Melanoidin Malt as Decoction Substitute?

[JMD87]

I'm looking to do a Munich Helles in the near future and was wondering if anyone has any first hand experience with Melanoidin Malt, and whether it is a "good enough" substitute for a Decoction Mash.

I'm just trying to get the flavor close to the style, not really trying to follow BJCP regulations.


Thanks!

 

[Denny]

Well, assuming that decoction actually does something for flavor, melanoidin malt might get you into that ballpark. But you need to be really careful not to overdo it. Too much melanoidin malt can really screw up a beer. Personally, I wouldn't use it for a helles.

 

[Evan!]

I dunno, Denny...how much we talking about here? I've used melanoidin malt before and it's never screwed up a batch, even on lighter stuff, but then again...I don't typically use a whole lot.

 

[Hokie]

I use .25 lbs in my hefeweizen and I really think it adds a wonderful dimension. It is designed to simulate a decoction, but like others have said, add too much and at 20+L it will really darken your beer considerably (among other things)...unlike a decoction (unless you do your decoctions for hours).

 

[bradsul]

I've found that in a helles a small amount of light munich malt (~5% @ 10L) adds a nice flavour without hitting the colour hard. That's the grain bill I tend to use when I don't want/have the time to do a decoction.

 

[david_42]

I haven't used it instead of a decoction, but it gives a similar maltiness. About 4 ounces would be plenty.

 

[Denny]

I dunno, Denny...how much we talking about here? I've used melanoidin malt before and it's never screwed up a batch, even on lighter stuff, but then again...I don't typically use a whole lot.

I've got an amber recipe that uses .5 lb. and that's about the limit for my tastes.

 

[Evan!]

I've got an amber recipe that uses .5 lb. and that's about the limit for my tastes.

Yeah, that's about right.

 

[Yooper]

I've never used melanoidin malt. How does using it in an American amber, say, compare to using something like aromatic malt? I've been experimenting with aromatic malt to up the maltiness in some beers, and I've been pleased so far.

 

[menschmaschine]

My experience is that a Hochkurz-style step mash with only German pilsener malt and Cara-pils gives plenty of maltiness for a Helles. I'd have trouble distinguishing the step-mashed Helles from my decocted Helles aside from a slightly lighter color in the step-mashed Helles along with a gravity point or 2 more in attenuation.

I'm not saying decoctions aren't worth doing. I'm saying that if you're not doing a decoction, the melanoidin malt is unnesessary IMO (or Munich malt for that matter).

 

[JMD87]

I'd have trouble distinguishing the step-mashed Helles from my decocted Helles

Anyone else agree with this? That would be even better.

 

[Denny]

My experience is that it can be difficult to distinguish a decoction form even a single infusion mash. The results of an experiment I did are here....start on pg. 25...

http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/DennyConn.pdf

 

[derailedgtr]

what negatives should one expect if using more than 1/2 lb of Melanoidin malt in a 5 gal batch? say, for example, a robust porter (I'm thinking of brewing):

4.4 lbs pale liquid extract
3 lbs two-row
1 lb Melanoidin (instead of a crystal malt)
8 oz chocolate
4 oz black patent
1 oz Magnum @ 60 min
1 oz Sterling @ 5 min

any thoughts?

 

[Denny]

what negatives should one expect if using more than 1/2 lb of Melanoidin malt in a 5 gal batch?

IME, it's a weird malty flavor, kinda like you get from stale, oxidized beer.

 

[big supper]

I used a lb in a IPA and it was tasty.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

What's keeping you from pulling a decoction? All you need is a large stock pot and a place to heat it. The stovetop works well. It's a great way to add a bit of color, a bit of maltiness, and achieve a mash out. In my experience, it also slightly increases brewhouse efficiency.

Give Denny's experiment a read. It's worth a few minutes of your time. IMHO, it's also worth trying a decoction yourself, just to do something new and different, and maybe get in touch with "the roots" of traditional brewing.

 

[enderwig]

http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/DennyConn.pdf

Denny, thanks for posting the link to that pdf, I was especially intrigued by the FWH. There has been a lot of disagreement surrounding FWH around here lately, and it's nice to see some experimentation going on!


/threadjack

 

[JMD87]

What's keeping you from pulling a decoction?

Quite honestly, just lazyness. Recently I've been feeling a little worn out after a typical AG brewday. I'll probably just suck it up and do a decoction.... even though it seems there's no general consensus that a decoction will provide the maltiness I'm looking for in a helles.


Also, it seems the experiment is saying it's not worth doing the decoction. Although it would be interesting to see the same experiment but with double decoction vs. single infusion.

 

[Denny]

I did the experiment that way I did not to examine any single decoction technique or beer style, but to get an overview of what the average homebrewer did. I didn't ask anyone to do any specific decoction schedule. It seems like a single decoction with a 30-45 min. boil is what most homebrewers do.

 

[bendavanza]

I'm going to try some of that Melanoidin in my oatmeal stout.