Making the Switch

[akdiesel]

I've done a number of partial mash extract batches and was planning on making the switch to all grain. I read that it can be done cheaply and expensively. My LHBS has an all grain setup with pot, false bottom, ball valve and temp gauge. Would a pre made setup be easier? Also what exactly is needed if I already have a Brewcraft homebrewer deluxe kit?

 

[muels]

If you are at all handy it is cheapest to do it yourself. You need a mash tun and a boil kettle big enough for the size batches you want to do. 10 gal igloo cooler, valve and fitting is between 50-100 (depending on how much you find the cooler for). Kettle prices will vary depend on size and whether you choose aluminum or stainless. You can get Weldless valve kits for the kettle for less than 30 bucks iirc from bargain fittings on line. Search the DIY forums for parts and instructions and do whatever you feel comfortable with by yourself, it's cheapest.

Edit: not trying to start a stainless vs aluminum argument. Plenty of threads you can research on that!!!

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[uncleleon]

I started ag with a 5gal cooler and 1 pot. I wouldn't recommend pouring strike and sparge water tho.

Point being, for starters you can use one vessel for HLT and kettle.

 

[doug293cz]

I'd recommend that you try brew in a bag (BIAB) for your first few all grain brews. You can then decide if you want to stay with BIAB, or go to three vessel AG. I am doing BIAB and have no intention of moving to three vessel. If you do decide to make a switch to three vessel, you can still make use of all your BIAB gear (with the possible exception of the bag).

The main limitation with the equipment you have is the 20 qt (5 gal) boil kettle (BK.) All you would need to do 2-1/2 to 3 gal all grain batches with BIAB is a bag that fits your BK. To do 5 gal batches, you would need a bigger BK. You could get by with a 10 gal BK for BIAB, but I would recommend a 15 gal. I had an 8 gal and it was too small for 5 gal batches of no sparge BIAB. I went with 15 gal when I upgraded.

wilserbrewer on this site is a popular supplier of custom made bags, but there are others that you can find on line as well.

Brew on

 

[The542]

I'd recommend saving for a system that you won't want to upgrade for a while(read years). Get a good of understanding of what size batches you want to do, and build around that. Many of us have spent money over and over again upgrading multiple times.
Craigslist and our "for sale" section can be your best friend to get the system you're after for far under msrp, but there you have to be patient.
Welcome to all grain, you'll love it.

 

[muels]

You only new 2 vessels for AG. The brew kettle can be the HLT. Search "do I need an HLT". You can collect your runnings in a bucket.


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[akdiesel]

Awesome responses. I currently make 5 gal batches. If possible I would like to stick to that size. Would that be about a 15 gal kettle? Can I use my little 5 gal kettle for anything?

 

[YellowRiver]

The cheap way to go all grain without BIAB is the Dennybrew way. My efficienacy would be better if I were more patient so Ive learned to add a small amount plus of fermentables.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

I use a 8 Gallon brewpot for 5.5 gallon batches and its really a bit small so definitely at least a 10 gallon. Your 5 gallon pot works for heating sparge water, making grist beer, or small experimental brews.

 

[doug293cz]

15 gal gives you a lot of flexibility that you wouldn't have with a 10 gal BK. If you decide to sparge, the smaller kettle can be used to heat water for that (it's what I use mine for.)

Brew on

 

[akdiesel]

Thanks Doug. Talking with my wife, who is pregnant and as such cant taste the delicious brew at the moment mentioned small batches may be better since it is just me drinking it now. So really all I would need is the bag to do BIAB?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks Doug. Talking with my wife, who is pregnant and as such cant taste the delicious brew at the moment mentioned small batches may be better since it is just me drinking it now. So really all I would need is the bag to do BIAB?

Yep, that's all you need in addition to what you already use to brew extract. Many people do BIAB with hardware store paint strainer bags, but I prefer the finer mesh voile fabric bags like Wilser makes. Ask your LHBS to run the grains thru the crusher twice to get better mash efficiency with BIAB.

Brew on

 

[tg123]

+1 for BIAB. I have a 10gal pot that I was using for extract and switching to BIAB was just purchasing a bag from the LHBS. One downside is having to lift the grain bag so look into something that you can use to keep it suspended while you drip & squeeze the juices out of the grains after the mash. Other than that, it's really simple and there's less to clean up.

 

[TexasWine]

Awesome responses. I currently make 5 gal batches. If possible I would like to stick to that size. Would that be about a 15 gal kettle? Can I use my little 5 gal kettle for anything?

I'd recommend BIAB too. I do 5 gallon BIAB batches in a 9 gallon kettle, but I do a sparge. I mash in the oven (don't have to worry about a single degree of temp drop) and boil on the stove top. Grain bills thus far have been 14 to 15 pounds and I use paint strainer bags.

It's super duper easy and I don't have any intention on changing. My brew days are around 2 to 2.5 hours from start to finish.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks Doug. Talking with my wife, who is pregnant and as such cant taste the delicious brew at the moment mentioned small batches may be better since it is just me drinking it now. So really all I would need is the bag to do BIAB?

I do a lot of small batches because it's just me drinking and I do them with just a paint strainer bag in my 5 gallon pot that I used for extract brewing. One thing that I added was a Corona style grain mill so I can mill my grains as I need them since I don't have an LHBS with a mill. That mill has probably paid for itself already because it lets me mill the grains fine so my efficiency is way up letting me use less grains to get the same OG. The other item was something most kitchens would have any way, a colander with a plastic bowl to set it in. I lift the bag out of the pot, let it drain for a few seconds, then slip the colander and bowl under the bag and set it down on my counter. That way I don't have to hold the bag of grains and as the wort collects in the bowl, I pick it up with the grains in the colander and using my thumbs to keep the grains from falling out, I dump the collected wort into the boil pot. If I was really careful, I could avoid all spills but I usually end up with a few drops to clean up.

 

[muels]

Just a reminder; it takes basically the same amount of time to do a 2.5 gallon batch as it does a 10 gallon. You still have to do the same steps for the same time. I'm not against small batches I just feel it's a better use of my time to get more beer out of the deal!!!


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[akdiesel]

I may be trying an all grain recipe soon. Now with BIAB what is the process? I see sparge and no sparge, is there a choice and if so what are the differences?

 

[RM-MN]

I may be trying an all grain recipe soon. Now with BIAB what is the process? I see sparge and no sparge, is there a choice and if so what are the differences?

If your pot is big enough to hold all the water plus the grains, use the full volume of water, heat it to the proper temperature for mashing and then put the bag in (with the heat off) and stir in the grains. I've been using a stiff wire whisk to avoid getting doughballs. When the mash period is over, pull out the bag of grains, let it drain, squeeze out any more wort that you want to and start heating to boil.

My pot is a little small so I start with less water and a different temperature to account for the smaller amount. I do the mash the same as the first example but when I pull the bag out, I don't have enough wort collected so I set the bag of grains inside a colander that is set in a bowl and pour water into the bag and collect the wort that comes out followed by squeezing the bag to get the rest out. This is the sparge step and while it isn't necessary if you have a big pot, I seem to get another 5% efficiency from doing it.

 

[akdiesel]

Oh okay. I read through your post and see you use the same setup as I will be. What size batches are you making? Also how do you figure out temps and grain needed since I know most recipes seem to be for 5 gal batches? Do you use Beersmith or similar software? I hadn't purchased it yet since I wanted to get some real input first.

Also how do you figure efficiency?

 

[doug293cz]

I may be trying an all grain recipe soon. Now with BIAB what is the process? I see sparge and no sparge, is there a choice and if so what are the differences?

If you are doing a batch size where all of the required water, and all of the grain will fit comfortably in the pot you have, then you should go with no sparge, as it has the fewest steps. The efficiency of no sparge is a little lower, but for a first timer the extra simplicity overrides that. If you can't get all the water + grain in the pot, then you will need to sparge to get the additional wort to make up the pre-boil volume. There is an easy to use calculator here that will tell you if everything fits or not.

No Sparge Process

1. Crush grains (fine or double crush preferred) if they are not pre-crushed
2. Heat all required water in BK to the temperature given by your favorite calculator
3. Place bag in BK and secure the top edge to the BK
4. Pour the grains into the bag and stir until all dough balls are broken up and mash temp has been reached (vigorous stirring can reduce the temp if too high)
5. (Optional) Add additional hot water or heat gently if temp is too low. For a first timer don't worry about 2-3º low
6. Cover the BK and optionally insulate (towels, sleeping bag, winter jacket, etc.)
7. Wait for mash completion (30 - 60 minutes)
8. Uncover BK and remove bag with grain. Drain over BK until flow is greatly diminished
9. Place bag in a colander (or something similar) in another pot to continue to drain
10. Begin heating BK to boil
11. (Optional) squeeze bag by pressing into colander to remove more wort. Use a couple of coffee mugs or something to press on the bag so you don't scald yourself
12. When bag drain is as complete as you are willing to wait for, add the extra wort to the BK
13. Proceed with boil and following steps, just like with extract

Batch Sparge Process

Steps are same as for no sparge except: Only a portion of the total water required goes into the BK prior to mashing. This is the strike volume, and would typically be 50-75% of the total water required. The linked calculator will tell you the maximum volume of strike water you can use without overflowing your BK (be sure to allow some empty space to avoid slopping.) Add the balance of the water to another vessel which the bag (with grain) will fit into. This is the sparge water. After you pull the grain bag out of the BK at mash completion, and as much draining as you have patience for, place the bag in the sparge water vessel and stir the grain. Then drain and squeeze the bag over the sparge vessel. Add the wort from the completed sparge to the BK.

Pour Sparge Process

Similar to batch sparge, you only put the strike volume into the BK prior to mashing. At completion of mash, after removing the bag from the BK, suspend the bag in a colander (or similar) over the BK or another vessel. Then slowly pour the sparge water over the bag. If you sparged over a separate vessel, then add the additional wort back into the BK.

Options

Most people heat their sparge water to 168-170º F, but there are reports of experiments that show using unheated sparge water is as effective as heated water. Do what you feel comfortable with.

You can improve the efficiency of sparging by squeezing the bag both before and after sparging, but it adds additional complication, and you may not feel it's worth it. The explanation of why a double squeeze is effective is a little involved, and won't be given here.

If you have questions about specific details of any of the steps, the folks around here would be happy to help. We would need specific information about just what extra equipment and facilities you have at your disposal in order to give the best advice.

Brew on:

 

[dkevinb]

doug293cz gives a good summary. I've done a couple of BIAB batches and so far it's been great. I will add that many people doing the no sparge process (like me) do the standard mash, then heat the kettle to 168F while stirring. Then you turn off the burner, cover the kettle, and wait 10 minutes for "mash-out". Some claim it improves efficiency. I don't have enough experience to argue one way or the other.

 

[doug293cz]

Oh okay. I read through your post and see you use the same setup as I will be. What size batches are you making? Also how do you figure out temps and grain needed since I know most recipes seem to be for 5 gal batches? Do you use Beersmith or similar software? I hadn't purchased it yet since I wanted to get some real input first.

Also how do you figure efficiency?

I use BeerSmith, and it does have the ability to do recipe scaling, as well as conversions between extract and all grain. Very powerful software, but it does have a learning curve, and costs $. There are tutorials available. There are also free on-line calculators, as well as free local computer based calculators available. HBT has a brewing software forum here if you want some ideas about what else is available.

Many of the programs (including BeerSmith) will do the efficiency calcs for you. And there are explanations of the math behind the efficiency calcs in the forums on HBT, as well as elsewhere on the net.

Brew on

 

[akdiesel]

I had considered the mobile software but also tossed around the full computer version since I'm known to swap phones and go between Android and iPhone.

Thanks for the walk through.