Medieval Ale- Discussion and Experiences

[Babylon]

It's in the fermenter! It's a beautiful dirty, murky, mud-puddle brown. <---the beautiful part is sarcasm! I'm glad someone figured out along the way that boiling was good. Anyway, the yeast is pitched and it's on it's own now. Can't wait to try it. Although, if it smells nasty, I may need some liquid encouragement before the first sip. Regardless, it'll have been a good experiment, something I think we need more of in this community.

looks tasty to me. But then, I kinda like the idea of stuff in suspension, partly because I grew up with an orchard and the fresh cider that has stuff in suspension always tasted way better than when we let it settle out. Formative memories like that can have a lot of effect on someone's tastes.

 

[DevilsCreekBrewing]

looks tasty to me. But then, I kinda like the idea of stuff in suspension, partly because I grew up with an orchard and the fresh cider that has stuff in suspension always tasted way better than when we let it settle out. Formative memories like that can have a lot of effect on someone's tastes.

Looks pretty darn good to me too. I have been reading this thread on and off, but I'm going to try a 2 gallon batch after seeing that pic Babylon.

 

[Pommy]

sorry if somebody already said this but I didnt have time to read the whole thread but I thought yeast wasn't discovered until 1850ish by that Pasteur the Chemist guy? Wouldn't it have been fermented with wild yeast way back then meaning that the boil may have taken away some of the characteristics of the ale, if so the sanitary conditions and S-04 would have? Still an interesting thread that I am looking forward to following, I would be willing to give that a taste :cross:

 

[Babylon]

sorry if somebody already said this but I didnt have time to read the whole thread but I thought yeast wasn't discovered until 1850ish by that Pasteur the Chemist guy? Wouldn't it have been fermented with wild yeast way back then meaning that the boil may have taken away some of the characteristics of the ale, if so the sanitary conditions and S-04 would have? Still an interesting thread that I am looking forward to following, I would be willing to give that a taste :cross:

Depends on how you define wild. They had yeast in their stir sticks, they used the krausen, and they reused yeast cakes. They just didn't know specifically what was causing the ferment.

 

[Pommy]

I just meant that they wouldn't use specialist or controlled yeast would they? Where did the yeast come from originally or does it refine itself over time? I don't know anything about how yeast works really so I am just interested as to how it would have been done back in the old days and what sort of yeasts would have been used. Would it be like the yeast of a lambic?

 

[flyangler18]

Good on ya, King Brian! I need to brew more myself.

 

[DevilsCreekBrewing]

I just meant that they wouldn't use specialist or controlled yeast would they? Where did the yeast come from originally or does it refine itself over time? I don't know anything about how yeast works really so I am just interested as to how it would have been done back in the old days and what sort of yeasts would have been used. Would it be like the yeast of a lambic?

I always figured that many of the 'specialized' yeasts came from the practice of using some krausen and yeast cake, over and over for 10s to 100s of years.
A brewery making multiple batches per week could end up with 100s of generations in just a year, factor in combining krausen and cakes, and this number would be even higher. That is a lot of refining of characteristics in a brewery that has been around since 1400 or so. Once yeast were understood to be biological, I'm sure this refining was done more purposefully as well.

 

[KingBrianI]

Good on ya, King Brian! I need to brew more myself.

I'll let you know in about a week whether not boiling is worth trying or not!

 

[dlloyd]

In regards to the book Ale, Beer and Brewsters mentioned earlier in the thread, I own this book and actually wrote an essay on it back in college. Despite its enticing title, its a terribly dry read with less than a chapter on actual brewing; the rest of the book is simply the publication of collated data from the alesters and other governmental regulatory bodies. Seeing it mentioned made me pick it up again to see if there was any useful information, will report back in a few hours as my wort boils. Lets see if I still have my book scanning skills from being a history major...

If anyone was actually interested in this book I would suggest hitting a local library and reading most of the second chapter, while it does consist mainly of statistics on production and who produced what using what, it does have some interesting tidbits like "From the mash tun was drawn off the wort, to which yeast and herbs were added. Within a day (or less), the ale would be ready for drinking." p. 17

 

[Pommy]

I always figured that many of the 'specialized' yeasts came from the practice of using some krausen and yeast cake, over and over for 10s to 100s of years.
A brewery making multiple batches per week could end up with 100s of generations in just a year, factor in combining krausen and cakes, and this number would be even higher. That is a lot of refining of characteristics in a brewery that has been around since 1400 or so. Once yeast were understood to be biological, I'm sure this refining was done more purposefully as well.

Yeah that would make sense, I suppose its just one of those things that is lost to time. I'm sure along the way obviously they would have found things that worked and kept doing them. This would mean that even though they might not have actually known why things happened they were able to find out what worked and what didn't. Sounds just like some of my brews

 

[KingBrianI]

There is definitely a "tart" aroma coming from the fermenter this morning. It's still fermenting at a good pace.

 

[KingBrianI]

Fermentation is slowing way down so I decided to give it a taste.

Well.... it wasn't horrible. It has a strong sulfurous smell that is severely off-putting. The flavor wasn't bad, but it wasn't really good either. It was still a bit sweet, with a strong yeasty flavor, and just a hint of sourness. The mouthfeel was thick and greasy. You could also taste the oats pretty strongly. It actually tasted like a thin slightly sour, slightly alcoholic gruel. With a rotten egg lying around somewhere in close proximity. I think I'll bottle it tomorrow, and in the mean time, I hope the yeast cleans it up a bit. I can see how if you were used to it, you could drink it fairly easily. But it's different enough from what our modern tastes are used to to become slightly revolting. Maybe it will be better in a couple days when it's very slightly carbed, chilled to cellar temp, and cleaned up a little. Oh, it still looks like a mud puddle.

 

[Pommy]

keep us posted, it sounds... interesting

 

[Reelale]

It actually tasted like a thin slightly sour, slightly alcoholic gruel. With a rotten egg lying around somewhere in close proximity. I think I'll bottle it tomorrow.

I can see this ending up in the memorable quotes thread. Seriously,
I've been following this thread for awhile. Very interested in how this turns out.

 

[KingBrianI]

I can see this ending up in the memorable quotes thread. Seriously,
I've been following this thread for awhile. Very interested in how this turns out.

I'll bring you a bottle on Saturday!

 

[Reelale]

Great....I think

 

[KingBrianI]

Well, I had planned on bottling today, fermentation is still occuring but it's fairly slow. But I gave it a sniff and whew! Still reeks of satan's anus or dead hooker ass or some kind of ass the origin of which is unclear. I'm gonna give it another day to try to clean that hydrogen sulfide up. I figure slightly less-carbed ale that doesn't smell like a fermented fetal duck adrift in a third-world sewer below a town particularly well known for eating some diarrhea-inducing cuisine is better than a well-carbed ale with the aforementioned stench. But maybe that's just me?..

 

[Pommy]

bottle two, just for experiments sake...

 

[KingBrianI]

Please, everyone. For the love of god. Boil your wort!!!

 

[DeathBrewer]

lol, still nasty, eh?

 

[KingBrianI]

OMG. I get sick just thinking about it. We tried some last night and I got two sips down. My buddy only lasted one sip.

 

[Reelale]

Uh, about your offer to bring me a bottle...that's ok, I don't have room for it in my truck

 

[KingBrianI]

Uh, about your offer to bring me a bottle...that's ok, I don't have room for it in my truck

Haha, I'll still bring a bottle and you can do with it what you wish. I'm holding on to the tiniest thread of hope that a little conditioning will do it good. But in all honesty, I think it will only get worse. But hey, if anyone is into "ale" that tastes like well-chewed, half-digested oatmeal in a slightly alcoholic tasting shoe broth. And that smells like an old opossum contracted an intestinal disorder and died in it's own foul excrement in the middle of a swamp. And it was in the 90s with high humidity and it had been a couple days. And when you kick the dead opossum it's melting flesh writhes with the movements of hundreds of maggots. Well then this "ale" might just be your thing.

 

[IXVolt]

Wow!


No wonder the bar wenches of the day looked as they did !

 

[flyangler18]

Sounds like you need to give it another shot, this time with a short boil.

 

[COLObrewer]

Haha, I'll still bring a bottle and you can do with it what you wish. I'm holding on to the tiniest thread of hope that a little conditioning will do it good. But in all honesty, I think it will only get worse. But hey, if anyone is into "ale" that tastes like well-chewed, half-digested oatmeal in a slightly alcoholic tasting shoe broth. And that smells like an old opossum contracted an intestinal disorder and died in it's own foul excrement in the middle of a swamp. And it was in the 90s with high humidity and it had been a couple days. And when you kick the dead opossum it's melting flesh writhes with the movements of hundreds of maggots. Well then this "ale" might just be your thing.

Its just green, LOL, nothing a few years won't remedy. Sounds comparable to my corn stalk beer, 3 years and getting worst.

 

[KingBrianI]

Well, here's an update. Had a bit of a surprise tonight. It started yesterday when I popped open one of the swingtops to make sure the ales weren't overcarbing since I basically just bottled them before they were done fermenting in order to get a little carbonation. Not much air seemed to leak out so I wasn't too worried. The weird part was that once I let the air out I gave it a whiff to see if it had improved at all. Strangely, it had! It actually didn't smell too bad at all. But I figured maybe the small amount of air that escaped wasnt enough to let out much of the stink. I had it in my mind though that maybe it had improved, so tonight, without much hope, I opened the same bottle again. And was immediately met with a rush of beer out of the bottle! Son of a! Good thing I was near a sink. The difference in smell is dramatic though. It still looks like swamp water, but it no longer smells like it. The aroma is now dominated by a strong yeastiness - very much like the smell of rising bread. There was also a bit of an ester character not unlike that common in belgian ales. The flavor is much improved too. It's slightly tart and sweet up front, and finishes with the familiar slightly thick and oily mouthfeel as before. There is also a strong graininess in the finish that is accompanied, surprisingly, by a very slight bitterness. I'm not sure where that is coming from. The mouthfeel, besides being thick and oily, is a bit effervescent from the overcarbonation. I had it at room temp, so maybe if it was chilled slightly it wouldn't have foamed quite so much. Overall, it's not bad at all, but also not something I'd drink outside of an occasional bottle for kicks. I'm not going to feel bad if I don't drink the whole glass and if I pour out the rest of the bottle (especially since there was a big layer of sediment that I'm sure was kicked up during the first pour). But I retract my earlier statement that it should be boiled. It seems as though all it needed was a bit of conditioning. I'll be giving a bottle to a buddy tomorrow to try. We'll see if he likes it better than the first time he tried it (when he only managed one sip!)

 

[DevilsCreekBrewing]

Perhaps oxidizing a bottle to simulate time in a cask?

 

[Pommy]

lets see how it tastes in a month or two

 

[The_Professor]

I brewed up my second attempt of this brew last weekend.

Similar color to KingBrianI's. I did not boil the wort and WAS planning to bottle after one week with no sugar prime. I did cheat and add 1/2 oz East Kent Goldings to the mash.

Mine is a 2.5 gallon batch with 4 lbs Oat Malt, 1 lb Maris Otter, 1 lb wheat malt.

And I've gotta ask. You guys are really getting conversion? Googling the oat malt shows it cannot convert itself. I added amylase enzyme for my second attempt and still had to babysit the mash.