British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

[kmarkstevens]

I would send folks on to this link for the Machine House Mild Clone: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/machine-house-mild-clong.697000/

 

[Cheshire Cat]

For me both Mild and Porter are very poor examples of British beers. I have never brew either and they are styles from yester year when male drinkers wore flat caps and bred whippets. Bitter a wonderful beer is struggling to compete with lager and IPA’s. Trends change.

 

[eshea3]

For me both Mild and Porter are very poor examples of British beers. I have never brew either and they are styles from yester year when male drinkers wore flat caps and bred whippets. Bitter a wonderful beer is struggling to compete with lager and IPA’s. Trends change.

Guinness is able to sell a low alcohol dark beer from yester year. It's also a country where male drinkers wore ( and sometimes still wear) flat caps. Hmmm. Must be that nitrogen.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Stout is a great beer brewed all over the world from Africa, West Indies, British Isles, USA, Belgium and Far East. Porter is a poor predecessor and Mild is awful. In the UK Mild was where the slops (leftover beer) went along with cigarette ash.

 

[Miraculix]

Stout is a great beer brewed all over the world from Africa, West Indies, British Isles, USA, Belgium and Far East. Porter is a poor predecessor and Mild is awful. In the UK Mild was where the slops (leftover beer) went along with cigarette ash.

Porter and stout is just a different naming for the same type of beer. What you do not like is a badly brewed stout/badly brewed porter. And I agree on that.

They used to butcher dark mild in the UK with your mentioned "process", that's also true. A well executed dark mild on the other hand is a marvelous beer.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Each to their own

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ok all you folks, it's up to us to save the English Mild.

That's perhaps one for the main "English" thread here rather than this one, but it's actually had a modest revival among the cool kids in the UK in recent years. But if it's to be saved in the US, USians *really* need to learn how to serve it. Putting mild on keg and turning up the CO2 to 2.5+vol just completely wrecks it - CO2 is an ingredient and British beer is all about balance, in all the ingredients.

 

[balrog]

That's perhaps one for the main "English" thread here rather than this one, but it's actually had a modest revival among the cool kids in the UK in recent years. But if it's to be saved in the US, USians *really* need to learn how to serve it. Putting mild on keg and turning up the CO2 to 2.5+vol just completely wrecks it - CO2 is an ingredient and British beer is all about balance, in all the ingredients.

Gravity feed from a plastic collapsible pin, eh?

 

[kmarkstevens]

That's perhaps one for the main "English" thread here rather than this one, but it's actually had a modest revival among the cool kids in the UK in recent years. But if it's to be saved in the US, USians *really* need to learn how to serve it. Putting mild on keg and turning up the CO2 to 2.5+vol just completely wrecks it - CO2 is an ingredient and British beer is all about balance, in all the ingredients.

How does Machine House mild rank?

It's one Englishman's take on mild, but I love this stuff. Recipe and hints from the brewer are here. BTW, 11th anniversary today. Have some strong ales on gravity pour that are pretty good, also unveiled a Cascade hopped bitter on cask. Cascade are not my preferred hop, but the cask is nicely bitter.

Since it's the 11th anniversary, also on cask:
Dark Mild 3.7%
Best bitter 4.2%
Cambridge Bitter 3.8%
Stinging Nettle Ale 5.4%
Summer Ale 4.6%
Golden Ale 4.5%

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Gravity feed from a plastic collapsible pin, eh?

Just anything other than jamming it full of high pressure CO2. Even the taprooms of big name US craft brewers don't seem to have sussed that yet, where they don't have the excuse of someone else screwing up the cellarmanship. I presume they have the ability to control gas pressure on a per-line basis.

How does Machine House mild rank?

Well at least they have the huge advantage of serving on cask. Personally it's a touch roasty for my platonic ideal of a mild, but it's still a nice beer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@Miraculix I recently brewed a very similar bitter, using this one as a rough guide, but not exactly the same. I hopped with First Gold and fermented with A09. I used RO water with mineral additions close to yours, but again not exact. The initial taste is slightly off-putting, quite minerally, although it does fade a bit and the MO and a bit of marmalade do come through. Not horrible, but I was envisioning something a bit better, smoother maybe. Can you take a look to see if there's anything I missed?

OG: 1.037
FG: 1.008
BIAB 2.75gal/10.4L
Water: RO
Minerals ppm:
Calcium: 115.6
Sodium : 14.8
Sulfate : 151.7
Chloride: 92.5
Bicarb : 39.1
Beersmith pH estimated 5.38

77.2% Crisp Maris Otter
9% Torrified Wheat
3.9% Simpson's DRC
9.9% Lyle's Golden Syrup @ flameout

Hops:
First Gold 10.5 ibu @ 60
First Gold 8.3 ibu @ 20
First Gold 5.7 ibu @ 5
First Gold 1.9 ibu whirlpool @ 170°f / 77°c 15 mins.

yeast: Imperial Pub A09 1pk

Fermentation 8 days @ 65°f / 18°c
2 days @ 68°f / 20°c cold crashed 2 days then kegged

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix I recently brewed a very similar bitter, using this one as a rough guide, but not exactly the same. I hopped with First Gold and fermented with A09. I used RO water with mineral additions close to yours, but again not exact. The initial taste is slightly off-putting, quite minerally, although it does fade a bit and the MO and a bit of marmalade do come through. Not horrible, but I was envisioning something a bit better, smoother maybe. Can you take a look to see if there's anything I missed?

OG: 1.037
FG: 1.008
BIAB 2.75gal/10.4L
Water: RO
Minerals ppm:
Calcium: 115.6
Sodium : 14.8
Sulfate : 151.7
Chloride: 92.5
Bicarb : 39.1
Beersmith pH estimated 5.38

77.2% Crisp Maris Otter
9% Torrified Wheat
3.9% Simpson's DRC
9.9% Lyle's Golden Syrup @ flameout

Hops:
First Gold 10.5 ibu @ 60
First Gold 8.3 ibu @ 20
First Gold 5.7 ibu @ 5
First Gold 1.9 ibu whirlpool @ 170°f / 77°c 15 mins.

yeast: Imperial Pub A09 1pk

Fermentation 8 days @ 65°f / 18°c
2 days @ 68°f / 20°c cold crashed 2 days then kegged

Should be fine if you ask me! I have made tests with different mineral levels and the real minerally thing started to appear beyond levels of 250ppm sulfate. Chloride did not really seem to have a big impact on that. If you are sensivitve to sulfate, it might be better to lower it to 100 ppm.

But I think it could maybe be misinterpreted and actually come from the DRC maybe? Do you know this malt well? It can come through a bit harsh. Also the Ibus are pretty low. Not impossible, but definitely on the low side. I tend to brew my bitters now between 35 to 42 IBUs.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Should be fine if you ask me! I have made tests with different mineral levels and the real minerally thing started to appear beyond levels of 250ppm sulfate. Chloride did not really seem to have a big impact on that. If you are sensivitve to sulfate, it might be better to lower it to 100 ppm.

But I think it could maybe be misinterpreted and actually come from the DRC maybe? Do you know this malt well? It can come through a bit harsh. Also the Ibus are pretty low. Not impossible, but definitely on the low side. I tend to brew my bitters now between 35 to 42 IBUs.

Thanks for taking a look. I hadn't considered a sensitivity to sulfate, but I haven't noticed anything like that with past homebrews. The DRC comment is interesting. I've only used it a couple times. I'll have to go back and look at any tasting notes from those beers to see if there's a pattern with either sulfate or DRC. Cheers!!

 

[BongoYodeler]

Thanks for taking a look. I hadn't considered a sensitivity to sulfate, but I haven't noticed anything like that with past homebrews. The DRC comment is interesting. I've only used it a couple times. I'll have to go back and look at any tasting notes from those beers to see if there's a pattern with either sulfate or DRC. Cheers!!

You may have hit it correctly @Miraculix I went back and looked at my old recipes, and my favorite bitter I've brewed actually had even more sulfate (225ppm), than this one. But it also had zero DRC. I remember it being quite smooth, with none of the harshness of my current bitter. So I'll rebrew this some time without the DRC, but instead try to find Crisp Crystal malt Ebc 150 in its place.

 

[jdubdvdt]

I did not feel like digging through the posts, but have you updated the recipe or found any improvements?
I want to add this one to my list.

Seeing 1.043 OG, 1.009 FG with the A09 yeast using the proportions you mention in your original post
75% Maris Otter
10% Golden Syrup (lyles)
10% Flaked Wheat
5% Light Crystal 150

All my hop additions are roughly 0.08oz per gallon (roughly 2.25g/gal) to get to 30 IBU.

Looks like a good beer, but interested in any improvements before I give this a go for a spring time beer. Thanks

 

[Miraculix]

I did not feel like digging through the posts, but have you updated the recipe or found any improvements?
I want to add this one to my list.

Seeing 1.043 OG, 1.009 FG with the A09 yeast using the proportions you mention in your original post
75% Maris Otter
10% Golden Syrup (lyles)
10% Flaked Wheat
5% Light Crystal 150

All my hop additions are roughly 0.08oz per gallon (roughly 2.25g/gal) to get to 30 IBU.

Looks like a good beer, but interested in any improvements before I give this a go for a spring time beer. Thanks

You want to make sure that it is a British crystal, best would be the one I named in the initial post. And make sure to do a hoch kurz step mash. I have tried single infusion but hoch kurz turned out to give the best results.

 

[wsmith1625]

Good Evening,

as I am drinking one right now, I feel like sharing the recipe of my best beer so far. I nailed the beer I had in mind 100% with the first shot, which never happened before. So don't judge me for being a tad bit proud. I shared the beer with a lot of friends yesterday and everybody was blown away, so my initial feeling was confirmed.

I believe that beer recipes should be as simple as possible and as complex as necessary, therfore my approach for this one wasn't too complicated.

I like the flavour of the southern English ales, but I do not like the cloying sweetness of, for example fullers. But the flavour of fullers is nice. So my aim was to get something with the nice and English fullers Flavour, but without it's cloying sweetness. In addition, I like a bit of head on my beer and a bit of carbonation. I took all of this into consideration and created the following recipe, which has all of the mentioned attributes.

Please keep in mind that this is for a 4.5 american gallon batch at 80% efficiency, therefore I give you the percentage in brackets by total fermentables so that you can adjust for your own system.

Ingredients:

1.8 kg Marris Otter (75%)
0.2kg spelt malt (torrified wheat or wheat malt works as well) (10%)
0.125 Crisp Crystal malt Ebc 150, 57L (5%)
0.3kg Golden Syrup (10%)

Hops: Magnum and Cobb's Golding (can be substituted with Goldings if not available)


MO is the base malt, could be theoretically substituted for similar base malts.

Spelt malt is in it to promote the head of the beer, you can use torrified wheat or wheat malt as well, this should also do the trick.

Crisp Crystal malt brings some caramel flavour. I recommend sticking to the one I used as crystal malt's tastes differ from maltster to maltster, even when having the same color.

Golden Sirup is used for flavour and to up the attenuation a bit. The choosen yeast strain is very very very tasty, but unfortunately a weak attenuator. It will flocc out like a stone but leave a cloyingly sweet beer, if not treated the right way.

Therfore the following mash schedule, to enhance head on the one side and attenuation on the other:

Water:

The water should promote Hops, but not too much. Aim for something like this:

Sulfate: 150
Chloride: 90
Calcium: 100

Lowest alkalinity possible.

This is meant as a ballpark thing. Don't sweat it too much. If you have more alkalinity, compensate with acidulated malt or some acid.


Mash Schedule:

1. Protein rest for 10 min @55c (this enhances head retention, but keep it short, and do not go lower than 55c!)

2. 45min @62C

3. 45min @72C

4. 15min @76C (Mashout, this releases a certain type of proteins that will also enhance head retention, just do it, also if you biab as I do )

After the mash finished, time for the 30 min boil with the following hop additions:

Hops Schedule:

@30min: 8g Magnum (11.9% Alpha) and 10g Cobb's Golding (6.1% Alpha)
@10min: 15g Cobb's Golding
@Flame out: 15g Cobb's Golding

NO DRY HOPS

This should add up to 30 Ibus.
Please adjust accordingly to your Hops and to your Flame out heat. Mine takes longer to chill, I will therefore get more Ibus out of it. You might need to add a little bit more Hops to the 30min addition.

The aim is to get the hops presence/flavour/aroma in the final beer, but not to overpower the caramel and marmelade tones of the yeast and crystal malts.

Chill this down to 25c, pitch the yeast and let it ride till it is finished without further temperature control at room temperature. It should be done in less than 4 days with the recommended yeast.

If you need to use dry yeast, windsor should be the closest, but this will yield a completely different beer. The Imperial Pub Yeast really provides this fullers marmelade moreish type of thing to the beer. It is simply amazing.

Carbonation: 2.5g sugar per 0.5l beer

This beer will be (semi) dry with an attenuation of about 75%. LOADS of flavour, low ABV and really really moreish.

I hope you guys enjoy it as much as me and my friends did

Let me know how you like it!

@Miraculix, when do you add the golden syrup? Also, I don't think I can find Cobb hops anywhere, so I'm substituting with East Kent Goldings? Sound okay, or do you recommend a different hop? I'm putting this recipe into Beersmith for my next brew.

 

[balrog]

@Miraculix, when do you add the golden syrup? Also, I don't think I can find Cobb hops anywhere, so I'm substituting with East Kent Goldings? Sound okay, or do you recommend a different hop? I'm putting this recipe into Beersmith for my next brew.

I add it at the end of the boil.

 

[Miraculix]

Miraculix, when do you add the golden syrup? Also, I don't think I can find Cobb hops anywhere, so I'm substituting with East Kent Goldings? Sound okay, or do you recommend a different hop? I'm putting this recipe into Beersmith for my next brew.

Cobb is just a brand name for a regular goldings from a specific farm. I didn't know that when I wrote this thread. So your are good with any Goldings available. I've also had great success with replacing it with Mittelfrüh. Any noble hop that you personally like will result in a nice beer with this recipe.

Invert can best be added at flame out. Sometimes I also add it before, as long as it doesn't scorch, it doesn't really matter.

 

[An Ankoù]

Also, I don't think I can find Cobb hops anywhere,

I don't think you'll find them today, unless it's from a small grower or unless you grow your own. They used to be common, but that was a long time ago. The variety was derived from another hop, Canterbury Whitebine, you won't find that easily, either, if at all. It was quite susceptible to a whole array of common diseases and lost acreage to ore resistant varieties. The online substitution sites recommend EKG as the closest you'll get.
But if you find a supplier, let me know.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't think you'll find them today, unless it's from a small grower or unless you grow your own. They used to be common, but that was a long time ago. The variety was derived from another hop, Canterbury Whitebine, you won't find that easily, either, if at all. It was quite susceptible to a whole array of common diseases and lost acreage to ore resistant varieties. The online substitution sites recommend EKG as the closest you'll get.
But if you find a supplier, let me know.

You're sure about that? My last info was that it's basically goldings from a specific grower.

 

[cire]

Any sugar addition, either solid or syrup, can be placed in a jug and dissolved in hot wort from the boiler before the end of the boil. It may take several additions of boiling wort to fully dissolve the sugars, but allows chance for temperature rise to the higher boiling point without danger of scorching the additions.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You're sure about that? My last info was that it's basically goldings from a specific grower.

No - Cobbs is one of several named clones of Goldings that were selected in the late 19th century. Bramling, Rodmersham/Mercers, Petham, Amos' Early Bird and Eastwell are others examples.

Brook House happened to grow the Cobbs clone and so they included it in the description when they were selling "Goldings", but it wasn't their trademark or anything like that. Quite a bit still gets grown but it's always sold as simply "Goldings", mixed in with other clones - Brook House were unusual in separating out a single clone like that.

So Cobbs is just a kind of Goldings, and can be substituted by any other (true) Goldings.

RDWHAHB

 

[wsmith1625]

Cobb is just a brand name for a regular goldings from a specific farm. I didn't know that when I wrote this thread. So your are good with any Goldings available. I've also had great success with replacing it with Mittelfrüh. Any noble hop that you personally like will result in a nice beer with this recipe.

Invert can best be added at flame out. Sometimes I also add it before, as long as it doesn't scorch, it doesn't really matter.

Thanks! I was thinking flameout, but wanted to try and stay true to your recipe.

 

[jdubdvdt]

No - Cobbs is one of several named clones of Goldings that were selected in the late 19th century. Bramling, Rodmersham/Mercers, Petham, Amos' Early Bird and Eastwell are others examples.

Brook House happened to grow the Cobbs clone and so they included it in the description when they were selling "Goldings", but it wasn't their trademark or anything like that. Quite a bit still gets grown but it's always sold as simply "Goldings", mixed in with other clones - Brook House were unusual in separating out a single clone like that.

So Cobbs is just a kind of Goldings, and can be substituted by any other (true) Goldings.

RDWHAHB

What would you consider a true goldings? I can follow a lot of heritage but this Cobbs stuff has me wondering.

 

[An Ankoù]

What would you consider a true goldings? I can follow a lot of heritage but this Cobbs stuff has me wondering.

If you stick with East Kent Goldings, you won't go wrong. That's not to say that hops grown elsewhere are not as "true" , but they may have slightly different characteristics. Terroir and climate play a role. Hops from the same garden are slightly different in different years. I use French-grown goldings and they have a slightly different character.

Some varieties are not goldings at all: Styrian or Savinjski Goldings and Whitbread Goldings Variety - WGV, come from a different lineage.

 

[Miraculix]

I think even the year's climate might have a bigger influence on the character than the differences between all the real Goldings. I would just buy from a high quality source and be good with it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

What would you consider a true goldings? I can follow a lot of heritage but this Cobbs stuff has me wondering.

Any of the "classic" clones like Cobbs, Bramling, Rodmersham/Mercers, Petham, Amos' Early Bird, Eastwell (and Mathon, which is the main clone in Herefordshire). But it's the sort of thing that's important to growers as they eg have slightly different harvest times but you'll never hear about them as a brewer*, they're all just sold as Goldings.

But yeah, I was trying to differentiate the "true" Goldings family from the ones that hijacked the name as a symbol of quality even though they are genetically distant - like WGV and Styrian "Goldings".

*not quite true - the brewers in Kent with close ties to growers will specify different clones for different additions, but that's a) because they can and b) is getting super, super picky.

 

[balrog]

Made another batch today. Might be heretical but no Goldings on hand and used Mittelfruh. Apologies to @Miraculix .
I'll work on my hop inventory for next time.

 

[An Ankoù]

Made another batch today. Might be heretical but no Goldings on hand and used Mittelfruh. Apologies to @Miraculix .
I'll work on my hop inventory for next time.

Mittelfrüh is a great hop and will work very nicely with the style.
Back in the day (19th 20th C) when hops were primarily for bittering, it wasn't unusual to use European or even American hops. Of course, English Golden Ale hadn't been invented then.