Low efficiency

[GrogNerd]

had to double-check my brew log. my efficiency did jump to almost 80% on my next-to-last brew and it was the first time I have added acid malt to the grist. 2oz (1.3% of grain bill). used Primo water from Wally World, added no minerals.

last brew was 99% smoked wheat, 1% acid malt and got 75%.

can't argue that pH is NOT a factor in efficiency. that acid malt also helped with color problems and hop aroma & flavor

 

[dobe12]

can't argue that pH is NOT a factor in efficiency. that acid malt also helped with color problems and hop aroma & flavor

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all. The main point that keeps being echoed is that crush is the main culprit in low efficiency (not the only culprit) and the easiest to diagnose and remedy.

 

[GrogNerd]

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all. The main point that keeps being echoed is that crush is the main culprit in low efficiency (not the only culprit) and the easiest to diagnose and remedy.

which I said yesterday

my point was that even with a default crush from myLHBS, my efficiency jumped 5 & 10 points by pH adjustment alone

I didn't realize this until someone mentioned it in this thread and I went back and checked my brew log.

I might need more brews under my belt with the acid malt addition before I'm fully convinced.

 

[Oceantendency]

Have you tested your tap water? Most Home Depots have a water testing kit for free, or you can check a report from your local municipality. I mentioned the water cause pH, mineral content, and base grain can be greatly affected. I don't do additions to my water, but mostly use Spring or RO water. My water at home is pretty hard, so unless the style needs hard water, I spend a few bucks on RO/spring water. It's worth it. Consistency is the key, I typically get 74-76% eff and totally happy with it. Do you test your Ph during the Mash? I typically will test my water prior to adding my grain and a 5-10 min into the mash. Glad you took good notes, that probably saved you a few brews to find that clue. How long do you batch sparge for? Is your last runnings pretty clear each time?

 

[s89bunton]

Have you tested your tap water? Most Home Depots have a water testing kit for free, or you can check a report from your local municipality. I mentioned the water cause pH, mineral content, and base grain can be greatly affected. I don't do additions to my water, but mostly use Spring or RO water. My water at home is pretty hard, so unless the style needs hard water, I spend a few bucks on RO/spring water. It's worth it. Consistency is the key, I typically get 74-76% eff and totally happy with it. Do you test your Ph during the Mash? I typically will test my water prior to adding my grain and a 5-10 min into the mash. Glad you took good notes, that probably saved you a few brews to find that clue. How long do you batch sparge for? Is your last runnings pretty clear each time?

Honestly I have never tested my water(oops). I live in ohio where I'm told the water is pretty good. I suppose the reason I never tested was because when I first got into extract brewing I was told not to use hose water and if it was safe to drink it was ok to brew with. So I never paid it much thought until now. I had always seen people use ph stabilizers in videos and test the water, but usually they would say that they live out west where the water is goofy. Honestly it could be my water. I'm using plane city tap water.


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[GrogNerd]

our county water varies depending on season and weather. when it rains, they dump additional chemicals and it affects the supply for about a week.

too much variance for me, so I'm buying my water

 

[s89bunton]

Also my sparge takes me about 45 minutes to an hour. I'll let it sit for 10 minutes then stir. Do that 3 or 4 times. This is something the owner of my local shop told me to do. Then I vorloft until clear. Let it drain very slow.


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[Yooper]

Also my sparge takes me about 45 minutes to an hour. I'll let it sit for 10 minutes then stir. Do that 3 or 4 times. This is something the owner of my local shop told me to do. Then I vorloft until clear. Let it drain very slow.


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You don't have to do that. If you're batch sparging, you stir in the water, stir really hard, and then simply vorlauf and drain. You don't have to let it sit, do it in multiple additions, or do it slowly. The beauty of the way it works is that it is quick, unlike fly sparging.

I haven't lived in Ohio in a long time, but I know that in Eastern Ohio, from Cleveland to East Liverpool, the water is not good for brewing. It's too high in bicarbonate and the folks I know in that area who brew buy RO water or have their own systems.

 

[GrogNerd]

You don't have to do that. If you're batch sparging, you stir in the water, stir it like it owes you money, and then simply vorlauf and drain. You don't have to let it sit, do it in multiple additions, or do it slowly. The beauty of the way it works is that it is quick, unlike fly sparging.

I haven't lived in Ohio in a long time, but I know that in Eastern Ohio, from Cleveland to East Liverpool, the water is not good for brewing. It's too high in bicarbonate and the folks I know in that area who brew buy RO water or have their own systems.

fixed that for ya

 

[s89bunton]

You don't have to do that. If you're batch sparging, you stir in the water, stir really hard, and then simply vorlauf and drain. You don't have to let it sit, do it in multiple additions, or do it slowly. The beauty of the way it works is that it is quick, unlike fly sparging.



I haven't lived in Ohio in a long time, but I know that in Eastern Ohio, from Cleveland to East Liverpool, the water is not good for brewing. It's too high in bicarbonate and the folks I know in that area who brew buy RO water or have their own systems.

That's good to know. I'm brewing on Friday I will try that.


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[daman]

I hope this is correct thread to ask a question about getting a sugar from malts.
I read somewhere, that the main conversion is happening in the very first 30 minutes or so. So my question would be: If I would steep the malts for a 30 minutes in 55 C for better head and after that for another hour in 65 C for fermentable sugars. The first 30 minutes would be in 55 C, so is this gonna work out badly for efficiency? Does this mean, that the beer will have better head, but lower OG ?

 

[Yooper]

I hope this is correct thread to ask a question about getting a sugar from malts.
I read somewhere, that the main conversion is happening in the very first 30 minutes or so. So my question would be: If I would steep the malts for a 30 minutes in 55 C for better head and after that for another hour in 65 C for fermentable sugars. The first 30 minutes would be in 55 C, so is this gonna work out badly for efficiency? Does this mean, that the beer will have better head, but lower OG ?

No. The OG would be the same. Step mashing generally isn't necessary (or even advisable) with today's malts, but it can be done.

You definitely don't want to hold the mash at 55C (131F), as that is not going to give you sugars. You want a saccrification rest for that. The 55C mash would break up all the proteins, destroying your beers head, but not convert starch into maltose.

Start with 65C and if you want to step mash and do a second saccrification rest you could go to 68C after that.

I'd personally skip doing the step mash, and do a single infusion mash at 66-67C for most beers. It does depend on what you are making.

 

[GrogNerd]

ok, my mistake

unless this info is updated in current editions of How to Brew

typical grain bill wouldn't need the protein rest, other than the exceptions Palmer lists

The typical Protein Rest at 120 - 130°F is used to break up proteins which might otherwise cause chill haze and can improve the head retention. This rest should only be used when using moderately-modified malts, or when using fully modified malts with a large proportion (>25%) of unmalted grain, e.g. flaked barley, wheat, rye, or oatmeal. Using this rest in a mash consisting mainly of fully modified malts would break up the proteins responsible for body and head retention and result in a thin, watery beer. The standard time for a protein rest is 20 - 30 minutes.

Grog.Learn.Read.Now

 

[daman]

55C Destroyng my beer heads? I thought that protein rest is exactly for bigger and stronger head, as GrogNerd wrote.

Well All I want to do is to get a full body and big strong head in American Pale Ale, so I am wondering what are the main factors for those components in beer.

 

[daman]

wow, so the protein rest is completely opposite thing from what I am trying to do??

 

[GrogNerd]

looks like it.

unless your grain is "moderately-modified" or >25% of your grain bill is unmalted

lots of good info here

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

55C Destroyng my beer heads? I thought that protein rest is exactly for bigger and stronger head, as GrogNerd wrote.

Well All I want to do is to get a full body and big strong head in American Pale Ale, so I am wondering what are the main factors for those components in beer.

The body can be manipulated by the temp of your mash to give you light, medium and high, lower temp=fuller body. The head can be easy manipulated by your choice of specialty grains in addition to your base grain. Try some carapils or maybe some caramel 120, but watch how many srm's your adding to keep the color in that style of beers range.

 

[daman]

Thank you all!
One more question: It seems logical for me, that Gravity should play big part in "body building", I mean it sounds quite right, that using lower attenuation yeasts will add some body. I am planning to use Danstar Windsor for my APA, which has ~ 0,68 attenuation, it will lead me to a higher FG, something like 1,019 or so, which I think should add more body.
Is this right? The higher FG, the more close to full body you are going?

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

The higher FG, the more close to full body you are going?

Essentially ya, thats another way to affect body. Many variables effect body. When people describe body they use terms like "sweet, dry, firm, smooth, etc.". A higher attenuating yeast will ferment out more leaving you a thinner beer and vice versa. I would focus on your mash process and specialty grains first tho. Its the easiest start. Add some crystal and carapils to that apa, you wont regret it.

Filtering/fining agents can reduce body if used in high amount, for that reason i usually dont filter and only use whirfloc or gelatin.

 

[daman]

Yeah, I am going to use almost 10% Viena Malt, and 5% Crystal Malt, also I am looking for a creamy, smooth feeling I guess will mash at 65C

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

Yeah, I am going to use almost 10% Viena Malt, and 5% Crystal Malt, also I am looking for a creamy, smooth feeling I guess will mash at 65C

Sounds good

 

[s89bunton]

UPDATE
I'm brewing a "Ranger" clone today. I had the local shop double mill my grain. Here are some pictures just wanted see if anyone thought it was ground too fine.


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[s89bunton]

Just got done with my mash and sparge. No stuck sparge. According to the calculator I used I got 74.45% efficiency. So looks like the double mill fixed the problem. I didn't even mess with the pH of my water.


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[GrogNerd]

Just got done with my mash and sparge. No stuck sparge. According to the calculator I used I got 74.45% efficiency. So looks like the double mill fixed the problem. I didn't even mess with the pH of my water.


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:rockin:

 

[s89bunton]

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here but I calculated 74% efficiency but my original gravity was 1.051 and the recipe said it should be 1.063. Any thoughts?


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[PHDrunk]

Sounds like the math is off somewhere... You could post the recipe. I assume you corrected all gravity measurements for temperature?


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[DesignatedDrinker]

Is 1.051 your pre or post boil? Also list the recipes grain and amounts used.

 

[s89bunton]

That was post boil


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[s89bunton]

Sounds like the math is off somewhere... You could post the recipe. I assume you corrected all gravity measurements for temperature?


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Yes I corrected measurements for temp.


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[DesignatedDrinker]

S89bunton, how many gals did you collect preboil? From the mash that is, not top off water. Since 1.051 was your post, well take 10 away for your pre.

Take 41*gal of wort from mash

Take that number and divid by 387.

Thats your eff, based off the recipe you listed. If you collected 6gals, it would be 79%