mashout with boiling water -no tannins?

[Pratzie]

So why would u want to fly sparge then? If its that simple? Less equipment. Less time. Very little difference in efficiency... Am I missing something else or is it just that simple?

 

[worthogg]

Has anyone mentioned yet that mashout makes the grainbed more fluid, and therefore easier to lauter? Could be one reason to do it depending on your grain bill and wether or not you use rice hulls, etc.

 

[Yooper]

So why would u want to fly sparge then? If its that simple? Less equipment. Less time. Very little difference in efficiency... Am I missing something else or is it just that simple?

Yes, it's just that simple.

I go back and forth- sometimes continuous sparge, sometimes batch sparge. My system is ideal for continuous sparging as I have a big bottom draining MLT and a HERMS. Even so, sometimes I batch sparge because it's quicker. I still get 75% efficiency no matter which way I sparge.

One of the things we haven't mentioned is that batch sparging "works" by the principle of "rinsing"- like a washing machine. The soapy water washes the clothes, drains, then the clean water is added and sloshed around and drained. That's almost exactly how batch sparging works.

Fly (continous) sparging works via the principle of diffusion. That is, as water (with no sugar in it) is added to the top, as it slowly flows through the grainbed the sugar is "pulled" into the lower gravity water via diffusion. That's why slow rinsing is important, as well as adding the water gently to the top to avoid channeling. If you have channeling, the water will follow the path of least resistance through that channel, and not pick up the sugars throughout the grainbed. That's why a false bottom, with even holes spaced, and a round MLT is important for that method.

I hope I explained that better, but if not let me know!

 

[Denny]

So why would u want to fly sparge then? If its that simple? Less equipment. Less time. Very little difference in efficiency... Am I missing something else or is it just that simple?

It's just that simple. After trying fly sparging, I've batch sparged the last 438 batches. I've won awards, get great efficiency and make delicious beer. IMO, I don't know why anyone would fly sparge, but it's just another tool in the toolbox. Whatever method you prefer is the one you should use.

 

[Denny]

Has anyone mentioned yet that mashout makes the grainbed more fluid, and therefore easier to lauter? Could be one reason to do it depending on your grain bill and wether or not you use rice hulls, etc.

Actually it doesn't really matter much. I've tried sparging with water as low as 100F and as long as you have close to 100% conversion efficiency it has no impact on overall efficiency.

 

[Denny]

Yes, it's just that simple.

I go back and forth- sometimes continuous sparge, sometimes batch sparge. My system is ideal for continuous sparging as I have a big bottom draining MLT and a HERMS. Even so, sometimes I batch sparge because it's quicker. I still get 75% efficiency no matter which way I sparge.

One of the things we haven't mentioned is that batch sparging "works" by the principle of "rinsing"- like a washing machine. The soapy water washes the clothes, drains, then the clean water is added and sloshed around and drained. That's almost exactly how batch sparging works.

Fly (continous) sparging works via the principle of diffusion. That is, as water (with no sugar in it) is added to the top, as it slowly flows through the grainbed the sugar is "pulled" into the lower gravity water via diffusion. That's why slow rinsing is important, as well as adding the water gently to the top to avoid channeling. If you have channeling, the water will follow the path of least resistance through that channel, and not pick up the sugars throughout the grainbed. That's why a false bottom, with even holes spaced, and a round MLT is important for that method.

I hope I explained that better, but if not let me know!

Yooper, I beg to differ. Fly sparging works by rinsing. Batch sparging works by draining. But I see what you were getting at.

 

[Pratzie]

Thanks for the info, i really appreciate the feedback. I just didn't think it would be THAT easy.

Denny, one last question. When you drain the first runnings and then add the water, how long do you wait to drain after you stir it all up. Do you let it sit a bit or is it better to start the vourlauf as soon as possible?

 

[worthogg]

Actually it doesn't really matter much. I've tried sparging with water as low as 100F and as long as you have close to 100% conversion efficiency it has no impact on overall efficiency.

I was not so much referring to efficiency as ease of lautering. For those that do fly sparge I understand that stuck sparge is a concern. I was just pointing out that raising the grain to mashout temps supposedly makes the grainbed more fluid. I haven't experimented with fly sparging at as low as 100F so I can't say what that would do? But assuming that stuck sparge wasn't a concern, could you fly sparge with 100F water and still recover the same sugars?

 

[Denny]

Thanks for the info, i really appreciate the feedback. I just didn't think it would be THAT easy.

Denny, one last question. When you drain the first runnings and then add the water, how long do you wait to drain after you stir it all up. Do you let it sit a bit or is it better to start the vourlauf as soon as possible?

I don't let it sit at all. Just stir it in, vorlauf, and run off. I used to let it sit 10 min. or so, and I've experimented with letting it sit anywhere from zero to 30 min. There was no difference in any of those times, so now I just stir it in and go.

BTW, I've taught many people to batch sparge. After the mash, every single one has said "that's all there is to it?".

 

[Yooper]

I don't let it sit at all. Just stir it in, vorlauf, and run off. I used to let it sit 10 min. or so, and I've experimented with letting it sit anywhere from zero to 30 min. There was no difference in any of those times, so now I just stir it in and go.

BTW, I've taught many people to batch sparge. After the mash, every single one has said "that's all there is to it?".

That's been my experience too. If I'm batch sparging to save time, doing two additions, stirring, resting, and vorlaufing would take up just as much time as a continuous sparge. I did that a few times, but then went with Denny's advice and didn't wait at all. I think the key is thorough stirring- stir it very very well, and then vorlauf and drain.

I just finished brewing a batch and I used continuous sparging this time instead of batch sparging- like I said, I go back and forth.

The reason today was just that my pumps were set up for my HERMS and it was just simpler to ramp up the temperature and continuous sparge. If I were to batch sparge, I would have been moving hoses around and vorlaufing, and moving hoses around again. Instead, I just did a continuous sparge with everything in place while I weighed out my hops. It really depends on the system, as I don't see an advantage to either method as far as efficiency. Also, the final beer seems to be exactly the same, so there isn't any advantage their either as far as I can tell.