Mash Ph and Temp acceptable, still astringent

[ParanoidAndroid]

I honestly have no idea whats going on. I haven't made a quality all grain brew ever (been over a year). I do/have the following:

-Use 100% RO water and use EZ water (so not a water problem)
-Use Ph meter and calibrate every time (so not a mash ph problem)
-Use Thermapen, which is the most accurate therm you can buy (so not a mash temp prob)
-Run through mill twice (getting 70-75% eff)
-Dedicated ferm chamber with thermowell that sits in wort (so not a ferm temp problem)
-Make starters and use software to calc how many cells are needed (so not an underpitching problem)

I've racked my brain through everything and cant figure out what it is. My last batch hit a mash Ph of 5.3. Since going BIAB it seems like all Ph get around that without any acid. I use my Thermapen to start mashing, then use the on-vesel therm to watch for heat loss. My recipe for the Oatmeal Stout is below. The only thing that is off is my hydrometer was off a little, so instead of 76% efficiency, it should be maybe 72%.

My mash temp and mash ph were on. From what I read this is the only thing that can cause astringency. The mashing of the bag is a myth, or as I'm told. Any ideas? I'm frustrated as hell.

Another thing I do is cool to 90-100 degrees, then set in chamber to cool to 64 degrees. Pitching was done 36 hours after.

Maris Otter Pale (UK) 9.0 lb 75 % Mash 38 3 °L
Crystal 60L (UK) 12.0 oz 6 % Mash 34 60 °L
Chocolate (US) 10.0 oz 5 % Mash 29 350 °L
Roasted Barley (UK) 6.0 oz 3 % Mash 29 550 °L
Flaked Oats 1.25 lb 10 % Boil 33 2 °L

Hops
Hop Amount Time Use Form AA
East Kent Golding (UK) 1.25 oz 60 min Boil Pellet 5.6%
East Kent Golding (UK) 0.5 oz 30 min Boil Pellet 5.6%
East Kent Golding (UK) 0.5 oz 15 min Boil Pellet 5.6%

Yeasts
Name Lab/Product Attenuation
Irish Ale Wyeast 1084 73.0%

Predicted Stats

Batch Size
5.5 gal
Boil Time
60 min
Efficiency
76.0%

1.061 OG
1.016 FG
32 IBU
5.8% ABV
33 SRM
0.53 IBU/OG

Notes on Brew:
-8 gallons of water for mash
-Brew in a Bag
-5 grams gypsum
-5 grams CaCl2
-Hit mash pH of 5.3 at 15 minutes and 70 deg F
-Mashed at 153-154 for 60 minutes -Gravity of 1.046 @ 80 degrees.Adjusted for temp = 1.047 @ 68 deg F
-76% efficiency after squeezing a second time
-Water machine serviced on oct 9, 2014. Brewed Oct 19, 2014 -OG of 1.061

 

[duboman]

http://www.beerjudgeschool.com/uploads/Beer_Characteristics_Flash_Cards.pdf

Are you sure its's astringency?

Perhaps it's your crush? Just because you mill twice and get 75% efficiency doesn't necessarily mean you have a good crush, check out the above link for some suggestions as well as other things that what you're experiencing might be.

 

[wardens355]

http://www.beerjudgeschool.com/uploads/Beer_Characteristics_Flash_Cards.pdf

Are you sure its's astringency?

Perhaps it's your crush? Just because you mill twice and get 75% efficiency doesn't necessarily mean you have a good crush, check out the above link for some suggestions as well as other things that what you're experiencing might be.

Nifty pdf.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Its astringent, fruity, hot, sour....just all around garbage. I've went over that list several times before and can't nail down the most prominent.

The crush is whatever the lhbs uses.Its a very active store. No one's complained as far as I know. All the guys who work there use it.

 

[CB_in_Tokyo]

Another thing I do is cool to 90-100 degrees, then set in chamber to cool to 64 degrees. Pitching was done 36 hours after.

36 hours is a long head start for the foreign beasties that will be in your wort.

This is a wild guess, but a lot of contamination comes from the grain husks themselves.

http://www.buhlergroup.com/europe/en/about-buehler/news/details-6111.htm?title=

If you only have this issue all grain, and extracts are fine perhaps you letting grain dust settle around your brew area and missing something sanitation-wise.

edit: I am not recommending that product, just using it as a source regarding contaminants in grain husks.

 

[duboman]

Its astringent, fruity, hot, sour....just all around garbage. I've went over that list several times before and can't nail down the most prominent.

The crush is whatever the lhbs uses.Its a very active store. No one's complained as far as I know. All the guys who work there use it.

Well that's quite a list of issues.....

1. Astringent is usually a result of tannins
2. Fruity can be associated with poor yeast health or improper fermentation temps
3. Hot usually correlates to fusel alcohols also related poor yeast management and improper fermentation
4. Sour is most likely an infection of some sort

Based on your OP you seemed to be really confident in all your processes from starters and yeast to controlling fermentation temps and sanitizing but from this last description of the beer it seems not.......

The PDF I referenced should help you diagnose and look at each of your processes to narrow things down.

 

[Marquez]

Two things stick out for me.

Minute grain husks or contamination.

Can you recirc to get clear wort? And bring it down to pitching the same day with a prechiller?

Do another batch, same recipe of course, and bring your clear wort down to pitching temp. Pitch immediately and ferment as usual.

Let us know the results!

 

[craigmw]

Did you mash out, and if so, at what temp? Astringency is associated with temps above 170F with the grain though your mash pH looked okay (it's also associated with high pH). I also agree that the long wait before pitching could also be an issue. This is just an invitation for wild bugs to get going on your sweet wort. That being said, our down under friends often do no-chill with few issues, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

 

[bigdongsr94]

I didn't see if you are electric. My scorched grains from a hwd electric heater would give me bad astringency that didn't seem like burnt.


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