I've read the wiki and How to Brew on mash temp, but am not totally clear. A lower temp, longer boiler gives higher conversion, and thus a cleaner beer? What's the advantage to a hot boil, then? Can somebody talk me through pros and cons?
Mash Temp
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I'm assuming the question was meant to be advantages of a hot mash, not boil, correct?
A higher temp mash (around 156-158) will give you a less fermentable and more dextrinous wort. That will lead to a higher FG and more body and sweetness in the finished beer. This is good for styles of beer that you want to have more body, like an oatmeal stout.
A lower mash temp will give you a more fermentable wort and a dryer and thinner final product. This is good for something like an IPA that you want to be dry and crisp.
Does that answer the question?
A higher temp mash (around 156-158) will give you a less fermentable and more dextrinous wort. That will lead to a higher FG and more body and sweetness in the finished beer. This is good for styles of beer that you want to have more body, like an oatmeal stout.
A lower mash temp will give you a more fermentable wort and a dryer and thinner final product. This is good for something like an IPA that you want to be dry and crisp.
Does that answer the question?
BowAholic
Well-Known Member
yes
Yes. Mashing is adding hot water at a particular temperature to milled malted grain to extract sugars out of them. After you've drained all the sweet wort out of the mash and run more hot water over the grains (sparging), you then boil the wort with hops. Clear?
Another site you might read through is @Denny 's quick and easy guide to all-grain brewing using batch sparging. Its what I followed on my first all-grain and, honestly, its pretty much the same technique I use now. http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
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To answer the question in your OP, though:
Lower mash temperature leads to a more fermentable wort, meaning the yeast will eat up more of the sugars and you will end up with a drier beer. Higher mash temperature leads to a wort with more non-fermentables in it, meaning the yeast will leave more of the sugars and you will end up with a sweeter beer. There's a lot of detail behind that, but that's the summary. The range for mash temps is generally 148F to 158F.
Lower mash temperature leads to a more fermentable wort, meaning the yeast will eat up more of the sugars and you will end up with a drier beer. Higher mash temperature leads to a wort with more non-fermentables in it, meaning the yeast will leave more of the sugars and you will end up with a sweeter beer. There's a lot of detail behind that, but that's the summary. The range for mash temps is generally 148F to 158F.
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BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
[EDIT] Bah - I'm too slow for these forums!
I'll leave in the piece that might matter in the conversation:
Mash (steeping) temperature really only has a big impact if that is where most of the sugar in your batch is coming from. If you're doing an extract batch that has steeping grains, then the temperature won't matter as much.
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3
I know you said you have read the section on mash temp, but I would go back and read the entire section on all grain brewing. The mash is the process of breaking down the starches in the grain into more simple sugars that can be fermented. John Palmer does a better job than I ever could of making the process very easy to understand.
The boil is conducted after the mash and sparge.
I know you said you have read the section on mash temp, but I would go back and read the entire section on all grain brewing. The mash is the process of breaking down the starches in the grain into more simple sugars that can be fermented. John Palmer does a better job than I ever could of making the process very easy to understand.
The boil is conducted after the mash and sparge.
FWIW, I just brewed my 495th batch using the same techniques and equipment.
BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
Mainer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, so far I've only done extract with specialty grains, so the mash temp doesn't really matter so much. (I mean, I guess I'm not technically mashing at all, just steeping.) I'd like to get to AG eventually, but there's kind of a ramp-up in equipment cost.
OP
OP
Mainer
Well-Known Member
I think you're safe to graduate from the beginner boards.
Charlie does as well.
No argument there, but Palmer's is available for free online. I have enjoyed reading both multiple times.
No argument there, but Palmer's is available for free online. I have enjoyed reading both multiple times.
What's available from Palmer online is the first edition. He's about to release the 4th. There are a lot of corrections and additions in between.
I think you're safe to graduate from the beginner boards.
My point, though, is that as simple as my system is for a beginner, it's robust enough that you never have to switch to anything else.
I was just trying to provide the best explanation possible without requiring any purchase. I own the updated version, but for a beginner who might not want to go out and buy the book yet it is still a great tool. Even if updates have been made.
Hey folks, I'd like to add a quick note on the original topic here. I'd like to make a claim and ask if you all agree.
Earlier in the thread, several mentioned that a higher mash temp increases unfermentable sugars, notably dextrins. True. But, dextrins are not sweet! So a higher mash temp does not mean a sweeter beer... it just means a fuller-bodied beer. Incomplete fermentation would still leave sweet sugars behind, but that's not related to mash temp.
Furthermore, sugars from highly caramelized malts, like C120, Special B, etc, also do not fully ferment but do indeed add sweetness. But this sweetness is not a function of mash temp, but rather ingredient selection (aside: this is another reason C120 + C40 does not equal C80).
So, sweetness comes from incomplete fermentation and highly caramelized malt sugars, not mash temp. Body comes from mash temp.
Agreed?
Palmer, on my side: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/experiment/increasing-the-body
Thanks!
Earlier in the thread, several mentioned that a higher mash temp increases unfermentable sugars, notably dextrins. True. But, dextrins are not sweet! So a higher mash temp does not mean a sweeter beer... it just means a fuller-bodied beer. Incomplete fermentation would still leave sweet sugars behind, but that's not related to mash temp.
Furthermore, sugars from highly caramelized malts, like C120, Special B, etc, also do not fully ferment but do indeed add sweetness. But this sweetness is not a function of mash temp, but rather ingredient selection (aside: this is another reason C120 + C40 does not equal C80).
So, sweetness comes from incomplete fermentation and highly caramelized malt sugars, not mash temp. Body comes from mash temp.
Agreed?
Palmer, on my side: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/experiment/increasing-the-body
Thanks!
No, because we perceive multiple kinds of 'sweet'. Malt 'sweetness' is not the same as fruit 'sweetness' for example. Many people perceive a 'sweetness' from pilsner malt, even in very well attenuated beers. Also, 'sweet' is often used as a juxtopostion to 'dry' - another use of the word.
I agree that some sugars, like lactose, are not 'sweet' - and yet we call them sweet stouts.
Understood, but being a beginner is one of the best reasons to buy the book!
Agreed. Another thing to keep in mind is that modern malts are so high in diastatic power that mash temp makes a lot less difference than it used to.
Fair enough. Those are good points. (I especially like your sweet stout example.)
I don't disagree with you, but I guess I just have a beef with using "sweet" to describe body. Some beers are actually sweet, in the sense that tongue is picking up one of the basic flavors our palates know: sweetness. These beers are sweet because of incomplete fermentation or caramelized sugars (or possible later additions of adjuncts), not because of mash temperature.
So, we can agree the word "sweet" is nuanced for brewers. I love nuance! But, this thread was started by a new brewer, and to outsiders "sweet" means sweet. In the interest of teaching newcomers, I prefer to describe the effect of higher mash temps as full body, not sweetness, to avoid confusion. But I take your point.
Cheers!
OP
OP
Mainer
Well-Known Member
As far as the equipment for all grain, I've heard it's harder do a partial boil with all grain. Is that true? I have a 5-gallon kettle, so with my extract brews, I do a 3-3.5 gallon boil and top up to 5.
My point, though, is that as simple as my system is for a beginner, it's robust enough that you never have to switch to anything else.
Also, I've heard that a wort chiller is helpful for all grain, but not strictly necessary. Is that also true?
I can't imagine why it would be harder to do a partial boil. That's what I did when I started all grain. Your efficiency will suffer since you won't be able to use enough sparge water to get all the sugar from the mash, but other than that no big deal. I consider a wort chiller essential of you do a full boil. If you're going to continue to do partial boils, you don't need to change anything from what you're already doing.
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This is an interesting point. I'm only 10 batches in, but in my experience so far, it seems this business about mash temperature and its effect on "body" is more academic than anything, especially for a beginner who is just trying to get their first few batches made. I've made light-bodied blondes mashed high and creamy stouts mashed low and somehow they still managed to be entirely satisfactory in "body" as compared to what I wanted.
Never mind the fact that most beginners are probably using a crappy thermometer that isn't even measuring the mash temperature accurately anyway...
To beginners like OP, I'd say just target about 153F +/- 3 degrees for the mash and you really can't go wrong.
Pretty much so. I made the same beer with both a 153 and 168 mash temp. Same OG, same FG. American malts are especially like this, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It simply is what it is and you learn to deal with it.
OP
OP
Mainer
Well-Known Member
Interesting... I've been planning to brew a light NEIPA this spring. It might be a good brew to try as my first all-grain batch, since it's mostly 2-row with a little pilsner, flaked wheat, and flaked oats thrown in.
