British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

[HTH1975]

I’m gonna brew this one here pretty soon. I have all the ingredients, and have been wanting to brew some English Ales lately.

I had quite the adventure getting the Golden Syrup, but managed to track it down.

Here’s the question:

I ended up with two different types of Lyles golden syrup - one is a cane sugar syrup used for baking, and the other is a desert syrup. The regular one has cane sugar listed as the ingredient and the desert syrup has invert sugar as the ingredient.

Which is the one used in this recipe? The color looks the same to me on both products.

Cheers!

the one with invert sugar is what you want

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Whereas a Brit would know that the classic stuff comes in a can, and would be a bit suspicious of some of the derivatives that come in bottles. They could be the can stuff in a different format, they could be something different.

 

[Miraculix]

Whereas a Brit would know that the classic stuff comes in a can, and would be a bit suspicious of some of the derivatives that come in bottles. They could be the can stuff in a different format, they could be something different.

Those bloody Germans know nothing about Lyle's!

 

[Miraculix]

I used this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lyles-Gold...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01B7GJPYC

Which is supposed to be made of partially inverted sugar sirup.

It has 3g less carbohydrates per 100g than the canned version, which doesn't say what it's made of.

Could be that they lowered the sugar concentration because it's easier to squeeze it out of the bottle, could also be different in other ways.

If you want to stay true to the recipe, use the baking one. If you want to stay true to British tradition, use the canned one.

Probably doesn't make a difference but one never knows!

 

[Hanglow]

I'm fairly sure the dessert version just has a bit of water in it to make it squeezable. So it's slightly less fermentable but other than that I wouldn't worry at all

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The nutrition information says 77.5% sugar versus 80.5% sugar for the canned version.

I'm sure it's fine.

 

[radwizard]

How does this look for the mash water?

99 CALCIUM
14 MAGNESIUM
31 SODIUM
111 SULFATE
79 CHLORIDE
59 BICARBONATE

I have recently been trying to spend more time learning about brew water and mineral additions. For this beer I have more additions then I normally do (I am building from my tap water) .

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

How does this look for the mash water?

99 CALCIUM
14 MAGNESIUM
31 SODIUM
111 SULFATE
79 CHLORIDE
59 BICARBONATE

I have recently been trying to spend more time learning about brew water and mineral additions. For this beer I have more additions then I normally do (I am building from my tap water) .

Cheers!

Looks good! If you want to, you could go a bit higher on sulfate and chloride, 150 sulfate and 100 chloride would be my aim, but yours certainly looks decent. If the Calcium gets a bit higher than anticipated because of the additional Gypsum and CaCl2, so be it. No problem.

 

[radwizard]

Looks good! If you want to, you could go a bit higher on sulfate and chloride, 150 sulfate and 100 chloride would be my aim, but yours certainly looks decent. If the Calcium gets a bit higher than anticipated because of the additional Gypsum and CaCl2, so be it. No problem.

Cool, Thanks!

I have adjusted to:

124 calcium
14 magnesium
31 sodium
148 sulfate
96 chloride
78 bicarbonate

Brewing tomorrow! Cheers!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Personally @radwizard I would advise not take the mineral addition advice above for your water-- you stated you are starting from tap, and we have no idea what is the composition of that water. We have zero way of knowing anything about the minerals that are already present in your tap water, and because of this the mineral additions suggested could get you in the ballpark, or it could royally screw the beer up.

I suggest sharing your tap water's composition first before soliciting requests, or an alternative is to buy distilled tap water and then you have a known "base" from which to take suggestions and build your water profile.

 

[Miraculix]

Personally @radwizard I would advise not take the mineral addition advice above for your water-- you stated you are starting from tap, and we have no idea what is the composition of that water. We have zero way of knowing anything about the minerals that are already present in your tap water, and because of this the mineral additions suggested could get you in the ballpark, or it could royally screw the beer up.

I suggest sharing your tap water's composition first before soliciting requests, or an alternative is to buy distilled tap water and then you have a known "base" from which to take suggestions and build your water profile.

I was under the assumption that he already took his tap water values into account. Otherwise it would not make sense to write the number for the bicarbonate, because he surely would not add this on purpose for this beer, so it must have been already present in his tap water.

 

[radwizard]

I was under the assumption that he already took his tap water values into account. Otherwise it would not make sense to write the number for the bicarbonate, because he surely would not add this on purpose for this beer, so it must have been already present in his tap water.

Yes. What I posted was the end result of my tap water after I make various additions. I am using Brunwater to end up with these results.
I'm sure I could build a perfect English water profile from RO water, but I think my water will sufffice for this. We shall see!!

I really appreciate all the help. Ill report my results back!!
Cheers!

 

[user 263363]

Not an exact copy of this recipe, but close enough to post in here. Same grain bill. OG ended up a little high at 1.049 and is at 1.012 a week later. Still below 5% alcohol so I’m pleased with that. The sample tastes better than I even hoped for. Can’t wait to bottle this baby up and get it carbed.

 

[user 263363]

After a week in the bottle this brew is excellent. Needs more carb, but the taste is right there.

 

[Miraculix]

After a week in the bottle this brew is excellent. Needs more carb, but the taste is right there.

View attachment 670919

Glad that you like it! The colour looks like mine

 

[user 263363]

Here’s a couple better pictures after fully carbed. Both are over 5 minutes after pouring. Probably the best head retention of any brew I’ve done yet.

The taste is malty caramel without being cloying at all. I could use just a smidge more hop bitterness, but nothing I can’t look over at all.

Thanks @Miraculix for the recipe.

 

[Miraculix]

Here’s a couple better pictures after fully carbed. Both are over 5 minutes after pouring. Probably the best head retention of any brew I’ve done yet.

The taste is malty caramel without being cloying at all. I could use just a smidge more hop bitterness, but nothing I can’t look over at all.

Thanks @Miraculix for the recipe.

View attachment 671569
View attachment 671568

Looks really good! I think the great head is due to the temperature step at 72 and 77 c in combination with the wheat.

When I was brewing this, I kept the hops inside while letting it cool slowly within a water bath, so this might have extracted a bit more ibus then listed... Or maybe not and it's just a matter of personal taste. Whatever, I'm really glad you like it!

 

[kmarkstevens]

Can't believe I haven't found this thread earlier. It's in the pipeline to brew!

 

[Miraculix]

Can't believe I haven't found this thread earlier. It's in the pipeline to brew!

Nice! Let me know how it goes

 

[z-bob]

@Miraculix It sounds like Imperial Pub yeast is the key ingredient, and after that the choice of crystal malts might be important. How do you think Willamette hops would work instead of Goldings, Cobb, or First Gold? It won't be the same beer, but should be close, right? I *might* have some Goldings in the freezer but I don't think so. I know I have Magnum. And a little bit of Fuggle, but Willamette seems the closest. Don't think there's any Bramling Cross left...

I want to brew something using ingredients I have already (besides the yeast) and this would be a good style to use my homemade medium-dark invert syrup. I usually brew 4 gallon batches but I think my equipment can handle 5 (one jar of the syrup is too much for 4 gallons but just about right for 5.)

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix It sounds like Imperial Pub yeast is the key ingredient, and after that the choice of crystal malts might be important. How do you think Willamette hops would work instead of Goldings, Cobb, or First Gold? It won't be the same beer, but should be close, right? I *might* have some Goldings in the freezer but I don't think so. I know I have Magnum. And a little bit of Fuggle, but Willamette seems the closest. Don't think there's any Bramling Cross left...

I want to brew something using ingredients I have already (besides the yeast) and this would be a good style to use my homemade medium-dark invert syrup. I usually brew 4 gallon batches but I think my equipment can handle 5 (one jar of the syrup is too much for 4 gallons but just about right for 5.)

I don't know about the hops. If you would ask me if saaz would also work or mittelfrüh, then it would be easy, these would work.

But Willamette brings some citrus notes with it, that I cannot really judge.

It will be a bit different, but if Willamette doesn't bring in the American hop flavour like the big Cs do, then it should work.

I never used fuggles, but as far as I have read, they wouldn'tt be the best choice for this beer.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@Miraculix It sounds like Imperial Pub yeast is the key ingredient, and after that the choice of crystal malts might be important. How do you think Willamette hops would work instead of Goldings, Cobb, or First Gold? It won't be the same beer, but should be close, right? I *might* have some Goldings in the freezer but I don't think so. I know I have Magnum. And a little bit of Fuggle, but Willamette seems the closest.

Bitter is not very tightly defined like eg Czech pilsner or steam beer. With almost every one of the 2200+ breweries in Britain producing it in some form or other (even the cool kids like Cloudwater do it as a special sometimes), there's a huge range of interpretations, particularly between regions. So it's very much a vehicle for expressing terroir and a brewery's "personality". So don't sweat it.

Yes, Willamette will be fine - it's fairly different to Goldings, but that's OK. And/or throw the Fuggle in with the Willamette.

Yeast is one of the ways that different breweries distinguish themselves, you just want a nice expressive one. Which it seems A09 is from what I read, but don't feel you have to use it.

 

[z-bob]

Thanks. I also have some Northern Brewer hops. (either German or UK, not US) I might use them for the bittering and then use a light hand with the Fuggle. I don't want to overpower the malt.

 

[Miraculix]

Bitter is not very tightly defined like eg Czech pilsner or steam beer. With almost every one of the 2200+ breweries in Britain producing it in some form or other (even the cool kids like Cloudwater do it as a special sometimes), there's a huge range of interpretations, particularly between regions. So it's very much a vehicle for expressing terroir and a brewery's "personality". So don't sweat it.

Yes, Willamette will be fine - it's fairly different to Goldings, but that's OK. And/or throw the Fuggle in with the Willamette.

Yeast is one of the ways that different breweries distinguish themselves, you just want a nice expressive one. Which it seems A09 is from what I read, but don't feel you have to use it.

Good evening! Long time no see!

I hope you are doing well over there in lockdown UK. In Germany it is all good, people are crazy and shouting at each other a lot, so pretty much normal daylie routine everywhere.

I completely agree with what you say. One thing I would like to add is that for this particular beer, I had a particular flavour in mind. Noble hops will all go into that direction and it will differ only slightly from the original version if there would be, for example, saaz used, instead of goldings. However, I feel a bit like hops that go more into other directions, might shift the beer into a completely different direction. Not necessarily a bad one though, but not too close to the original version. And the original version really is worth being brewed, never ever brewed a beer like this again.... unfortunately.

I just had one of my second brew (not the beer from this thread) here in Germany, first one was brewed with wlp 002 because I couldn't get pub, and it was a dumper. Fermented too hot, tasted ab bit like fusels and it gave me the headache from hell the next day after only having two.

My new brew was fermented cooler and with wlp 041 pacific ale, much better, no detectable fusels, but not british at all. Tastes a bit like US05 on steroids regarding ester expression. Not bad, but not what I was looking for. Next one will be an oldschool Manchester inspired golden ale. Dry, 40 Ibus, only pale malt and sugar plus safale04 at lower temperatures. Always wanted to try this. Simple grain bill, simple and cheap dry yeast with great flocculation and hopefully easy drinker with a good bitterness.

Wish me luck!

 

[Shenanigans]

Good evening! Long time no see!

I hope you are doing well over there in lockdown UK. In Germany it is all good, people are crazy and shouting at each other a lot, so pretty much normal daylie routine everywhere.

I completely agree with what you say. One thing I would like to add is that for this particular beer, I had a particular flavour in mind. Noble hops will all go into that direction and it will differ only slightly from the original version if there would be, for example, saaz used, instead of goldings. However, I feel a bit like hops that go more into other directions, might shift the beer into a completely different direction. Not necessarily a bad one though, but not too close to the original version. And the original version really is worth being brewed, never ever brewed a beer like this again.... unfortunately.

I just had one of my second brew here in germany, first one was brewed with wlp 002 because I couldn#t get pub, and it was a dumper. Fermented too hot, tasted ab bit like fusels and it gave me the headache from hell the next day after only having two.

My new brew was fermented cooler and with wlp 041 pacific ale, much better, no detectable fusels, but not british at all. Tastes a bit like US05 on steroids regarding ester expression. Not bad, but not what I am looking for. Next one will be an oldschool Manchester inspired golden ale. Dry, 40 Ibus, only pale malt and sugar plus safale04 at lower temperatures.

Wish me luck!

You can order pub here, a bit expensive but worth it if it's what you need

https://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/Imperial-Yeast-A09-Pub-Ale-liquid-Yeast
Think it was unavailable for a while because Imperial stated that it was organic on the pack but it didnt conform to European standards to be offically called organic. Not sure how it ended but they probabaly removed the organic from the pack and now it can be sold here.

Viel Gluck!

 

[Miraculix]

You can order pub here, a bit expensive but worth it if it's what you need

https://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/Imperial-Yeast-A09-Pub-Ale-liquid-Yeast
Think it was unavailable for a while because Imperial stated that it was organic on the pack but it didnt conform to European standards to be offically called organic. Not sure how it ended but they probabaly removed the organic from the pack and now it can be sold here.

Viel Gluck!

Thanks!

I know. I tried to order it there, but it had a waiting time of about a month. So I asked them to swap it for wlp 002.... not he best idea I ever had.

 

[kmarkstevens]

After flagging this thread a year ago, I re-discovered it, and tonight have taken a crack at it myself. In the boil now, so give me about 2 weeks and I'll check back in on how my attempt has gone. Using First Gold, Pub, Viking 2-row ('cause that's what I have), torrified barley, bairds crystal.

 

[Miraculix]

After flagging this thread a year ago, I re-discovered it, and tonight have taken a crack at it myself. In the boil now, so give me about 2 weeks and I'll check back in on how my attempt has gone. Using First Gold, Pub, Viking 2-row ('cause that's what I have), torrified barley, bairds crystal.

Nice! Looking forward hearing about your results. Pub is the key, but I never did this with torrified barley. Are you using it instead of the wheat?

 

[kmarkstevens]

Into the keg today for spunding. Hydrometer taste was a bit "watery". Also FG was 1006, which is worrysome I have an infection low. Will see in a couple of days. Fingers crossed it all works in the glass

 

[Miraculix]

Into the keg today for spunding. Hydrometer taste was a bit "watery". Also FG was 1006, which is worrysome I have an infection low. Will see in a couple of days. Fingers crossed it all works in the glass

That actually seems a bit low. Mine was never that low, you are right. And my samples also were never watery.

 

[kmarkstevens]

much better after spunding in the keg. There is still something off on this one, and given Pub is incapable of finishing below 1010 much less a FG of 1006 I am pretty sure a wild yeast or mild bacteria joined the party. It is drinkable and should quaff at least half of the keg if not all of it.

I'm putting the recipe in the rotation to give it another go and ensure I get a clean ferment out of it. Siphonless fermenters don't need to have the pour spout taken apart and cleaned every brew, but in my experience they should be cleaned at least every couple of times to avoid an unwanted guest joining in.

 

[Genuine]

Looking to break in my new 20 gallon kettle and I'm yearning to have some English pale ale on tap to guide me through the winter months here. Loving the photos of the beers, great color and flavor seems to be spot on for what I'm looking for! Can't wait to brew this one!

 

[Miraculix]

Looking to break in my new 20 gallon kettle and I'm yearning to have some English pale ale on tap to guide me through the winter months here. Loving the photos of the beers, great color and flavor seems to be spot on for what I'm looking for! Can't wait to brew this one!

Get the Pub Yeast! It is not the same with 002. Not bad with 002, but much better with Pub.

 

[Genuine]

Get the Pub Yeast! It is not the same with 002. Not bad with 002, but much better with Pub.

Funny you say that! I have a pouch in the fridge that I've been wondering what to use it on and this will be it! I'll do 5 gallons with Pub and 5 gallons with something like s-04 to compare differences

 

[Miraculix]

Funny you say that! I have a pouch in the fridge that I've been wondering what to use it on and this will be it! I'll do 5 gallons with Pub and 5 gallons with something like s-04 to compare differences

That is a good idea. My personal guess is, that 04 might be not the best fit for it (although certainly a valid possibility). Do you also have something with a lower attenuation flying around? Thinking of Windsor or Lallemand "English style Ale yeast London" (was this one renamed? I remember it being caled ESB Yeast?).

On the other hand, I am very curious how this one would work with 04, as I use this yeast myself in some beers, just finished a Machester Ale inspired Ale with it which turned out nice.

Do you have a good temperature control`? If so, I would recommend using 04 around 19 degrees to get some of the esters it can give you. Fermented at the lwoer end, it is too clean for a beer like this, if you ask me. My machester type ale turned out surprinsingly clean with a little bit of sulfor. I fermented it at around 16 degrees celsius.

 

[Genuine]

That is a good idea. My personal guess is, that 04 might be not the best fit for it (although certainly a valid possibility). Do you also have something with a lower attenuation flying around? Thinking of Windsor or Lallemand "English style Ale yeast London" (was this one renamed? I remember it being caled ESB Yeast?).

On the other hand, I am very curious how this one would work with 04, as I use this yeast myself in some beers, just finished a Machester Ale inspired Ale with it which turned out nice.

Do you have a good temperature control`? If so, I would recommend using 04 around 19 degrees to get some of the esters it can give you. Fermented at the lwoer end, it is too clean for a beer like this, if you ask me. My machester type ale turned out surprinsingly clean with a little bit of sulfor. I fermented it at around 16 degrees celsius.

I may have a pouch of Imperial's Juice that I could use, I'll have to check, however I think that one is closer to London Ale III. I usually ferment in my basement that stays in the mid to upper 60 degrees F, sometimes it dips to the lower 60's. I could always put the fermenter up stairs where it's at minimum 68 degrees F. I'm excited to try it!

 

[Miraculix]

One more thing, I think it is

I may have a pouch of Imperial's Juice that I could use, I'll have to check, however I think that one is closer to London Ale III. I usually ferment in my basement that stays in the mid to upper 60 degrees F, sometimes it dips to the lower 60's. I could always put the fermenter up stairs where it's at minimum 68 degrees F. I'm excited to try it!

If you ferment with 04 without active temperature control, put it in a waterbath to create a bigger thermal mass. Otherwise the fermentation itself will raise the temperature for 4-6 degrees celsius. 04 is a beast and creates a lot of heat during the first two days. afterwards, it is not so crucial anymore.

When I used pub, I never did this. Pub should be fine on its own.

I never used imperial juice, so I have no idea about this one. I would be more curious how the pub version compares to one of the dry yeasts, but this is just my curiosity. I would choose s 04 because of this curiosity, but this is really because of me wanting to know how it compares. It might not be the best option if you want the best possible outcome.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I'd like to see a split batch comparing Verdant and A09 Pub.

 

[Miraculix]

I'd like to see a split batch comparing Verdant and A09 Pub.

That would be indeed very interesting. I got verdant in my fridge, but no second fermenter. I will use it probably very soon for a very easy british bitter or even apa. Depending on the hops.

 

[Novims]

I brewed this one with dextrose instead of the syrup using 002. Best english beer I ever brewed. 74% attenuation.
Simple. Thick. Tasty.
I can only imagine how good it would be with the proper syrup.