Mash PH

[jimsal27]

Hi guys I have a question regarding Mash PH. Ive been all grain brewing for a year and a half. I haven't bothered with ph but Ive noticed an astringency type off flavor in my beer and I belive it my be caused by my PH. I have a PH meter and I checked my mash for a porter I made a few days ago. The PH meter at mash temp read 5.57. I took a room temp reading it read 5.83. That's High for a dark beer I believe. I use distilled water and I will list the water adjustment I used:
4grams Baking soda
9g CaCO
5g CaCl
2g gypsum
2g Epsom

My recipe was
10 lb Vienna
2 lb munich
1 lb caramunich 3
4 oz special b

1lb chocolate wheat steeped separate and added to kettle (not enough room in mash tun)
Are my water adjustments enough or am I not taking chemistry into account with my additions? any thought would be appreciated

 

[jimsal27]

one last thing my ph meter is only accurate up to 122 degrees

 

[flars]

Do you use software like Bru'n Water to calculate your additions? What is the pH of your sparge water? Astringency can be caused by the sparge water pH being too high.

 

[jimsal27]

I never used Bru'n water before. Just found out about it yesterday. will try it next time. I never added anything to my sparge water. I added all adjustments to mash water So I was sparging with straight distilled water. Sounds like that could be a problem

 

[Yooper]

No, sparging with distilled water is ideal- so that's perfect.

The issue is with the mash additions. Adding baking soda raises the pH, and that is what happened here. You should never add baking soda or other alkalinity unless you desire to raise the mash pH.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The 4 grams of baking soda addition was a mistake if your mash pH was 5.83. Baking soda raises pH. The next time you make this recipe leave it out. You also don't need the Epsom Salt. And if by CaCO you meant calcium carbonate, since it is not very soluble in water, it should be abandoned also.

 

[jimsal27]

So even though I'm using distilled water I should not worry about adding in magnesium. Basically I should just add some gypsum fir calcium and let the rest go?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

There is sufficient abundance of magnesium present within barley malt itself. That plus magnesium brings generally no beneficial flavor benefit to beer, but can at some additive level (best avoided) bring with it a negative flavor impact. You can never have too little of it due to its inherent presence within malts. You can have too much of it if you add in more.

The primary additive minerals of benefit are calcium chloride and calcium sulfate (gypsum). Chloride for malt forward and mouthfeel benefits, and sulfate for hops forward and bitter dryness benefits (both as the style to be brewed requires). As to the flavor impacts of chloride and sulfate ions, they do not cancel each other out like some continue to believe.

 

[jimsal27]

so with my PH levels what can I expect from the beer? still good?

 

[h22lude]

I didn't see anyone say this but you shouldn't take a reading at mash temp. Always chill to room temp.

At 5.8 your beer will still be beer. Higher than that and you can start extracting tannins and your efficiency will decrease.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

so with my PH levels what can I expect from the beer? still good?

There are many facets of the brewing process that must come together for a beer to be good, and mash pH is but one of them. Due to so many variables in addition to mash pH I can't say for sure how your beer will turn out, but I can tell you that to this day a Czech Pilsner that I made more than 20 years ago stands out as my best ever for that style, and only now (since I've written my own mash pH assistant spreadsheet, see link) can I look back at my old recipe notes and a recent water report I've received for the specific commercial artesian spring water I used way back then and compute that its mash pH must have been somewhere around 5.86.

 

[jimsal27]

funny you mention tsking reading at room temp. I was just gonna ask that

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

funny you mention tsking reading at room temp. I was just gonna ask that

pH readings taken at mash temperature will be about 0.35 points low. Knowing that you can compensate by adding 0.35 to the meters output, but it is also very rough on the meters probe element to take mash temperature pH readings, and its lifetime will be reduced.

Update If your pH meter has automatic temperature control the mash vs. room temperature deviation as mentioned above will likely be on the order of 0.25 instead of 0.35.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

There is a check box that will only add salts to the mash in BNW

I never used Bru'n water before. Just found out about it yesterday. will try it next time. I never added anything to my sparge water. I added all adjustments to mash water So I was sparging with straight distilled water. Sounds like that could be a problem