Man, what went wrong here?

[Beavdowg]

A few weeks ago I brewed up a Red Chair clone. Here's the recipe:

5.5 lb NW 2-role pale
1 lb Crystal 20L
1 lb Carastan 30L
1.5 lb Munich Light
1.5 lb Pilsner
½ lb Flaked Wheat

Centennial, 1 ounce, 60 minutes
Centennial, 1 ounce, 30 minutes
Cascade, 1 ounce, 15 minutes
Cascade, 1 ounce, 5 minutes
Cascade, 1 ounce, dry hop 14 days

I used Burton Ale Yeast (White Labs WLP023)

I tried real hard to keep the fermentation down in the 63*F range as I didn't want much estery characteristics from the yeast. It was in my dining room which in the winter was staying in that 61-66*F range. My efficiency was bad as my OG was only 1.048, the expected is 1.058. I made a 1 L starter and the wort was bubbling away within 8 hours of pitching. It took almost 7 days to stop bubbling, I let it sit for a total of 10 days before racking to my keg. Usually my fermentations don't last that long. I dry hopped it in a keg for 14 days and put it on gas. The beer tastes very "bitey" is the only way I can describe it. At first I thought it was overcarbed, so I confirmed that it wasn't and it tastes the same. I then thought it was maybe that grassy-type taste you can get if you leave the dry-hop in too long so I removed the hop bag. Still the same. I've never used WLP023 before but I don't think it's the yeast. When you take a sip it is very sharp on the tongue, not very much malty flavor at all. You might also describe it as a kind of spicy feel/taste. There's no bad aroma, it's got a nice subtle hoppy aroma. Needless to say it doesn't taste like Red Chair whatsoever.

Please offer suggestions or ideas as to what this is and how I ended up here.

thanks!

 

[JBrady]

I've done beers with alot of cascade like this one that came out with a sharp/astringent bitterness due to the stong grapefruit like character. Not saying thats your problem but it has been for me in the past, I now use cascade in moderation. I just don't like their flavor.

 

[schweaty]

I threw your numbers into beersmith @ 70% efficency and it gave me a starting gravity of 1.050 so you weren't that far off. 70% isn't a bad efficency to have at the homebrewing level at all! However, I'm not sure what efficency you were aiming for but with those numbers your efficency would have need to be 93.5% to hit the target ABV of Red Chair, which is 6.4%. The Deschutes website also says that the IBU's are 60, and with the recipe in beersmith it gave me 70 IBU. Not sure what the alpha acids are on your hops but that might have had something to do with it. Not to mention that the bitterness will subside with a little bit of aging. How old is the beer?

 

[jkreuze]

I suspect it just needs to age for another month or so.

 

[Beavdowg]

Schweaty,

Thanks for the response and checking in Beersmith. I use BrewPal on my iPhone. Once Brewsmith comes out for Mac I'm gettin' it! What I posted was the recipe that I found, the actual brain bill I used to get the correct gravity (since my efficiency is usually 60-65%) is: 5.5# 2 Row Base, 2# Pale Ale, 1# Crystal 20, 1#Carastan dark, 1.5# Munich light, 0.5# flaked Wheat, 1.5# Pilsen. What does that spit out from Beersmith?

 

[HighLadderBrews]

First off, what was your FG reading? Don't rely on airlock activity to determine when a beer is done.

Did you get this flavor before dry hopping? I like to try the beers all thru the process to be able to determine how the flavors are changing (hopefully no off flavors/oxidation/etc...).

14 days is may be too long for dry hopping and may just need to mellow.

Also, my friend has a mac and he has downloaded some type of program that allows him to open BeerSmith on his mac...you should check into that.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Yeah, a FG reading is needed here. Note that 63F is 5F below what White Labs recommends as the lowest fermentation temp for this yeast. Why did you use 023 if you didn't want an estery beer? How much did you carb it, what temp are you serving it at, and how long has it been since you kegged?

 

[badmajon]

Personally I think the dry hopping is at fault. What probably happened is you dry hopped as if you had a bigger beer, and when you got less sugar, the hops weren't balanced out right and it made it taste bad.

 

[BeernuT100]

I say let it sit. It sounds like it's still pretty young.

 

[Beavdowg]

I appreciate all the feedback. So I've sampled this beer again last night and that stinging, spicey, bitterness on the tongue is starting to abate. It's still not malty enough to be anything resembling Red Chair but it's coming into its own and not bad. I really am thinking that the dry-hopping was the culprit. I think I may have just sampled it a little too early after dry-hopping so it was simply too green.

The answers to some of the questions:

The FG was 1.011. I carbed it by putting it on 30 psi for 2 days and then dropping down to 12 psi for the rest and to serve. I carbed it 2-3 weeks ago. I serve at 43*F. I used WLP023 because the LHBS owner whom I respect a lot thought that it would be a good place to start for the Red Chair clone. He was the one that suggested I ferment it down in that 63*F range to avoid getting too much of the estery character from the yeast. It just so happened that my dining room was staying down in that range. I'm hoping to build a dual stage temp controlled fermentation chamber soon so I can dial in whatever temp I want and have it be consistent.

Thanks again for all the feedback. That's what I love about HBT!

Cheers!

 

[rayg]

Please offer suggestions or ideas as to what this is and how I ended up here.

thanks!

The answer is obvious to me: too much hops for that og level. I calculate
82 IBU for typical centennial at 10.5aa and typical Cascade at 6.6.
Of course aging will cause the hop flavor and aroma components to
dissipate, but the bitterness will take a long time to go away.
Even if the og was the 1.058 you were hoping for (you got 65%
efficiency instead of 75%) it's still too much. I've had the intense
bite in pale ales that were 1.060 with 40 IBU intended but got
higher utilization because I was using extract instead of all-grain,
they were probably 60 IBU.

Ray

 

[rayg]

Also, I doubt the grassy flavor is from the dry hops. You used a very
large amount of hop leaves in the beer, if you dumped that many maple
leaves in you would also get the grassy/vegetal taste just because they
are green leaves and that's what they taste like cooked. I got a similar
taste when I tried to make a high ibu beer with low aa Fuggles hops, I just
had to use so many ounces of them. I would use the smallest amount
of high aa hops for bittering and limit the major hop additions to less than
15 min, and if you do use a lot, try to scoop the hops out as soon
as the flame is turned off (with the exception of the dry hops). The dry
hops are adding primarily aroma, since you are not heating them you
aren't extracting much if anything from them.

Ray