Maximizing Efficiency when Batch Sparging
- Thread starter FlyGuy
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What for?
Nah, I think it's more about avoiding complaints about stuck sparges from too fine of a crush...
The difference between 75% and 85% efficiency in a 1.050 5.5g batch is about a pound of grain....
Assuming you have complete conversion in your mash, that will make no difference. I've tested it dozens of times and get the same efficiency and beer quality even with no rest after adding sparge water.
ExperimentalMental
Member
JJack, I agree with you on the waiting time for sparging. I add my sparge water, mix well, allow to settle for 5-10min, then mix and allow to settle again. No real science behind it, just what I do. I get my grain from Williams Brewing and their crush is not too course, fairly fine, I think. It is also in 1 lb packs, if I need to change a recipient on the fly, I'm good. No wasted grain.
Tested dozens of times and found to be unnecessary.
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Correct. All you need to do is stir the sparge enough to get a uniform concentration of sugar in all the liquid throughout the mash. After that, any additional time or stirring does nothing to increase lauter efficiency. Note, that you are not dissolving any sugar with the stirring, as all of the sugar is in solution when it is created. There is never any solid sugar in a mash.
Brew on
ExperimentalMental
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I look at it as just my process, a process that has worked for 8 years or so. I understand it is not needed, but...why fix what ain't broken. I think it all comes down to one thing, being happy with ones end result. Besides, it allows me few minutes to perform other brewing tasks which may be going on. I have been known to brew two different brews on the same day, which equates to a lot of work. Regardless, you guys are correct, However, it is not detrimental to the end product.
Nope, not detrimental at all. I just have a dislike of needless effort, but whatever works for you is the right way to do it!
davisc1513
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So what is the best way for a beginner? Fly sparge or batch sparge?
I'd recommend batch sparge for a beginner. There are fewer ways to mess up a batch sparge vs. a fly sparge, and equipment configuration has less effect on the outcome. Once you have batch sparging down, feel free to experiment with fly sparging, and then use whichever you like better for whatever reasons.
Brew on
BIAB with no sparge is easiest for a beginner.
BIAB with batch sparge is only slightly more difficult and requires a second vessel. Gives better efficiency.
Out of the 2 options you mention I have no experience, but batch sparging is the simpler process.
IMO, batch sparge is best for everyone from beginner to super advanced. I've brewed over 500 batches, so I'm no beginner. I've always batch sparged and never found any reason not to.
davisc1513
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Good to know. I've been having major efficiency issues trying to fly sparge because i didn't think there was a different but ill change that next brew
It's entirely possible that your efficiency will increase with batch sparging if the problem is a poor lauter design. But the biggest factor in efficiency os crush. Work with that if you haven't already.
davisc1513
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I will I've been reading and the popular choice seems to be .26-.30?
I have no idea what my mill gap is. I'm making grist, not gaps! I adjust til the crush looks right. And it's dependent on your own system. Unless you use exactly the same equipment as someone else, the gap that works for them may not work for you.
^^^This^^^
I will add to it though. Not only the same equipment, but the same settings, the same water profile, the same malts, etc. We can all use the same malts, water and equipment, but we will *never* achieve the same results. That is unless we are using the same facilities.
LordRogan
Member
How much sparge water should be used and why? Things must have to be accurately calculated to not effect the FG? Either less water used in the mash to compensate or less for the sparge? Not yet done my first All Grain and want to be sure on everything. Thanks in advance!
Easiest way, that gives good results, is to use 60% of your total water for strike/mashing, and then the other 40% for a single batch sparge. The more formal calculations are not difficult, but are more than you need to worry about for your first AG batch. And, it's not FG you are worried about, but rather hitting OG. Sparge method should have minimal effect on FG.
Brew on
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After 500+ batch sparges, I've found that it's easier than people make it out to be. Mash with whatever ratio works for you...I typically use 1.65-1.75 qt./lb. After you run off the mash, measure how much you have in the kettle. subtract that from the amount you want to boil. The answer you get is how much sparge water to use.
LordRogan
Member
Thanks both. Makes sense to me. I imagine the sparge will differ depending on what type of mash is done also. Thick vs thin etc.
The imagery of simply measuring the runoff and sparging appropriate amounts for topping up whatever is still needed is crystal clear. Thanks.
I've only done approx 5 Extract brews and already want to do this for a job. LOVE IT!
Steveruch
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I switched to batch sparging, per your recommendation, several batches ago and even without much fiddling around with the technique get the same O G as I did with fly sparging in way less time.
cnotts
Member
Big thankyou to everyone involved for all the sage advice in this thread.
About 10 brews into my all-grain career I was scratching my head as so why my brewhouse efficiency was only about 60% and i couldnt seem to get it higher.
Crush of the grain is mentioned here as the usual source of the problem but it turns out not for me. To summarise what really helped me narrow down the source of my efficiency problem heres what I did;
- Measure your OG at every single stage of the process. Measuring first runnings efficiency meant i could eliminate my grain crush as the problem - it was ~99%!
- Make sure your measuring gear is properly calibrated. Turns out my thermo was overestimating my mash temp, which was THE main cause of my efficiency loss. Mashing at 67C instead of 62/63C probably added 10 points to my efficiency
- Understand your equipment. I have 2 kettles, one wide and squat, one tall and thin and was using the wide one for boiling which gave me a massive boil-off rate (over 20% in an hour). This was somewhat masking my pre-boil inefficiency due to concentrating the wort a lot and I wasnt picking it up because I wasnt measuring pre-boil OG. I have swapped the kettles I use for HLT/boiling over now.
End result - preboil efficiency of 80% & brewhouse efficiency of ~75% which I am happy with - dont see any need to ever try fly sparging now!
c
About 10 brews into my all-grain career I was scratching my head as so why my brewhouse efficiency was only about 60% and i couldnt seem to get it higher.
Crush of the grain is mentioned here as the usual source of the problem but it turns out not for me. To summarise what really helped me narrow down the source of my efficiency problem heres what I did;
- Measure your OG at every single stage of the process. Measuring first runnings efficiency meant i could eliminate my grain crush as the problem - it was ~99%!
- Make sure your measuring gear is properly calibrated. Turns out my thermo was overestimating my mash temp, which was THE main cause of my efficiency loss. Mashing at 67C instead of 62/63C probably added 10 points to my efficiency
- Understand your equipment. I have 2 kettles, one wide and squat, one tall and thin and was using the wide one for boiling which gave me a massive boil-off rate (over 20% in an hour). This was somewhat masking my pre-boil inefficiency due to concentrating the wort a lot and I wasnt picking it up because I wasnt measuring pre-boil OG. I have swapped the kettles I use for HLT/boiling over now.
End result - preboil efficiency of 80% & brewhouse efficiency of ~75% which I am happy with - dont see any need to ever try fly sparging now!
c
Abrayton
Well-Known Member
Wow! Finally made it through all 45 pages of this thread! Some great stuff. Now I'm not going to be able to sleep until I get a chance to brew my next batch and try out all of the efficiency boosting tips.
I do have one question that I don't recall seeing an answer to. I believe it was suggested to try and get as close to equal (within 1 gallon) mash and sparge volume in the kettle. At 1.6+ qt./lb. that doesn't seem to work out on beersmith and I have to mash thicker (1.5qt.) to get to within that 1 gallon difference. Am I understanding this wrong?
Usually adjusting strike vs. sparge volumes to get equal runnings volumes results in thinner than "traditional" mash thicknesses. Can you post some of your volume calculations so we can understand why you are ending up on the thicker side?
Brew on
Abrayton
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the quick reply. Here is my recipe info:
5.5 gallon batch, 15lb grain, 90min mash, 90min boil, est. boil off 1g per hour.
5.81g mash water (4.01g runoff estimated by subtracting sparge vol. from post mash vol.) .80 gallon difference
3.21g sparge water
7.22g post mash volume
1.55qt./lb. water/grist
If I put more water into the mash, the sparge volume will go down.
I do have other issues that I understand are more important such as crush, calibrating my thermometer and more thorough stirring of mash and sparge to name a few. I'm just trying to understand water/grist ratio in relation ship to equal mash/sparge volume.
5.5 gallon batch, 15lb grain, 90min mash, 90min boil, est. boil off 1g per hour.
5.81g mash water (4.01g runoff estimated by subtracting sparge vol. from post mash vol.) .80 gallon difference
3.21g sparge water
7.22g post mash volume
1.55qt./lb. water/grist
If I put more water into the mash, the sparge volume will go down.
I do have other issues that I understand are more important such as crush, calibrating my thermometer and more thorough stirring of mash and sparge to name a few. I'm just trying to understand water/grist ratio in relation ship to equal mash/sparge volume.
If I put those batch numbers into Brew 365's Sparge calculator, I get very different volumes.*
With .5 gallons of trub loss, .1 gallon equipment loss, 1.5 qt/lb thickness, 8% boil-off, the mash (strike) water is 5.63 gallons, sparge is 3.53 gallons. Based on that, I then split the sparge into 2 equal volumes, 1.75 gallons each. That's roughly what I'd use. If you want your mash a little more liquid, go for it. It will reduce your sparge water by an equal amount, so the difference will be twice that. As long as you (batch) sparge at least once it's gonna be fine. I prefer 2 sparges.
On the other hand, I don't think equal mash and sparge volumes is all that critical. Some people mash full volume and don't even sparge at all, or drizzle a few quarts of water over their BIAB bag...
and still claim high efficiency (~90%).You should address your crush, stirring, and temp reading though. A CDN thermometer is only $15-17, is accurate and reacts fairly fast. The glass thermometers are too slow and useless. The bi-metal dial ones are slow and tend to be inaccurate.
* Mind you, I noticed that when certain fields are left blank or set to 0 the calculator doesn't seem to calculate correctly. So make sure there are no "red" outlined fields.
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Please note:
I've made some extensive corrections in my post above. The Brew365 calculator gets wonky when certain fields are left blank (they get outlined in red) or are set to 0 (no warning).
I still find it the easiest, most straightforward calculator to use for calculating mash, sparge, and boil volumes. Use "sensible" numbers!
I've made some extensive corrections in my post above. The Brew365 calculator gets wonky when certain fields are left blank (they get outlined in red) or are set to 0 (no warning).
I still find it the easiest, most straightforward calculator to use for calculating mash, sparge, and boil volumes. Use "sensible" numbers!
Abrayton
Well-Known Member
I had trub loss set to zero but with 2 batches under my belt I'm pretty confident setting it to .25 which does change my strike/sparge volumes a bit. Another concern is that I have my efficiency set at 65% based on past result and this being a "big" beer. If the efficiency troubleshooting adjustments I make end up taking me up to 75% range, I'm looking at a huge 1.091 OG and pushing 11.5% ABV! I guess I could adjust my expected efficiency under the assumption my adjustments WILL increase my efficiency.
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