Made Belgian Candi syrup in the oven,...

[walther]

Hi,

I just tried making some Belgian Candi Syrup in the oven.
I think it went ok, but I have never brewed with syrup, so I have no idea what it is supposed to taste like
It mostly tastes like malt and biscuit, with no off flavours at all. Maybe a little bit of caramel. I tried adding a little to an ale, and it definitely got some Belgian character (although confusingly sweet).



The different colours are time in the oven.

Trial batch:
30g Dextrose
1 smidgen of Wyeast Nutrient
1/4 smidgen Potash (for baking)

Procedure:
Pre heated the bowl in the oven with the dry stuff to 230-245C ~ 450-470F
Add a bit a boiling water to dissolve the sugar
Waited 1-2h at the same temperature as above

(made som attempts with table sugar as well, it tasted fine, but lots of crystallisation)

 

[JohnSand]

Very cool.

 

[walther]

Just made a larger batch, and it went ok.
But heating the sugar in advance is a bad idea, as it melts together in a lump.

Mix the following all together, and then put it in the oven:

500g Dextrose
1 teaspoon Wyeast Nutrient (or DME)
1/2 teaspoon Potash (or same other alkaline agent)
1.5 dl boiling water

Wait until you have the desired color and taste.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

That is awesome! A couple of questions: what is the potash for? How long did your larger batch take in the oven?

 

[walther]

That is awesome! A couple of questions: what is the potash for? How long did your larger batch take in the oven?

Thanks,
The potash is there to make the solution alkaline. I used it, because it was what I had in stock for baking. I have read people using lye or lime? (not the fruit).
It takes 1-2h depending on desired color. It is a slow process, so you have plenty of time to evaluate color and taste.
The yeast nutrient is there as a protein source, you can also use DME. If you leave out this part, you end up with caramel instead

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've made syrup once so far, using DAP yeast nutrient as a source of nitrogen and also a bit of DME as a source of proteins, both help to create lots of flavors in the maillard reaction. TBH, most of this is way over my head but following some simple instructions, I managed to whip up a really tasty sugar #5 on my first try which I used to brew a delicious dubbel. Here is a lengthy thread about it that got me started.





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[walther]

Yes, that was also one of the many great threads I went through
But having made lots of hard candy together with the kids on the stove, I was looking for simpler method using an oven instead. I may put a controller on a micro oven, to better control the temperature.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Thanks. I’ll have to give this a try. I had stumbled across the other thread but like the simplicity of the oven idea, but to be fair I’ve only tried caramelizing lactose before. Which went ok. My wife makes caramels so maybe she could help me [emoji51]. Do either of you know what the alkalinity does for it? I’m just curious.

 

[walther]

Do either of you know what the alkalinity does for it? I’m just curious.

I don't. But I have seen somewhere that the process speeds up the more alkaline it is.

 

[madscientist451]

Thanks for the post, I'm thinking of running some experiments using your method, but changing up the ingredients. Dextrose, Beet Sugar, Demmara Sugar and Date sugar and honey are on my list. Then I'll have to brew 5 beers and compare the results....

 

[walther]

Thanks for the post, I'm thinking of running some experiments using your method, but changing up the ingredients. Dextrose, Beet Sugar, Demmara Sugar and Date sugar and honey are on my list. Then I'll have to brew 5 beers and compare the results....

I would love to hear the results of that !

I already tried table sugar (in Denmark I think it comes from beets). It tasted fine, but I got a lot of crystallisation. But maybe the method can be refined ?

 

[madscientist451]

I already tried table sugar (in Denmark I think it comes from beets). It tasted fine, but I got a lot of crystallisation. But maybe the method can be refined ?

Did you stir it while it was in the oven?

I recently bought Candi Syrup Inc D-180, its made in the USA and says it contains Beet Sugar, Date Sugar and Water. If it had anything else in in, wouldn't they have to show that on the label?

http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html

 

[walther]

Did you stir it while it was in the oven?

Yes, in the beginning as the water evaporates , it foams quite a bit. If you leave the foam, it will harden on the surface. So once in a while, I pushed it back down into suspension to dissolve again.

I think they have to put everything on, except spices. But they may invert the beet sugar to simple sugars before the maillard process ?

 

[rhys333]

Any updates on this oven method?

I found this video on YouTube. Glen just uses sugar. Great channel by the way.

 

[Hanglow]

I use the oven for invert, much easier than messing around with a pan on the hob.

Demerara, some water, lactic acid, heat on hob till dissolved then place in the oven at 120c until desired colour is reached. It takes longer than using a gas hob but that's fine by me. I check the oven temp to make sure it is accurate, don't trust your ovens dial.

 

[rhys333]

I use the oven for invert, much easier than messing around with a pan on the hob.

Demerara, some water, lactic acid, heat on hob till dissolved then place in the oven at 120c until desired colour is reached. It takes longer than using a gas hob but that's fine by me. I check the oven temp to make sure it is accurate, don't trust your ovens dial.

Sounds like a plan. What level of fermentability do you get with this method?

 

[rhys333]

I tried this tonight but without the water. Three hours later, nothing has happened except the sugar has browned. Trying again tomorrow with water added.

 

[rhys333]

Hmm. Well this isnt working out as planned. I added water this morning and tried baking again ar 275F as per instructions in the linked video. After the water evaporated it just crystallized and stayed the same for 3 hours. Any ideas why this might be happening?