Making Traditional Sake! The difference between it and Rice wine.

[Arpolis]

I prefer the taste of mead to Sake but I brew Sake for the art and fun of making it. I like old traditional methodes and I think Sake making is some of the oldest out there lack traditional show meads. Glad you like the writeup.

 

[Leadgolem]

Erm, I can't seem to find any reference on this point. Should you refrigerate koji-kin? I just received a sake kit, but I don't plan on using it immediately.

 

[Arpolis]

Koji-kin does not need to be refrigerated as long as it is kept dry. As long as you use the stuff In a few months I would not worry.

 

[Leadgolem]

Koji-kin does not need to be refrigerated as long as it is kept dry. As long as you use the stuff In a few months I would not worry.

Thanks. I doubt I'll get through the summer without starting a batch, or five...

 

[Tom2516]

I have tried twice now to make the Kome-Koji and this is the result. I have sanitized everything, so I thought. And insight to the error of my ways would be greatly appreciated. I am using a Styrofoam cooler, with a heating pad on a stone. I am able to keep the temp right at 95 F.

 

[Arpolis]

Yea that does not look like the right mold. It might be in your styrofoam. Styrofoam is porus and might be holding some mold. I am a fan of the traditional plastic cooler to use as my incubator. They are easier to clean.

 

[aiptasia]

I was so impressed with the rice wine thread (and results at home) that I decided to see if I could try my hand at Traditional Sake. It wasn't easy, but I managed to track down the ingredients for your recipe, Arpolis. Our city here in Jacksonville has more than a dozen Asian markets. After vainly searching through four of them, it dawned on me it might be best if I find one that specializes strictly in Japanese foods. One call later was all it took to confirm they carried Koji rice and several brands of Japanese Sake complete with a sweet/dry and acidic scale on each with tasting notes. When the owner, Tomoko, asked what I would be doing with it, she was very impressed that I was going to attempt to make Traditional Sake with it. As to the Koji rice, I decided I would go this route as our LHBC doesn't carry Koji spores, but they do carry several varieties of beer, mead and wine yeasts. I'll post updates when I begin tomorrow.

 

[Arpolis]

Glad you were able to track down the koji. What yeast do you think you will use? Are you able to get ahold of the Wyeast Sake yeast or going to try another cold tolerant or Lager yeast?

 

[aiptasia]

I do have some White Labs WLP800 pilsner yeast that I could use, but i'm thinking about getting some Lalvin 1116 from our LHBS. They have a pretty good selection of wine and mead yeasts. There's no option for Wyeast locally and i'd rather not have to order it in at this time of year, as our outdoor temperatures are already well over 90 degrees f.

White Labs also has the #7 and #9 strains available seasonally. Their #7 strain, interestingly enough, recommends a fermentation temperature in the 70's for sokujo moto method. Their #9 strain has a range from 62-68 or so which sounds closer to matching your method of cooling down the fermentation to reduce lactic acid production.

IDK, do you think a pilsner strain would work well with sake?

 

[Arpolis]

Never tried the pilsner strain myself. It will not taste like any commercial sake I am sure but may still be interesting. Even though the #9 strain says 62 - 68 it will work into the mid to high 40*F range for short spells. I said Wyeast earlier but meant the white labs strains. #9 strain is a popular one to use with my method. I liked the 1116 yeast I used in this thread. It had this nice smooth floral and kinda fruity character that was nice. Your choice on the yeast. I am just curious.

 

[aiptasia]

I think i'm going to err on the side of caution and look for either the #9 strain (WLP709) or the Lalvin 1116 strain for the first batch. I'm not opposed to experimenting but I like to follow a new technique/new recipe as closely as possible until I have that mastered. Why run before you can crawl, eh?

Since i'll be following your forumla verbatium until I have the process down, it looks like i'll be moving to the moto step by already having the koji rice. I'm going to add the dry koji rice in the same amount as your recommending for your Kome-Koji (38.93 grams).

I'll be soaking the 78.99 dry grams of Kokuho Rose sushi rice in water overnight in my fridge, then steam up the rice in my rice steamer and add it to 129.05 grams of cold filtered water to cool it down to koji pitching temperature. After it's cooled down below 100 degrees (lowest reading on my thermometer), i'll mix in the koji rice.

I don't have any pure DAP but I do have yeast nutrient and i'm pretty sure that DAP is a major component (plus zinc, etc.). I will add 1/8 of a teaspoon yeast nutrient to the cold filtered water.

After combining in the jar, i'll aerate it by sealing the jar and stir the hell out of it for five minutes, then repeat, then stir twice a day for 48 hours before moving on to the next step.

 

[Arpolis]

Now my kome-koji was wet and heavier so if you are using dry kome-koji just make sure you are adjusting by weighing out the original dry kome-koji and multiplying by the numbers given at the first of the thread. So you will have the same volume of rice but will be a lighter weight.

 

[aiptasia]

I think I understand what you're saying. I'm using the same 1185 total grams of dry rice an 1936 total grams of water. For the dry koji rice I have, are you saying that I need to measure out the 1 & 1/3 cups of it, weigh that in grams, then multiply it by the 6.666% to get the amount needed to add to each of the steps?

Also, just got word from the LHBS, 1116 is all they have in stock at the moment. 1116 it is.

 

[Arpolis]

I think I understand what you're saying. I'm using the same 1185 total grams of dry rice an 1936 total grams of water. For the dry koji rice I have, are you saying that I need to measure out the 1 & 1/3 cups of it, weigh that in grams, then multiply it by the 6.666% to get the amount needed to add to each of the steps?

Also, just got word from the LHBS, 1116 is all they have in stock at the moment. 1116 it is.

Yes you are absolutely correct on the above.

 

[aiptasia]

Very good. Thank you for the clarification. I also noticed on your list of steps where you have each day activity listed that you're missing a few places where you're letting the ferment warm up to 70f and then not specifying when to put the fermenter jar back into the 50's. It reads like, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" and then a few days later, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" without the steps of putting the fermenter back into the 50's. Somewhere in there, you'll need to cool the rice back down to avoid lactobacillus growth.

I'm assuming the steps are, let it warm up to 70f for a day, feed it koji and wait a day, feed it rice and wait a day, cool it back down. Repeat after x amount of days.

I had some luck at the brew shop. I picked up two packets of 1116 and White Labs 705 Sake Yeast, which is yeast strain #7. I'm going to use 1116 in the batch I have intended to do in 1 gallon glass bell jar, but I also have a few smaller half gallon jars. I'm going to try the #7 strain in one of the smaller jars and just for fun, i'll try the pilsner yeast in the other half gallon jar. The brew shop also carries the Koji spore kits, so next batch I can make the Koma-Koji from scratch and use fresh fungus with my sake.

 

[aiptasia]

Ok, so 1&1/3 cup of dry koji rice came to 240 grams. Multiplied by 6.666% that comes to 15.9984 grams of koji rice for each koji addition. My kitchen digital scale isn't very fine so i'm having to measure out and use 15.9 grams. I'm hoping this is adequate, or I could always round up to 16 grams.

 

[Arpolis]

Very good. Thank you for the clarification. I also noticed on your list of steps where you have each day activity listed that you're missing a few places where you're letting the ferment warm up to 70f and then not specifying when to put the fermenter jar back into the 50's. It reads like, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" and then a few days later, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" without the steps of putting the fermenter back into the 50's. Somewhere in there, you'll need to cool the rice back down to avoid lactobacillus growth.

I'm assuming the steps are, let it warm up to 70f for a day, feed it koji and wait a day, feed it rice and wait a day, cool it back down. Repeat after x amount of days.

I had some luck at the brew shop. I picked up two packets of 1116 and White Labs 705 Sake Yeast, which is yeast strain #7. I'm going to use 1116 in the batch I have intended to do in 1 gallon glass bell jar, but I also have a few smaller half gallon jars. I'm going to try the #7 strain in one of the smaller jars and just for fun, i'll try the pilsner yeast in the other half gallon jar. The brew shop also carries the Koji spore kits, so next batch I can make the Koma-Koji from scratch and use fresh fungus with my sake.

Haha you are correct about the whole warming and cooling bit. Darn too much time has passed and I can't edit. Basically there on page two post 19 I believe where I consolidated the steps add on day 9 to cool down the mash back to the 50ish range. You want about 3 warm days and 3 cool days in the part.

 

[aiptasia]

Haha you are correct about the whole warming and cooling bit. Darn too much time has passed and I can't edit. Basically there on page two post 19 I believe where I consolidated the steps add on day 9 to cool down the mash back to the 50ish range. You want about 3 warm days and 3 cool days in the part.

Perfect. Got it.

So here's what i've just done: I've cleaned and sanitized a one gallon bell jar and lid, rice spoon, measuring cups and scale tray. Once the tray dried out, I took the 78.99 grams of Kukho Rose sushi rice (soaked in my fridge overnight) and steamed it up with an equal amount of water in my small six cup rice steamer.

I took the steamed rice and scooped it into the 1 gallon bell jar with my rice spoon. I added 129.05 grams of cold zephyrhills bottled water to the jar and mixed it with the rice spoon to lower the temperature of the rice. I let it sit about five minutes to cool down. I added the 15.9 grams of dried koji rice and mixed it in once it felt cool enough. I then remembered I forgot the yeast nutrient so I measured out 1/8th of a teaspoon and sprinkled it in, then mixed again with the spoon. I put the lid on it and sealed it and placed the jar in an upper kitchen cabinet to keep warm, dry and dark while the koji does it's work.

So far, so good.

 

[Arpolis]

Awesome you are on your way now. Keep us updated.

 

[aiptasia]

The Koji works fast. I opened the cabinet this morning to mix up the contents of the jar and the rice appears to be about 70% liquefied. I'm going to pitch the yeast after making a starter tomorrow and then chill it down to about 50f in my kegerator overnight for 12 hours. Saturday, i'll remove it and let it warm back up into the 70's back in the dark cabinet in my kitchen. I am going to miss two days worth of stir steps on Sunday and Monday as I have some out of town business to attend to, then i'll be back tuesday to stir it and then cool it back down to 50f.

 

[aiptasia]

O.k., day five on the steps list. Here are my notes:

The koji+rice+water is mostly white glucose soup now. Very few solids look suspended in the liquid. It looks like white glucose soup in the jar. I decided to rely on a little past brewing experience and pitch the yeast directly to the glucose soup. My reasons for this are many. First, It's morning and i'm feeling lazy. I know that by creating a starter using one type of sugar food source for your yeast and then switching the sugar source after you pitch the yeast stresses the yeast (potentially producing off flavors). I know that yeast prefer glucose and fructose preferentially over long chain sugars, so it's likely that they'll consume the glucose and fructose first anyway leaving residual unconsumed long chain sugars in the mash (potential food for lactobacillus or other bacteria). And lastly, Lalvin 1116 appears to be a vigorous beast of a yeast and should have no problems with direct pitching.

So, I mixed the yeast in 1/3 cup of water with energizer and pitched. I'm using cheesecloth wedged between the mouth of the jar and the lid as an airlock and letting the moto rest at room temperature for an hour to let the yeast activate. Then, it's going into the cold until 11:00 pm tonight in my temperature controlled drop freezer.

 

[aiptasia]

O.k., the Moto starter is cooling off in the drop freezer set to 50 degrees f.. After an hour rest after pitching, the yeast was moving fast with a nice even coat of foam at room temperature. I shall pull it out of the freezer at 11 pm tonight and place it back in the cabinet to slowly warm back up in the dark.

 

[Arpolis]

Sounds good. I guess with the sake yeast being in liquid form it is more important to do a starter and that is why I am used to it. 1116 as a dry yeast should do better with a direct pitch compared to liquid yeasts. So from the sounds of it you look to be doing well.

 

[aiptasia]

Ok, I pulled out the starter from the drop freezer last night at 11 pm and all of the visible yeast activity (foaming, etc.) has ceased. Stir step one this morning and two this afternoon and no visible yeast activity in the starter. Again, I will be missing the stir steps for the next two days but will be home in time on Tuesday to cool off the yeast again. It's still pretty glutinous and soupy so i'm not worried about missing the starter stir steps that much at this point. Everything in the jar looks like it's in complete contact with each other so it should be fine.

 

[sonofgrok]

Just checked in on this thread. Yep, I still don't have the patience to do it...

 

[Arpolis]

Hahahaha

 

[aiptasia]

Just checked in on this thread. Yep, I still don't have the patience to do it...

The history of sake, and the traditional steps used to make it including the maths and attention to detail is what's most appealing about it to me. That, plus if I get a nice, clear, dry to semi-dry sake as a result is just pure enjoyment to me.

I do have some questions about the settling and clearing stages to produce a very clear sake. From what i'm reading in Arpolis's steps, is that after squeezing the lees in a sanitized fine mesh bag, you filter the sake again through a nest of sanitized, wet cheesecloth through a funnel to remove the bigger rice solids.
After that, it looks like you're using a crushed campden tablet to kill off the microbial action in the sake and adding potassium sorbate as a preservative. I'm not sure if the chemical additions are necessary if you pasteurize the sake once it's bottled but better safe than sorry.

I know that in my rice wine, getting it to clear requires some cold crashing. I plan on doing the same thing with the sake, by adding the chemical additions, adding the bentonite powder pre-mixed with a little water (per bentonite instructions), stirring it up good and then cold crashing the batch down to 33 degrees. Then, I plan to rack off the clear sake and bottle it, then heat pasteurize it by heating a 40 quart pot of water to 190f, add in the bottles and cover with a pot lid, cut the heat off then allow the bottles to sit in the hot water for ten minutes and pasteurize.

If those clearing steps sound feasible, or if you have any insights into clearing the sake, please let me know.

 

[Arpolis]

I use the Camden and sorbate because I am generally too lazy to pasteurize after bottling. I know I know I have the time and pairience to go through the 100+ grueling steps but I can't pasteurize? Eh I get lazy at the end I guess.

So if you bottle pasteurize then no need to add the Camden and sorbate.

If you want what is called "Mirin" which is just cloudy sake. you bottle right after straining through the cheese cloth and if you use the Camden sorbate method it will often back sweeten itself by about .002 or so because many enzymes will keep working but the yeast stops completely. Just cold crashing will mostly clear the sake but by industry standards if you want "brilliant" sake then using the bentonite as you explained is the way to go. I just cold crash it myself usually.

 

[Leadgolem]

I did an experiment with red rice wine where I tried to clear it with bentonite powder. It wasn't effective. I believe that so many suspended solids where present that the attractive force of the bentonite simply got overwhelmed.

I just finished a simple experiment where I filtered red rice wine through a coffee filter, and a piece of leftover polyester fabric. The fabric was a more effective filter, but also clogged so badly that about 1/8th of the liquid was left in the filter. The coffee filter did not remove as many of the solids, but it also did not clog.

You might want to filter before using the bentonite, or I'm afraid you are likely to run into the same problem I did.

 

[aiptasia]

Just cold crashing will mostly clear the sake but by industry standards if you want "brilliant" sake then using the bentonite as you explained is the way to go. I just cold crash it myself usually.

I have a third batch of rice wine i'm due to press on Thursday. I think i'm going to use the clearing technique that i'd outlined for the sake on the rice wine to see how that clears up. Press the lees, strain through thick wet cheesecloth through my big brewing funnel, campden & sorbate, bentonite slurry, cold crash. Then, after it clears, pasteurize.

You might want to filter before using the bentonite, or I'm afraid you are likely to run into the same problem I did.

I plan on doing exactly that. I want as many of the rice solids out of the sake as possible before adding bentonite. What I really wish I had is a micron filter pad that can filter the sake down to about 50 microns. I think that my LHBS carries them for filtering wine and mead but i'm not 100% sure. I know I can get them online. If the clarifying steps fail on the rice wine pressing, I may have to get a micron pad.

I've watched both parts of this video recently and it's just amazing.