Margarita Gose

[TravelingLight]

As for the Sangria beer, I bought a 1/2 gal of World Vineyards grape must from my LHBS (cost ~$27). One of these would be diluted to a gal with water and then fermented into wine. Never used one of these honestly, but have heard of many brewers using wine grapes or must later in primary fermentation. That's really all I got for this exbeeriment. Just gotta see how it turns out!
Hoping for a bit of grapey-berry flavor from the juice to compliment the blackberries and peaches. But the juice will also kick up the yeast cuz of its high gravity. The tartnesss will hopefully boost the vinous flavors. Should bump the beer from ~7% to about 9% or more. Even diluted to a gal the OG of the must is about 1.080?

That sounds awesome. Keep me posted. I've been wanting to design something like this since I had Avery's sangria beer last month in Boulder. It'll likely be the next one after the rose sour I'm brewing labor day. Thanks.

FWIW, I agree with you. I would add it later in fermentation so hopefully carry some flavor through to the back end.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Update on the various kettle soured beers. Brewday went well, hit an SG of 1.052 and kettle soured for 5 days. Used Chobani plain non-fat yogurt and also a vial of L. delbrueckii as back up (ended up pitching it in). The yogurt has a mix of Lacto cultures - casei, bulgaricus, bifidus, & acidophilus.

Even after all that time, the pH only dropped to 3.45. Split up wort, boiled off and added some Pilsen DME to bump it up.

As of now, I have two carboys of gose (OG 1.068) and 1 carboy of essentially Berliner Weiss (OG 1.062 - what would've become the Sangria beer).
Made a judgement call and added the 1/2 gal pinot noir must/ juice (~SG 1.192 - literally off the chart of the hydrometer...) to one of the gose batches. Boosted the SG from 1.013 to 1.035. The beer was already 7.2% so we will see where it goes!

Decided to abandon the Watermelon Margarita idea and decided on a kiwi Berliner Weiss instead. Just processed and froze 6lbs of kiwi and will add in the next day or so.

 

[TravelingLight]

Update on the various kettle soured beers. Brewday went well, hit an SG of 1.052 and kettle soured for 5 days. Used Chobani plain non-fat yogurt and also a vial of L. delbrueckii as back up (ended up pitching it in). The yogurt has a mix of Lacto cultures - casei, bulgaricus, bifidus, & acidophilus.

Even after all that time, the pH only dropped to 3.45. Split up wort, boiled off and added some Pilsen DME to bump it up.

As of now, I have two carboys of gose (OG 1.068) and 1 carboy of essentially Berliner Weiss (OG 1.062 - what would've become the Sangria beer).
Made a judgement call and added the 1/2 gal pinot noir must/ juice (~SG 1.192 - literally off the chart of the hydrometer...) to one of the gose batches. Boosted the SG from 1.013 to 1.035. The beer was already 7.2% so we will see where it goes!

Decided to abandon the Watermelon Margarita idea and decided on a kiwi Berliner Weiss instead. Just processed and froze 6lbs of kiwi and will add in the next day or so.

Keep me posted on this one! I'm especially interested in the color you get. This may work out perfect for my rose sour I have fermenting now. This one is my first co-pitch (two goodbelly shots, 644 24 hours later).

 

[ShareBrewing]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1505050371.046065.jpg

Looks like purple Kool-Aid. This is right after the juice was added. The color is insane.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1505050470.220813.jpg

This is the hydrometer reading from it.

By the next day it had formed another thin krausen about 1/4 inch thick. Even the krausen is a crazy deep shade of purple.

 

[TravelingLight]

View attachment 413498

Looks like purple Kool-Aid. This is right after the juice was added. The color is insane.

View attachment 413499

This is the hydrometer reading from it.

By the next day it had formed another thin krausen about 1/4 inch thick. Even the krausen is a crazy deep shade of purple.

Damn that looks sexy. I'm super interested in how this turns out as I've been wanted to introduce some wine juice concentrate into some beers. May end up doing it for the lacto + 644 co-pitch I have going now. Debating between wine juice or a raspberry/blackberry combo.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Be aware of the massive kick-up in fermentation. It was pretty timid at first but 4 days after adding the juice this was the krausen. Only about 10 inches thick... So leave some headspace in the carboy!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1505230082.137045.jpg

Why are gose and Berliner Weiss so perfect for making cocktail themed beers?!

 

[TravelingLight]

Be aware of the massive kick-up in fermentation. It was pretty timid at first but 4 days after adding the juice this was the krausen. Only about 10 inches thick... So leave some headspace in the carboy!

View attachment 413792

Why are gose and Berliner Weiss so perfect for making cocktail themed beers?!

Funky butt-lovin!! That is the biggest damn krausen I've ever seen! I love it. Hope you had a blowoff on that bastard.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Bottled up the kiwi and margarita. Decided to make the kiwi a gose by adding 10g of the hiwa kai salt to the 3 gal yield (or 3.33g/gal). The kiwi flavor was there but I'm amazed I didn't get more out of it. The salt helped to make it pop. Added a few tsp of kiwi extract (Brewers Best) and it tasted just right. Was looking for that fresh juicy character. Thumbs up on the kiwi extract!

Added 3.5 tbsp of lime-tequila tincture in the margarita. Tasted great! Can't wait for this one to turn out.

Kiwi: 1.062 -> 1.015 =
Margarita: 1.068 -> 1.013 =

Sangria (pre-wine): 1.068->1.013 = 7.2%
Post-wine: 1.035->1.013 = 10.1%
Added 3lbs blackberries, and 4lbs peaches.

Will post back with pics of all three side by side when ready.

 

[TravelingLight]

Bottled up the kiwi and margarita. Decided to make the kiwi a gose by adding 10g of the hiwa kai salt to the 3 gal yield (or 3.33g/gal). The kiwi flavor was there but I'm amazed I didn't get more out of it. The salt helped to make it pop. Added a few tsp of kiwi extract (Brewers Best) and it tasted just right. Was looking for that fresh juicy character. Thumbs up on the kiwi extract!

Added 3.5 tbsp of lime-tequila tincture in the margarita. Tasted great! Can't wait for this one to turn out.

Kiwi: 1.062 -> 1.015 =
Margarita: 1.068 -> 1.013 =

Sangria (pre-wine): 1.068->1.013 = 7.2%
Post-wine: 1.035->1.013 = 10.1%
Added 3lbs blackberries, and 4lbs peaches.

Will post back with pics of all three side by side when ready.

Bump!!! How's the sangria version coming along?

 

[ShareBrewing]

After about 3 weeks in the bottle, the sangria is incredible! It may be the best beer I've ever made! It went down to 1.012, making it 10.2%. As the Belgians would say, it's "digestible", meaning it's more quaffable for such a high ABV.

The wine was an incredible addition to the beer, really gave some residual grapey sweetness which totally rounds out the subtle berry and peach tones. Sat on fruit for about 3 weeks. Weird though, the fruit never dropped into solution. And I never used a secondary.

The salt and coriander are very much in the background and just help to burst the more fruity flavors. Going high on the salt would've ruined this.

Again, the best beer I've made to date! Please try to make your own version and let us know.

 

[TravelingLight]

After about 3 weeks in the bottle, the sangria is incredible! It may be the best beer I've ever made! It went down to 1.012, making it 10.2%. As the Belgians would say, it's "digestible", meaning it's more quaffable for such a high ABV.

The wine was an incredible addition to the beer, really gave some residual grapey sweetness which totally rounds out the subtle berry and peach tones. Sat on fruit for about 3 weeks. Weird though, the fruit never dropped into solution. And I never used a secondary.

The salt and coriander are very much in the background and just help to burst the more fruity flavors. Going high on the salt would've ruined this.

Again, the best beer I've made to date! Please try to make your own version and let us know.

Hell yes! You definitely have my attention now. Now I need to read back through your posts and put together a game plan. Also, FWIW, I've noticed on a lot of my fruited beers, particularly fruited with berries, they never drop into solution (until I cold crash) but still get plenty of flavor. No booziness with that much abv in that beer? Man I would LOVE to try a bottle of that.

ETA:
What amounts of peach and blackberry did you use? And did you go with fresh/frozen or use purees? Finally, did you fruit it after or before the pinot addition?

 

[RPh_Guy]

FYI cold crashing or even slightly cycling the temperature down/up a few times should drop the fruit.
It is being held up by CO2 bubbles from fermentation. Cooling it dissolves more CO2.

 

[TravelingLight]

FYI cold crashing or even slightly cycling the temperature down/up a few times should drop the fruit.
It is being held up by CO2 bubbles from fermentation. Cooling it dissolves more CO2.

Yes. I cold crash everything. I've found that some fruit drops more quickly than others. If I'm using blackberries or raspberries, it drops fairly quickly. But the last time I used apricots it took a few days longer to drop out.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Sadly I'm not yet able to cold crash my beers. It was my assumption that it was the fruit cap was so dense it was just being floated by pockets of CO2. Actually got a bit worried about it but it seems to have worked out.

The fruit is added AFTER the wine addition. Personally, this could great with red or white wine. Just go for it. Make sure to let the fermentation settle and add the wine around 10-14 days into primary.

Fruit is added once the wine refermentation settles (~2 weeks after wine addition). TRANSFER TO SECONDARY. Condition on fruit for ~2.5 weeks. Life got busy so I apologize for the tough numbers.
***Edit: went back over my notes. I transferred to secondary.

As for the FRUIT, is used:
- 3 lbs blackberries. Berries are so easy to work with. Just lightly mashed the full amount in a gal freezer bag and then froze it airtight (not vacuumed). Let it thaw once and then mashed and pulverized it more (w/o opening the bag) then refroze. Gave it one last good mashing before adding to beer.
- 4 lbs of peaches. Used the same technique as the blackberries but briefly blanched the peaches to kill anything on the skin and to soften the fruit. Cut em up (yes it's very messy) and then freeze, mash, refreeze, etc.

There could be something to this, just like the margarita gose. Cocktail inspired gose beers just work. Try different wines or different fruits! But I recommend making the higher ABV gose base, or else I feel the wine addition could overpower a 4% gose. But maybe that's a good thing! Just don't add apples... a lot of people add them to sangria mixes. That just doesn't work in beer. Please don't.

 

[ShareBrewing]

But back to MARGARITA GOSE! my most recent batch was a success but I feel like the tequila-lime extract has this overly fruit-loopy sweetness to it. Does anyone have tips for a good extract?

# limes / (X) vol of tequila?
Zested/shaved vs sliced tequila rind?
How long do you let it sit?

Or just add a bunch of fresh juice at bottling? I feel like mine is missing that fresh juicy burst.

 

[TravelingLight]

But back to MARGARITA GOSE! my most recent batch was a success but I feel like the tequila-lime extract has this overly fruit-loopy sweetness to it. Does anyone have tips for a good extract?

# limes / (X) vol of tequila?
Zested/shaved vs sliced tequila rind?
How long do you let it sit?

Or just add a bunch of fresh juice at bottling? I feel like mine is missing that fresh juicy burst.

Last time I did it, I did zest of 3 limes in about 3/4 cup of tequila. Let that sit about 2 weeks, and I would agitate it daily. Strained it out and added to the keg and racked in on top of it. I think this amount was perfect. Per my notes, I used Margaritaville Silver Tequila. Although I think the brand of tequila doesn't matter a whole helluva lot.

 

[ShareBrewing]

That's about the same ratio I used. If I remember correctly I used about 12oz tequila (Espolon blanco) and 4 limes. But I had to slice off the rind with a very thin knife, the skin was just too thin to use a grater/peeler. Got VERY little white pith but I think I let it condition for about 3 weeks, agitating almost every other day. Maybe the extra week made the difference?

I also feel like the next one I do will be loaded with fresh juice. Right now Aldi's is selling bags of 6-7 limes for only a dollar. Might take advantage, buy 20 bucks worth and juice off ALL of them and see how much juice, freeze it, and save it.

If you had to mix lime juice into the beer to get that "fresh juice" flavor, how much would you add? I personally think of Dogfish SeaQuench as the best example. Maybe add a quart of juice? From my bar-backing days at bars, that would require about 30 or so limes. Maybe more.

 

[TravelingLight]

That's about the same ratio I used. If I remember correctly I used about 12oz tequila (Espolon blanco) and 4 limes. But I had to slice off the rind with a very thin knife, the skin was just too thin to use a grater/peeler. Got VERY little white pith but I think I let it condition for about 3 weeks, agitating almost every other day. Maybe the extra week made the difference?

I also feel like the next one I do will be loaded with fresh juice. Right now Aldi's is selling bags of 6-7 limes for only a dollar. Might take advantage, buy 20 bucks worth and juice off ALL of them and see how much juice, freeze it, and save it.

If you had to mix lime juice into the beer to get that "fresh juice" flavor, how much would you add? I personally think of Dogfish SeaQuench as the best example. Maybe add a quart of juice? From my bar-backing days at bars, that would require about 30 or so limes. Maybe more.

What type of grater/peeler were you using? I used a small handheld micro planer like this:

It's much easier to use than a peeler or box grater.

As far as dosing with juice, I know it's kind of a pain in the ass, but I would take measured samples of the beer and dose them with different amounts until I found what I liked the best. Then scale that up for the whole batch and add it to the keg/bottling bucket.

 

[bigdawg86]

So I finally am getting around to brewing this... will be my first all grain brew. Although I have done a kettle sour before (extract). I went to my brew shop, it happened to be their biannual sale and they were busy and the employees weren't able to be as helpful. They didn't have OYL-605 but had WLP677. I asked if it would kettle sour fine and he just said "it should"... my lacto starter has been incubating 24 hours ago and have the flask in my brew kettle with a ferm wrap inside. Keeping 82-84 with my inkbird... I hope it sours enough when it's all said and done.

What I ready about WLP677 is that it isn't a powerhouse when it comes to souring.

 

[bigdawg86]

So I'm looking for a reassurance / guidance... I Pitched my WLP677 48 hours ago. I have a massive pellicle but my pH is still sitting at 4.5 (calibrated meter). I bought some Wyeast 5335 as backup. Should I pitch it in or be patient? I didn't boil after pulling the bag so don't want it to start spontaneously fermenting.

Also from all I have read about keeping the bacteria warm, I am holding my kettle at 94°... should I lower it? Keep it?

WLP677 lists 70-75° and Wyeast 5335 states 60-95°.

EDIT: I decided to pitch it... Figured the cost of the new lacto pitch vs the cost and time of the batch was reason enough to do it.

 

[TravelingLight]

So I'm looking for a reassurance / guidance... I Pitched my WLP677 48 hours ago. I have a massive pellicle but my pH is still sitting at 4.5 (calibrated meter). I bought some Wyeast 5335 as backup. Should I pitch it in or be patient? I didn't boil after pulling the bag so don't want it to start spontaneously fermenting.

Also from all I have read about keeping the bacteria warm, I am holding my kettle at 94°... should I lower it? Keep it?

WLP677 lists 70-75° and Wyeast 5335 states 60-95°.

EDIT: I decided to pitch it... Figured the cost of the new lacto pitch vs the cost and time of the batch was reason enough to do it.

Take this with a grain of...barley because I haven't had it happen to me, but I've read of others getting pellicles on kettle sours which usually means something else wild got in there. Maybe some wild brett, maybe some wild sacc, maybe something else. BUT, regardless, 48 hours without a ph drop is odd. I haven't used 677 nor 5335.

When you mentioned you didn't boil after pulling the bag, are you referring to BIAB? Are you saying you mashed, pulled the bag, then pitched lacto without boiling? If that's the case, I'm willing to bet something else got in there. Granted, I've done at least one without boiling after mashing and didn't have a problem, but it's always a risk. If it were me (and someone correct me if I am wrong), I would consider boiling it now to kill whatever is in there, then re-pitching something else. Assuming you haven't added any hops, I would just pick up some Goodbelly straight shot probiotics. Two of those pitched straight into the wort should be good. Anyone else agree? Disagree?

 

[bigdawg86]

Yes it was BIAB... mashed, and pulled the bag. To be honest I was following the directions so closely as this is my first all grain brew, that it didn't occur to me that I should have boiled briefly. Maybe they can add that to the directions.

But....I FINALLY got some pH drop! So I pitched the WLP677 (which had a pellicle even in the starter which WAS boiled) and had no pH drop after 48 hours, then I pitched Wyeast 5335 and no pH drop after 24 hours, the final backup was I amazon primed some Swanson Lacto P. when I wasn't seeing a drop... and pitched the powder of 10 caps last night. I also dropped my temp to 82° instead of 94°.

Not sure who or what contributed to the pH drop but this morning before work it was at 3.7, I presume that by tonight I will be ready to boil. I tasted the sample and there were no off flavors so I am going to proceed as planned.

 

[Sillybilly]

Have you checked the specific gravity of the wort? If it dropped more than a few points, you likely have other contenders in there.

 

[bigdawg86]

Have you checked the specific gravity of the wort? If it dropped more than a few points, you likely have other contenders in there.

No... I didn't check the gravity because I had planned on doing an official "pre-boil" gravity once it had soured. There is no off-gassing or C02 production. Since the starter had a pellicle I am less worried about it due having confidence in my aseptic technique in building said starter.

After I pitched the WLP677 I got confused because I read reports of it fermenting and others where it doesn't so who knows.

Here is the pellicle on my starter right before I pitched it. Regardless the wort is gonna hit target pH and getting boiled tonight.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Question from a not-quite-yet sour brewer. Do you stir the pellicle into the wort? Skim it off? Sorry if this has already been explained, I don't recall seeing it.

 

[ShareBrewing]

It's best to leave the pellicle undisturbed. It serves at the microbes' barrier against oxygen. You can easily look this up in some other threads, but oxygen is the mortal enemy of sour beer and can cause some funky off-flavors, depending. Best to leave the pellicle as is, unless you have to transfer/bottle or get a gravity reading.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Sorry, my question wasn't very clear. I meant, what happens to the pellicle when souring is complete and you move on to boiling? Is it waste to be discarded or a vital ingredient?

 

[microbusbrewery]

It's best to leave the pellicle undisturbed. It serves at the microbes' barrier against oxygen. You can easily look this up in some other threads, but oxygen is the mortal enemy of sour beer and can cause some funky off-flavors, depending. Best to leave the pellicle as is, unless you have to transfer/bottle or get a gravity reading.

This, just leave it. It does no harm and as ShareBrewing said, provides protection over the long haul.

 

[Sillybilly]

No... I didn't check the gravity because I had planned on doing an official "pre-boil" gravity once it had soured. There is no off-gassing or C02 production. Since the starter had a pellicle I am less worried about it due having confidence in my aseptic technique in building said starter.

After I pitched the WLP677 I got confused because I read reports of it fermenting and others where it doesn't so who knows.

Here is the pellicle on my starter right before I pitched it. Regardless the wort is gonna hit target pH and getting boiled tonight.

Probably okay, but personally I would check gravity before boiling, beats finding out afterwards that your beer is going to have <1% ABV.

 

[bigdawg86]

Probably okay, but personally I would check gravity before boiling, beats finding out afterwards that your beer is going to have <1% ABV.

Good point. Well if that's the case, lesson learned and try again!