Mineral Poor, High Alkaline Water

[Osedax]

Water profiles have been covered a lot. However, I haven't found a report with my problem yet. I have been reading a lot on water chemistry lately. The book "Water" is fantastic! I believe I can manipulate my water into around 75% of beer styles but, I'm not quite sure. Like the title says: I have very low sodium, calcium, sulfate, and chloride but high alkalinity. Can I just manage this with gypsum, calcium sulfate, hydrochloric, and sulfuric acid? (With safety obviously) Are there any beer styles it would be better for? Any I can't brew? Most light lagers I would think. Its sort of a weird profile.

The following report is for a shallow well in mid-state PA. I also have a deep artesian well. I don't have a report for it yet and it is a quarter mile from my barn, where I brew. Anyway here is the report:

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 152
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.25
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.6 / 2.7

Sodium, Na 8
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 35
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 113
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 2
Chloride, Cl 2
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 149
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 122
Total Phosphorus, P 0.03
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mabrungard]

That is a fine water to start with. Any acid will be usable to neutralize the modest alkalinity.

 

[ajdelange]

Your water is actually not mineral poor. It has calcium and magnesium which almost balance the alkalinity with the slack being taken up by bit of sodium and a pinch of potassium.

As you are low in sulfate and chloride the obvious way to take care of the alkalinity is with a mix of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids if you can get them in food grade. In the UK there is a product (CRS) sold to home (and commercial) brewers for exactly this purpose but I've never seen it offered in the US. Here the options are to dispatch the alkalinity with phosphoric or lactic acid or to dilute it away with RO water (4:1 dilution would get it down to 24). In any case you will want to supplement chloride and sulfate. For light lagers you would take the RO dilution option and supplement only the chloride unless you are shooting for an Export or something similar.

 

[Osedax]

Yeah, mineral was the wrong word. "Ions that I want" poor. Either way, thanks guys. I was thinking the same thing but, I just needed someone who understands water chemistry better than I to back it up. I have no idea where I can get hydrochloric or sulfuric acid from. Food grade is the problem. I am hoping to hunt down a science or lab supply store. I suppose I could always take the alkalinity down with phosphoric acid. Then, bump everything up with gypsum, epsom salt, and calcium chloride. The trick will be balancing the additions so I don't have too much calcium or salt.

I have noticed a huge improvement in my beers by adding a blend of gypsum and calcium chloride in the glass. Makes a lot more flavor jump out. The same beers seem bland in comparison now. Can't wait for my first water adjusted brew!

With suggestion from you ajdelange, I picked up a Hach pocket pro+ pH meter. Seems like a solid meter.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Your alkalinity is certainly not that high! Overall you're starting w/ a pretty damn good base water IMO, so consider yourself very fortunate. We'd pay good money to swap water profiles with you!

AJ and Martin pretty much covered everything, however...so I can't really add much.

 

[Cidermann]

Swimming pool Acid is close enough to food grade. People drink pool water all the time, if only by accident. Most pool chemicals are of Water Treatment grade which might even be better than food grade.

I have a pool service company. I buy 50 pound bags of Bicarb and CaCl2 and NACL for pool water chemistry. I use them in my beer when I need any of them. I think I could dilute the HCL enough to use it, but I don't need the CL- ions. I get Phosphoric Acid from the home brew shop. I can also get Sulfuric Acid there if I need it, otherwise Scientific Supply houses, online.

FYI liquid pool Chlorine is about 12% Sodium Hypochlorite (Bleach) when fresh. degrades fast with heat and sun light to about 10%. The rest is lye (NAOH)

We dilute it 50% to use in the wash. Store bought bleach is about 5% strength. as is diluted with water for safety.

 

[ajdelange]

Swimming pool Acid is close enough to food grade.

A major requirement for FCC certification is that the processing and packaging equipment which has been approved for the handling of food products has been used. Are you saying that pool chemicals are put up in food plants? Or that the plants are FDA inspected.

Most pool chemicals are of Water Treatment grade which might even be better than food grade.

I've heard of FCC, ACS, NF, USP, Reagent, Technical, AR etc. but I've never heard of Water Treatment grade. Can you point me somewhere? And how would this grade be 'better' than Food grade. Food grade isn't 'better' than CP for example, which would have the highest purity but still no be allowable in food because it was not packaged in a food plant. CP taken to an approved facility would be FCC and CP at the same time however.

I think I could dilute the HCL enough to use it,

Given that you are willing to accept the risks attendant in handling hydrochloric acid (which are not great as it is sold at every hardware store) and willing to use non FCC in your brewing you wouldn't need to dilute it. For example, the water being discussed here has a proton deficit (alkalinity) WRT a typical mash pH of 5.4 of about 2.2 mEq/L and to treat 20 L of it would require, therefore, 44 mEq which, as 23 Be' HCl is 12.39 N, means you'd need a bit less than 2 mL of the straight stuff.

but I don't need the CL- ions.

But a lot of people do which is why CRS is such a great product. I can't advocate using hydrochloric acid from the hardware store or the pool supply store for brewing but I have used the latter for shocking my well.

I can also get Sulfuric Acid there if I need it,

Now that's interesting. I have never seen sulfuric acid offered by an LHBS. Who packages this stuff? Is it one of the big suppliers. I don't see why, if they can sell dilute FCC phosphoric acid they can't sell dilute FCC sulfuric and hydrochloric acids - or CRS but they don't AFAIK so this is definitely.

FYI liquid pool Chlorine is about 12% Sodium Hypochlorite (Bleach) when fresh. degrades fast with heat and sun light to about 10%. The rest is lye (NAOH)

We dilute it 50% to use in the wash. Store bought bleach is about 5% strength. as is diluted with water for safety.

Those percentages actually refer to the grams of available oxidizing power expressed as free chlorine thus 12 'trade percent' means that there is enough hyprochlorite in solution to oxidize the same amount of iodide as 12 grams of free chlorine per liter which is 12/35 mol as one mole of chlorine oxidizes one of iodide. But it only takes half a mole of hypochlorite to do that (as it is a more powerful oxidizer than chlorine), here (12/35)/2 mol = 12.76 grams/100 mL which is reasonably close to 12%. This all sort of makes sense because it takes 2 mol of chlorine to make 1 mol of hypochlorite

Cl2 + 2Na(OH) --> NaCl + NaOCl + H2O

All this is done in aqueous solution of course so that the contents of bleach are Na+, Cl-, OCl- and (OH)- with the (OH)- being from unreacted lye left intentionally to keep the pH high thus stabilizing the solution. Thus bleach is hypochlorite and table salt with a bit of lye.

 

[Cidermann]

If you are a professional brewer and you need to be able to show a particular certification, then I know nothing about this.

But pool chemicals go in water that will be ingested at least by accident.

For an example the 50 pound bag of Bicarb that I am using now is NSF Certified to ANSI/NSF 60. Other bags from different manufacturers say on the bags Certified for water Treatment.

I can check other labels as well, but it is the end user that must do this checking for themselves.

My purpose in the post was to suggest a source for Hydrochloric Acid for the poster I replied to.

Mark

 

[ajdelange]

But pool chemicals go in water that will be ingested at least by accident.

For an example the 50 pound bag of Bicarb that I am using now is NSF Certified to ANSI/NSF 60. Other bags from different manufacturers say on the bags Certified for water Treatment.

Chemicals certified to that standard are suitable for use in the treatment of drinking water so clearly you are OK using those.

My purpose in the post was to suggest a source for Hydrochloric Acid for the poster I replied to.

What I am really interested in is the sulfuric acid sold by the home brew supply store. This is of great potential benefit to home brewers. Please supply additional information about this.

 

[Osedax]

This is good info. I will look for that standard at my local pool supply store. I would also like to know about the sulfuric acid. It would actually help a lot of homebrewers to get their hands on some differing acids. Thanks guys.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Cidermann]

I just by a small bottle replacement for doing the total Acid test for wine.

I brew 10 gallon batches, so that is more than enough for me.

Mark

 

[Cidermann]

OOPs, I made a mistake. I said I don't use Sulphuric acid. There is none in the wine test kit. I have to check if I can get h2so4 at our Home Brew store.

 

[ajdelange]

For an acid test you use a base. For a base (alkalinity) test you use acid. The wine acid kits contain sodium hydroxide (lye) solution.

I was afraid it was too good to be true.