Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[madwilliamflint]

Thanks.
Many of us may not be experienced brewers. At what stage do you add it?

I have heard many add it at the beginning of the wine making process and others seem to add it at the end.

I've also read that it can take away some of the flavor and color if overdone?

Oh God, at the very very end. When you're filtering the stuff and it just doesn't seem to want to separate.

I've found harvesting of rice wine to be the biggest pain in the arse of all. I end up with an opaque white liquid that's still fermenting. Then I'll put that in another fermenter (depending on how much I have, usually that means a 2-liter soda bottle) to let it finish fermenting and separate.

IF, at THAT stage, it's being remarkably stubborn (which it usually seems to be) then once it's stopped fermenting I'll add bentonite (dissolve it in warm water, add to the bottle, shake vigorously, leave it for a few days) and it'll clear up well.

Also: "clear up well" means it'll still be a bit chalky looking. Which is fine with me.

Disclaimer: I'm FAR from experienced. I've only started diving in to this "brew stuff at home" nonsense this year. It's easy to get hooked though

 

[madwilliamflint]

I am in the process of fractional freezing. If anyone tries this, take out the syrup that sits on top, or bottom of the ice. The rice wine will come out dry this way. Keep the sugar syrup so that you can add back a little if you want to sweeten it up a bit.

My second run gave me an abv of 21%. I'm using dry ice on the third run to give me approximately 30% abv. I've already tried fractional freezing on Apple Cider and Beer. Both are fantastic.

DUDE! Reading my mind. I've been trying this out with cider (mainly to get the process down. My cider started out too sweet for this to yield a consumable product.)

Seems to me like it would take a metric ton of rice to get enough yield to survive this kind of process.

 

[Newsman]

Oh God, at the very very end. When you're filtering the stuff and it just doesn't seem to want to separate.

I've found harvesting of rice wine to be the biggest pain in the arse of all. I end up with an opaque white liquid that's still fermenting. Then I'll put that in another fermenter (depending on how much I have, usually that means a 2-liter soda bottle) to let it finish fermenting and separate.

IF, at THAT stage, it's being remarkably stubborn (which it usually seems to be) then once it's stopped fermenting I'll add bentonite (dissolve it in warm water, add to the bottle, shake vigorously, leave it for a few days) and it'll clear up well.

Also: "clear up well" means it'll still be a bit chalky looking. Which is fine with me.

Disclaimer: I'm FAR from experienced. I've only started diving in to this "brew stuff at home" nonsense this year. It's easy to get hooked though

You can "cold crash" it and that helps drop stuff out of suspension

 

[ChefRex]

Harvesting some at the moment, no need to cold crash, the batch in the forefront is crystal clear just takes a little time.

 

[Newsman]

Harvesting some at the moment, no need to cold crash, the batch in the forefront is crystal clear just takes a little time.

True. Just saying that if you're in a hurry to get "clear" rice wine without any dissolved solids, that cold-crashing will help with that.

 

[madwilliamflint]

True. Just saying that if you're in a hurry to get "clear" rice wine without any dissolved solids, that cold-crashing will help with that.

Sounds like I'm just impatient. That jives.

 

[ChefRex]

Sounds like I'm just impatient. That jives.

What I do is, generally I'll get a good separation in the fermenter i scoop a large bit of the solids out and put it in a separate container then pour off the liquid and remaining solids though a strainer.
I'll pour off any liquid that accumulates in the other container and I'm done with the first collection container, then get out another container before I start doing any squeezing of the remaining rice.
The first runnings will clear quickly and I pour it off to yet another container.

 

[dlester]

Don't need extra enzymes, they are already in the yeast balls.

How do you know enzymes are in the yeast balls? That seems unusual.

 

[madwilliamflint]

What I do is, generally I'll get a good separation in the fermenter i scoop a large bit of the solids out and put it in a separate container then pour off the liquid and remaining solids though a strainer.
I'll pour off any liquid that accumulates in the other container and I'm done with the first collection container, then get out another container before I start doing any squeezing of the remaining rice.
The first runnings will clear quickly and I pour it off to yet another container.

Sounds like what I do, for the most part. I scoop out solids on to a strainer while I dig down to the liquid, which I pour through a different strainer. Then the solids go back in.

As I get a yield of clear liquid separating in the collection bottle I pour that off. Every couple/few days I'll add to that collection bottle. As it fills up and separation slows down I'll start another one.

I spend half my life washing out 1 and 2 liter soda bottles while experimenting with filtration ideas, from coffee filters to cheesecloth and plain old strainers.

BUT the girls in the office love it so I'll continue to slave happily away.

 

[madwilliamflint]

How do you know enzymes are in the yeast balls? That seems unusual.

It's what makes the whole thing work. Otherwise I don't expect there'd be any reason to use them at all.

 

[dlester]

DUDE! Reading my mind. I've been trying this out with cider (mainly to get the process down. My cider started out too sweet for this to yield a consumable product.)

Seems to me like it would take a metric ton of rice to get enough yield to survive this kind of process.

I got a 5% wine with about 10 gallons, I froze it down to about 5 and will end up with about 2-3 gallons.

Like I said, keep the syrup separate from the freeze because it will make it too sweet and syrupy.

 

[BGBC]

How do you know enzymes are in the yeast balls? That seems unusual.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

 

[dlester]

It's what makes the whole thing work. Otherwise I don't expect there'd be any reason to use them at all.

The cooking process converts some starch to sugar, that's what you get from this recipe. However, you are leaving behind unconverted starches. I don't believe that Enzymes are included in the yeast balls. It's just yeast. I suggested Enzymes because they will convert the remaining starch to sugar, which will increase the yield.

I guess I shouldn't have mentioned this because now it isn't "simple." There's nothing wrong with the way it is currently done, so you can ignore my comments. I think "simple" makes it more attractive and fun. And, the current method works.

Cheers,

 

[RegarRenill]

How do you know enzymes are in the yeast balls? That seems unusual.

Because if there weren't all of the people before us who haven't used extra enzymes wouldn't have gotten any rice wine. Without the enzymes in the yeast balls, the rice wouldn't sacchrify (sp?) and there would be no sugars for wee beasties to eat and then create the booze. And believe me, the recipe as given in post #1 creates some good alcohol ;-) batch 16 is ready to decant off of the solids, I'll post pics, if I can remember to take them, lol...actually it's on week 8 in the jar. Oops, life has been busy *sigh*

 

[madwilliamflint]

I got a 5% wine with about 10 gallons, I froze it down to about 5 and will end up with about 2-3 gallons.

Like I said, keep the syrup separate from the freeze because it will make it too sweet and syrupy.

Looks like I'm going to need to jack up my production before I try this if it yields 20-30% of the initial volume.

 

[BGBC]

The cooking process converts some starch to sugar, that's what you get from this recipe. However, you are leaving behind unconverted starches. I don't believe that Enzymes are included in the yeast balls. It's just yeast. Cheers,

False. The yeast balls are likely more mold than yeast.

Add'l enzymes shouldn't hurt, but are definitely not necessary for this to ferment fully.

How are you measuring your abv? 5% seems quite low if you're using the standard ratios/recipes espoused in this thread.

 

[ChefRex]

How do you know enzymes are in the yeast balls? That seems unusual.

It's PFM,

Pure ****ing magic!

 

[dlester]

False. The yeast balls are likely more mold than yeast.

Add'l enzymes shouldn't hurt, but are definitely not necessary for this to ferment fully.

How are you measuring your abv? 5% seems quite low if you're using the standard ratios/recipes espoused in this thread.

Yeast...mold...Enzymes. Not sure I really care. I'm not trying to change it. It works and it seems like fun. If you want to try Enzymes, that's cool. If not, don't.

HOWEVER, fractional freezing is a must. Yes, you only get about 20-25% of the volume, but it tastes great.

Good Luck to all,

 

[BGBC]

Well do you want to explain your process/recipe a bit more? Saying that you "add a 1/2 pound of 2-row" isn't that helpful.

To get the enzymes out of the 2-row, you'd have to mash it. Not sure how that fits in with cooked rice.

 

[madwilliamflint]

Yeast...mold...Enzymes. Not sure I really care. I'm not trying to change it. It works and it seems like fun. If you want to try Enzymes, that's cool. If not, don't.

HOWEVER, fractional freezing is a must. Yes, you only get about 20-25% of the volume, but it tastes great.

Good Luck to all,

Hell, I'll try anything anybody has fun with and gets a tasty result from (in...this limited regard.)

 

[dlester]

Well do you want to explain your process/recipe a bit more? Saying that you "add a 1/2 pound of 2-row" isn't that helpful.

To get the enzymes out of the 2-row, you'd have to mash it. Not sure how that fits in with cooked rice.

Well, I wasn't trying to explain the process BGBC. My method is complicated and this thread is "simple and fun." However, since your saying "it isn't that helpful," here it is:

I boiled the rice with about 8-9 gallons of water in my 17 gallon mash tun, cooled and added 2 row for a few hours. It started out as a starchy mess, but converted to sugar at 1.056. I pulled the liquids by straining water through the rice in my mash tun, like beer grains, to a carboy. I put the remaining rice in a brewing bag (for straining) and squeezed the remaining sugars out to the carboy. I added wine yeast and fermented at 65°F.

I clarified the wine and stuck it in the freezer and pulled the ice out, which bumped the abv to about 12%. Then allowed the alcohol to drain out of the ice for an hour.

Hopefully that helps. However, I don't want to complicate the process. This string is for simple, easy and fun. My method was difficult and hard work. I, quite frankly, am not sure I'll do this method again.


Cheers,

 

[jak1010]

I add cooked rice and yeast balls. :what::what:

Anything else is just for flavor. Sometimes a little sugar, maybe some RYR but otherwise, the yeast balls/ARL are the complete package.

 

[dlester]

I add cooked rice and yeast balls. :what::what:

Anything else is just for flavor. Sometimes a little sugar, maybe some RYR but otherwise, the yeast balls/ARL are the complete package.

You're absolutely right. I shouldn't have commented on my process. I am going to try this method next.

What the hell is a yeast ball, LOL. JK. I just have to find some in my area. Since I work downtown LA, I'm sure I could find one there.

 

[pdxal]

Well, I wasn't trying to explain the process BGBC. My method is complicated and this thread is "simple and fun." However, since your saying "it isn't that helpful," here it is:

I boiled the rice with about 8-9 gallons of water in my 17 gallon mash tun, cooled and added 2 row for a few hours. It started out as a starchy mess, but converted to sugar at 1.056. I pulled the liquids by straining water through the rice in my mash tun, like beer grains, to a carboy. I put the remaining rice in a brewing bag (for straining) and squeezed the remaining sugars out to the carboy. I added wine yeast and fermented at 65°F.

I clarified the wine and stuck it in the freezer and pulled the ice out, which bumped the abv to about 12%. When frozen, I strained off the sugary syrup at the bottom and top of ice. Then allowed the alcohol to drain out of the ice for an hour. This method makes it super dry and gets rid of the sugary concentration.

Hopefully that helps. However, I don't want to complicate the process. This string is for simple, easy and fun. My method was difficult and hard work. I, quite frankly, am not sure I'll do this method again.


Cheers,

Yeast balls contain a type of mold and yeast, which creates a simultaneous break down of starches into sugars and fermentation alongside.
At least one source claims they can produce 20% alcohol without need for fractional freezing, and sake makers get in that neighborhood before watering down to 15%ish.
Report back on your test of yeast balls vs, your method.

 

[Darthbrewder]

Well, I wasn't trying to explain the process BGBC. My method is complicated and this thread is "simple and fun." However, since your saying "it isn't that helpful," here it is:

I boiled the rice with about 8-9 gallons of water in my 17 gallon mash tun, cooled and added 2 row for a few hours. It started out as a starchy mess, but converted to sugar at 1.056. I pulled the liquids by straining water through the rice in my mash tun, like beer grains, to a carboy. I put the remaining rice in a brewing bag (for straining) and squeezed the remaining sugars out to the carboy. I added wine yeast and fermented at 65°F.

I clarified the wine and stuck it in the freezer and pulled the ice out, which bumped the abv to about 12%. When frozen, I strained off the sugary syrup at the bottom and top of ice. Then allowed the alcohol to drain out of the ice for an hour. This method makes it super dry and gets rid of the sugary concentration.

Hopefully that helps. However, I don't want to complicate the process. This string is for simple, easy and fun. My method was difficult and hard work. I, quite frankly, am not sure I'll do this method again.


Cheers,

Interesting.. Do you have pics? Sounds similar to what I want to try. Minus the malted barley of course. Have you tried this without the freezer distillation?

 

[dlester]

Interesting.. Do you have pics? Sounds similar to what I want to try. Minus the malted barley of course. Have you tried this without the freezer distillation?

Let me first say: Again, I understand this thread to be "simple," which in a sense makes my comments slightly off topic. However, I can't avoid a question.

First, I have no pics because I didn't do this for the sake of teaching. But, next time I will. Next, the use of barley is for the diastatic power of the enzymes within the grain, which will convert the remaining starch to sugar after. Cooking the rice converts some of the starches, but as you can see from the sticky nature of rice, there are still a lot of starches remaining to convert.

The use of yeast balls in my mind is yeast only. However, it is possible they contain some form of mold, or even enzymes, but I doubt it. However, assuming the yeast balls are only yeast, you are leaving behind a lot of starches, and therefore sugar to be converted to wine. If so, you need to find a way to convert the remaining starches. You can buy enzymes instead of grain if desired. In fact this recipe would definitely benefit from the use of Enzymes purchased at a homebrew store.

One problem I had in boiling 25 pounds of rice is scorching the bottom of my boiler. And, constantly mixing a huge amount of rice. It was a sticky mess and required a lot of muscle power. Try this on a small scale first to see what you need to be successful.

Regarding freezing. It is not called "freeze distillation." That is a term that doesn't exist outside the home brewing community. You are fractionally freezing the wine. And, yes I have tried the rice wine. I don't really like it in low abv form. I prefer it dry and higher abv.

I would be happy to go into more detail, but I think a different thread or email would be best.

By the way, the recipe on this thread is actually easier and accomplishes what I did much easier and simpler. You get a high abv rice wine without the hassle. However, it is too starchy IMO and is why it is hazy. I think I'll try this recipe with some Enzymes to see if it helps or not. Good Luck.

Regards,

 

[dlester]

Yeast balls contain a type of mold and yeast, which creates a simultaneous break down of starches into sugars and fermentation alongside.
At least one source claims they can produce 20% alcohol without need for fractional freezing, and sake makers get in that neighborhood before watering down to 15%ish.
Report back on your test of yeast balls vs, your method.

This is a very good point. And, I would agree up to the point that the yeast balls contain a mold to break down the starches. However, I'm no expert in yeast balls and could be wrong, no doubt. I'll gladly try out the yeast balls along with adding Enzymes in two separate batches to see the outcome. I think it would be interesting.

Fractional freezing can gain up to 30% through some simple methods, and I can produce gallons instead of a cup of 20% abv wine. However, this thread is meant for a "simple" rice wine at high abv, and I support its cool and fun nature.

I would also like to try this recipe with kōji mold. Has anyone here tried kōji mold?

Hats off to the OP,

 

[BGBC]

The use of yeast balls in my mind is yeast only. However, it is possible they contain some form of mold, or even enzymes, but I doubt it.

Sticking to your guns on this...'Yeast' balls = a combo of mold, yeast, & bacteria.

Art of Fermentation - Asian Rice Brews

I appreciate you sharing more about your process, even though it differs from the basic recipe in this thread. I think one reason you end up with a lower ABV (prior to fractional freezing) is that you need to add much more water to the rice in order to mash your barley. This would, in theory, dilute your initial starting point, as opposed to the lower water:rice ratio required when using the yeast balls.

 

[Newsman]

DLester -- please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

 

[dlester]

DLester -- please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

Thanks for the link and info Newsman. If yeast balls are what they are talking about, and they contain everything noted in the wikipedia, then the use of Enzymes are not needed.

I am going to try this method next.

 

[Newsman]

I would also like to try this recipe with kōji mold. Has anyone here tried kōji mold?

Hats off to the OP,

You mean this stuff? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KTIWIWQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There's a guy here who sells it on eBay for much less than Amazon.

 

[dlester]

Cool, thanks Newsman.

General question for anyone on this thread: I've read that some have beaten the yeast balls down for use in the rice wine. I assume some are using a hammer. Being that these little beasties are a living organism, aren't you crushing and killing a portion of them?

Just a thought,

 

[Newsman]

Cool, thanks Newsman.

General question for anyone on this thread: I've read that some have beaten the yeast balls down for use in the rice wine. I assume some are using a hammer. Being that these little beasties are a living organism, aren't you crushing and killing a portion of them?

Just a thought,

Nope. They're basically just in hibernation at that point. I use a mini-food processor and chop 'em to a powder. That helps the yeast and the rice mix.

 

[BGBC]

Cool, thanks Newsman.

General question for anyone on this thread: I've read that some have beaten the yeast balls down for use in the rice wine. I assume some are using a hammer. Being that these little beasties are a living organism, aren't you crushing and killing a portion of them?

Just a thought,

Another option is Angel Rice Leaven (ARL), which is basically a pre-powdered yeast ball (still has the necessary mold and bacteria). It also seems to give a cleaner, more consistent ferment than the yeast balls.

 

[pdxal]

Sticking to your guns on this...'Yeast' balls = a combo of mold, yeast, & bacteria.

Art of Fermentation - Asian Rice Brews

I appreciate you sharing more about your process, even though it differs from the basic recipe in this thread. I think one reason you end up with a lower ABV (prior to fractional freezing) is that you need to add much more water to the rice in order to mash your barley. This would, in theory, dilute your initial starting point, as opposed to the lower water:rice ratio required when using the yeast balls.

I would suspect he reached a lower ABV because he didn't have enough diastatic power. 1/2 pound barley isn't going to convert 25 pounds of rice. The mold in about a dozen yeast balls will, though.

 

[jak1010]

Nope. They're basically just in hibernation at that point. I use a mini-food processor and chop 'em to a powder. That helps the yeast and the rice mix.

Agreed. I've used a hammer, a can of beans, a spice grinder. No ill effects.

 

[sonofgrok]

I brewed 6 gallons using a 25 lb bag. However, I included a 1/2 lb of 2-row since rice starches need the enzymes to convert to sugar. In your recipe, you should include enzymes, which you can buy at the homebrew shop. It will give you much more wine and clear it up better. I also clarified the wine and it is a clear yellow.

I am in the process of fractional freezing. If anyone tries this, take out the syrup that sits on top, or bottom of the ice. The rice wine will come out dry this way. Keep the sugar syrup so that you can add back a little if you want to sweeten it up a bit. I've already tried fractional freezing on Apple Cider and Beer. Both are fantastic.

Cheers,

The rice yeast balls include the fungal saccharifiers. No additional enzymes required. And for the record I have cultured my yeast balls on media and they contain Rhizopus oryzae for saccharification. They aren't "just yeast".

 

[STStunner]

I got my first batch of sake started yesterday. I wound up with about 11-cups of rice out of a 5-pound bag. About how many days does it typically take to start seeing any noticeable activity? So far no signs of mold or any other activity, but I wasn't really expecting to see anything this early on.

 

[pdxal]

Usually the first sign of activity is that after a couple of days you should have liquid forming at the bottom of the fermentor due to the saccharification of the rice by the mold in the yeast balls. Be patient.

 

[STStunner]

Thanks for the info. As I said before, I wasn't really expecting to see anything after only a day and a half. But it's nice to know that I should begin to see a little progress in another day or two.