Low FG due to scorching?

[amEIREcan]

I recently got an electric heating element for my boil kettle. The typical W shaped 2.4kw model. It boils perfectly. You know, that vigorous boil that is bubbling just right with no sign of boiling over. When I clean the kettle there is a light, sandy coloured film on the element that cleans off relatively easily. On sunday I made a Cascadian Dark Ale, 18 L batch. OG 1.069. I pitched with 4 L worth of WhiteLabs California V starter and it took off. There was a thick krausen on top in a matter of hours. The only thing is, it's been stubbornly sitting at 1.030 for a few days now. I had a few thoughts and I thought that maybe I scorched the wort, obliterated a good portion of sugars that now are not being eaten by the yeast. It's a CDA with .15kg roasted barley so of course it tastes a bit burnt so I can't tell by taste if it's been scorched. However I also thought if the sugars have been obliterated surely they wouldn't be registering on the hydrometer. If anyone has any thoughts I'd like to hear them. This is frustrating the hell out of me.

 

[thehaze]

I don't think scorching will do that. What's the rest of the recipe, mash temp., etc?

What yeast did you use? Maybe it needs a bit more heat to finish... some yeast like to have the temp. raised towards the end and it is good practice when brewing most styles.

 

[amEIREcan]

3.5 kg pale, 1.25 rye crystal, .5 crystal, .35 black malt, .15 rb. Mashed at 65C. California v yeast from Whitelabs. I left it to ferment at 18C. I can bump it up to 20C.

 

[thehaze]

That's 3.5 Kg ( 62.5 % ) of base malt and 2.1 Kg of specialty malt ( 37.5 % ), provided rye rystal is indeed Crystal Rye malt, which is a crystal/caramel malt, with very low diastatic power.

I would try to warm it up and see what happens in the next 3-5 days. But there is a possibility it is done at this point. That only puts you at only 55% attenuation with the yeast, but could be explained by the high amount of unfermentables in the recipe.

Some sugar in the boil would have helped. But try to warm it up and see if you can make it attenuate a bit more. I don't know if it is too late to throw some US-05/Nottingham ( maybe half a sachet ) in there to help with the attenuation.

 

[amEIREcan]

Sorry, was looking at the old recipe. 71% pale and 10% rye crystal malt. I was expecting a slightly higher FG like 1.014 at best. But not 1.030! I have a pack of nottingham that I'm going to toss in. The beer doesn't taste bad and it's for a competition so I might have to bottle it and hope my other entry wins. (Not to toot my own horn but it's pretty damn good)

 

[thehaze]

Still, 29% specialty malt might be pushing it, but I am not one to say, as I have brewed a dark something, with 35% specialty malt ( 9.2% ABV ), but got 70% attenuation. It was OK in the beginning, but months after was much better.

You got nothing to lose by pitching some Notti and see it through.

 

[amEIREcan]

Do you think it could be an aeration issue? I let the wort splash at the bottom to get mixed up but beyond that I didn't do much else. It looks like I can make an aeration set for not too much money.

 

[thehaze]

I don't think so... when I transfer the wort from the kettle to fermenter, it splashes from around 20-40 cm and it does foam and it seems to aerate well. Never had an issue with this process, but you can definitely aerate better, just so you can get that out of the way.

The beer did not have such a high OG, so I will take a guess and say aeration was not the problem here. More like grainbill, mash temp and possibly cell viability/number.

 

[Smellyglove]

If you're using a refractometer for measuring (even though I doubt it) you should switch to a hydrometer.

Second. boiling hard will make the wort more unfermentable, than a softer boil. There is no need for a "vigorous" boil imo.

 

[amEIREcan]

I only use a refractometer for quick run off gravity checks. And the boil wasn't like it was jumping out of the pot. The bubbles would rise maybe an inch and a half from the liquid level. With that being said it was concentrated to pretty much above the element. The rest of the wort wasn't bubbling

 

[augiedoggy]

I have never heard of a typical 2.4kw "W" shaped element? it seems your in Europe or Ireland? of somewhere outside of the US despite your cryptic username so im assuming thats why but do you have a link so we can determine watt density? a tan coating that cleans off suggests no scorching.

My thoughts are the high amount of specialty malt causing your woes as well..

 

[augiedoggy]

Second. boiling hard will make the wort more unfermentable, than a softer boil. There is no need for a "vigorous" boil imo.

while I agree a vigerous boil usually has no purpose (unless your aiming for a specific boil off rate), As a person who only did softer boils with a 4000w element for years and switched to a 5500w element over a year ago, I have done many of both soft and hardboil (for more boiloff to correct gravity) and Honestly have seen zero correlation between this and fermentibility in real world practice.. Is there any testing you can reference about this as im interested in reading more on it?

 

[shoengine]

while I agree a vigerous boil usually has no purpose (unless your aiming for a specific boil off rate), As a person who only did softer boils with a 4000w element for years and switched to a 5500w element over a year ago, I have done many of both soft and hardboil (for more boiloff to correct gravity) and Honestly have seen zero correlation between this and fermentibility in real world practice.. Is there any testing you can reference about this as im interested in reading more on it?

Yeah, that is the first time I've heard that. I produce a vigorous boil every time (unless I am trying to limit boiloff) and never had an issue hitting FG. Or exceeding it.

M

 

[Yooper]

You have a high SG, not a low SG. You would be expecting a lower Fg, like 1.014 than you have now at 1.030.

Did you check your hydrometer is plain water, just to make sure the paper hasn’t slipped inside? Also, how does it taste? At 1.030, it should taste sweet and not quite “right”.

 

[amEIREcan]

I have never heard of a typical 2.4kw "W" shaped element? it seems your in Europe or Ireland? of somewhere outside of the US despite your cryptic username so im assuming thats why but do you have a link so we can determine watt density? a tan coating that cleans off suggests no scorching.

My thoughts are the high amount of specialty malt causing your woes as well..

http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/kettle-elements/95-24kw-kettle-element-kit.html

I'm an American and my wife is Irish. Eire (pronounced, air uh) is Ireland in Gaelic and it fits perfectly inside american

 

[Smellyglove]

while I agree a vigerous boil usually has no purpose (unless your aiming for a specific boil off rate), As a person who only did softer boils with a 4000w element for years and switched to a 5500w element over a year ago, I have done many of both soft and hardboil (for more boiloff to correct gravity) and Honestly have seen zero correlation between this and fermentibility in real world practice.. Is there any testing you can reference about this as im interested in reading more on it?

Sorry I don't have any sources to give you. All I can say is when I started brewing on the setup I'm currently brewing on, I went for a hard boil and controlled boil off. My "standard" beers ticked in a few points above where they should. I went to the step where I actually mailed John Palmer, he said to turn down my boil rate, and maybe there were some other factors too, but I didn't switch anything, and it worked.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's interesting that John would say that... I know he's an advocate of 90 minute boils to remove DMS...

 

[augiedoggy]

http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/kettle-elements/95-24kw-kettle-element-kit.html

I'm an American and my wife is Irish. Eire (pronounced, air uh) is Ireland in Gaelic and it fits perfectly inside american

yeah that looks to NOT be a low watt density element let alone Ultra low watt density element. I would be cautious with using those to not do things like turn them off and then back on for more than a few seconds without really stirring up the wort first as protiens can easily burn onto them.

 

[Hanglow]

I use that element and its fine. It's easily the most popular homebrew element in the uk. I've also used these ones from kettles which are 3kw, they certainly did scorch depending on the wort now promptly relegated to my HLT

 

[amEIREcan]

I use that element and its fine. It's easily the most popular homebrew element in the uk. I've also used these ones from kettles which are 3kw, they certainly did scorch depending on the wort now promptly relegated to my HLT

http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/kettle-elements/290-3kw-ss-ripple-element-kit.html

I have a keg I found on the side of the road that I want to put one of these into.