seems to be high for "normal" Goldings, they are usually between 4% and 5% alpha acid. At least the ones I had, somebody else might chime in and correct me, if I'm wrong.

There are actually not other real Goldings, the ones I mention in the recipe are actually normal Goldings, but from a specific farm. Stirian Goldings, or how they are called are a completely different variety and Est Kent Goldings are normal Goldings, grown in East Kent, a specific location in, if I remember correctly, the south east of England.

So at the end, it is either real Dolgins, or something else. If it is mainly a noble hop character you are getting from it, you are good to go. It obviously won't be the same as with Goldings, but all the good noble hops fit well into the picture. I have brewed this with Saaz, Mittelfrüh, Perle...... All work well. My favourite was Goldings, but not by much and could be also confirmation bias because British ale - British hop.

I am thinking of brewing this beer once with cluster, to see where this would lead us. Or add a small amount of williamette to the late addition. Just to get a hint of that American hop flavour.

 

[Miraculix]

Quick google search showed this:

" Whitbread Golding wurde 1911 gezüchtet und auf einer Fläche angebaut, die den Whitebreads gehörte. Whitbread Golding ist zwar kein echter Golding, dafür sind seine Aromaattribute dem Golding ziemlich ähnlich. In den 1950ern wurde diese Sorte großflächig angebaut, als die Welke die Sorten Fuggles und Golding schwächte."

So it is similar to Goldings, but not real Goldings. You should be good to use it. It has some history, it was once grown in the UK on big scale because the real Goldings and Fuggles were all becoming sick. Now I also want to brew with it Lucky you!

 

[cire]

Well known in UK. I currently have a packet in stock for use in a British style beer.

You searched for whitbread goldings - Charles Faram

Historically, many hops from Kent were sold as Goldings, but they were often different types from farm to farm.

 

[Miraculix]

Well known in UK. I currently have a packet in stock for use in a British style beer.

You searched for whitbread goldings - Charles Faram

Historically, many hops from Kent were sold as Goldings, but they were often different types from farm to farm.

"... A hoppier, more robust aroma...."

That sounds even more interesting to me!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Whitbread Goldings Variety is universally known as WGV, and no, it isn't a real Golding. It's unusual for British hops in that it's about the only non-landrace hop that didn't originate at Wye, but you should perhaps think of it as the only survivor from that generation of hops like Janus and Defender which were planted out of desperation in the face of the verticilium epidemic after WWII.

The only real requirement was a hop that was resistant to wilt, things like flavour and pickability were ignored in the face of an existential threat to hopgrowing in the UK - WGV's big advantage was that it had the backing of Whitbread, and at one point in the mid-1960s it was the biggest hop in England after Goldings and Fuggles. But then Wye developed disease-resistant varieties that were better in other ways, like Target and Challenger, and WGV rather faded away.

It remains dirt cheap, and if you want a cheap way to make a beer that's tastes kinda English, then it's your hop. But I must admit I'm not the greatest fan, although its reputation isn't helped by its association with the worst time of British beer and one of the least inspiring breweries of that period. Since it had some farnesene, which Fuggles has but Goldings doesn't, it was always thought to be a Fuggles derivative but the latest genetic work suggests it has some Goldings parentage.

But it's still not a real Goldings, no more than Bramling Cross or Target are Goldings.

 

[eshea3]

From the British Hop Association

https://www.britishhops.org.uk/varieties/wgv/
FWIW I use Goldings from Stocks Farm all the time. Beer seems to come out fine even though they are not EKG.

 

[bwible]

Styrian Goldings is not a “real” British hop either. How many recipes is that in? Many.

I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze because every store is buying everything from New Zealand for the haze heads over and above everything else. I can’t count the number of those hops, but I pretty much have 4 British hops to choose from.

If I got some WGV I would use it and be happy about it. But I don’t have the history and perspective @Northern_Brewer does.

 

[bwible]

The last Fuggle hops I got were 2.9%

 

[kmarkstevens]

@bwible My experience is that the big on line supply houses constantly have First Gold on sale. I read somewhere on these boards that Northern Brewer and Midwest Brewing Supplies are both liquidating their stock of First Gold. I just picked up 4 pounds at around $3 per pound (sold in 8 oz increments).

First Gold is somewhere around 8% alpha. I've gotten to where I use First Gold as my english bittering hop, and then finish with EKG, Fuggles, BX or First Gold depending on my mood.

 

[Miraculix]

As long as you can get Goldings, everything is fine!

 

[eshea3]

Styrian Goldings is not a “real” British hop either. How many recipes is that in? Many.

I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze because every store is buying everything from New Zealand for the haze heads over and above everything else. I can’t count the number of those hops, but I pretty much have 4 British hops to choose from,

If I got some WGV I would use it and be happy about it. But I don’t have the history and perspective @Northern_Brewer does.

Order from Stocks Farm, HOME - Stocks Farm. They have Target, Pilgrim, Phoenix, Goldings, as well as Jester, Olicana and others. They ship to the US and offer both T-90 and whole cone.