adamranders
Well-Known Member
Before now I've been milling at my lhbs, but now that I can mill at home I most likely will be conditioning before milling.
Low bucks motorized grain mill
- Thread starter J_Hanna
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Before now I've been milling at my lhbs, but now that I can mill at home I most likely will be conditioning before milling.
While on eBay looking for a wort chiller for my 15 gallon kettle I stumbled across this interesting grain mill for $400...
It uses a very similar motor to the AC motor I started with on this project, a Molon EM5R-153-1
The one I was using was a Molon EM5R-63-1
The motors are the same physical size, the 153-1 runs at 82 RPM ( looks like a speed reducing chain drive, more torque at 82 then at 153? ) the 153-1 is rated .85A the 63 RPM 63-1 is rated at .33A.
Man I wish I could get my hands on one of those 153-1s!
BTW, the Molon EM5R-63-1 I started with did work okay, albeit kinda slow.
I suspect that the main factor using any motor is what mill is attached to it, my cereal killer spins super easy and only has the one drive roller, that's probably why my setup worked. I also left the gap at the factory setting, I don't know whether or not it would continue to work if I set it tighter. Since the factory setting is about the right crush I don't plan on doing any experiements along those lines.
It uses a very similar motor to the AC motor I started with on this project, a Molon EM5R-153-1
The one I was using was a Molon EM5R-63-1
The motors are the same physical size, the 153-1 runs at 82 RPM ( looks like a speed reducing chain drive, more torque at 82 then at 153? ) the 153-1 is rated .85A the 63 RPM 63-1 is rated at .33A.
Man I wish I could get my hands on one of those 153-1s!
BTW, the Molon EM5R-63-1 I started with did work okay, albeit kinda slow.
I suspect that the main factor using any motor is what mill is attached to it, my cereal killer spins super easy and only has the one drive roller, that's probably why my setup worked. I also left the gap at the factory setting, I don't know whether or not it would continue to work if I set it tighter. Since the factory setting is about the right crush I don't plan on doing any experiements along those lines.
It's hard to say because I'm guessing the em5r-63-1 is probably out of production which is why it is not listed anywhere, but I'm guessing they are the same motor at different rated speeds. I'm guessing the 153-1 runs at 153 rpm, but looses torque, so if it is reduced down with the gear it does supply more torque. I think that original website we got the 63 from stated it was 10 in-lb, which I could not get any math to come out correctly to corroborate. According to this page: http://www.molon.com/standard_ac_reversible_motors.html I would estimate the 63 should be close to the 30 in-lb of the 56-1m, maybe a little less (don't have my notes in front of me but 27 in-lb sticks out for some reason as what I got). By going off that chart, wide open the 153 is about 10 in-lb, which may be too little (never found any concrete evidence of exactly how much is needed, probably a function of number of rollers, roller size, gap setting, grain type and size). I bet if you were to get your hands on one, if you were to open them both up the only difference would be the sizing of the internal gears. Either way an interesting find. Still happy with my 12v motor. I have the 63-1 shelved at the moment, trying to think of a use for it. (Make a conveyor belt to add grain to mlt? 
) Looking around at different motors for some kicks, both motors that I got were just about given away at the prices I got them for. Too bad some people were having trouble with the 12v ones.
) Looking around at different motors for some kicks, both motors that I got were just about given away at the prices I got them for. Too bad some people were having trouble with the 12v ones.
adamranders
Well-Known Member
So I ran my first batch of grain through my mill today and am as happy as a pig in it's own filth to say that it worked flawlessly! Tore through 7lbs of 2row like nothing. Very happy with my setup, and thank you guys for putting this info all together here, and those that guinea pigged to figure it out.
Super, one more in the plus column!
Looking at the pictures you posted I see you improved the design by adding some addition support for the motor and building an awesome stand, very nice!
Unless I missed it you might put a picture up of how you wired in your ATX P/S, that seems to be a gray area.
adamranders
Well-Known Member
I clipped and terminated all the wires except the grounds(black), 12v(yellow), and remote?(green). Then clipped/terminated wires, I opened the PSU and stuffed them inside making sure they weren't going to cause problems with anything including the fan. One ground and the remote wired to the toggle switch (I tried to get it to light up but the remote wire carries too little current). All the remaining grounds got bound together to 14 gauge wire( I split them to three wires then bound them again to one as I didn't have any heat shrink that would fit all of them at once but the end goal is the same). Same as above for the 12v wires but only bound once as there were far less of them. Used a dremmel as recommend to cut away around the terminals on the motor, and attached a few spade connectors to finish it off.
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adamranders
Well-Known Member
I think the biggest thing is to get a single 12v rail PSU. You don't want to bind multiple 12v rails as the will likely have different amps and you don't want to mix that. The other thing is to check for remote wires, in researching psu wiring via Google I found that there are a few different setups that are used to determine that the psu is attached to a motherboard and/or additional devices. These remote wires need to have current moving to have the various rails run full power. And they are not all green wires so you may have to dig a bit online for your supply's layout and have a good multimeter on hand to test with.
adamranders
Well-Known Member
And J_Hanna, and Spellman, if you're ever in Milwaukee I owe you both several beers. Thanks for putting this thread together, and answering questions along the way. As a side note, the first batch of grain is also for my first sour.
That's a good call on getting a single rail PSU, don't remember if that got covered before or not. J_Hanna is the man, without his find on these and starting the thread, I'd probably still me slumped over a bucket with a drill.
Just-a-sip
Well-Known Member
adamranders
Well-Known Member
That's nice. Good job.
Nice!
Yeah, those three roller mills need a lot more power than that seat motor can deliver, glad you are back in business!
+1
Huaco
Well-Known Member
Going to read this thread later... Sub'd
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
Just ordered the worm drive, Lovejoy couplers, switch, and spider fitting (how is the spider fitting 4x the cost of the couplers?!).
I've got a 12V 300W (19A) ATX power supply I'm not using, so I'm going to wire it up once the motor arrives and see if it works.
I've got a cereal killer grain mill I got for Christmas. Hopefully this power supply will work with it.
I'll update here once I get it all put together (hopefully everything will show up this week so I can work on it next weekend).
I've got a 12V 300W (19A) ATX power supply I'm not using, so I'm going to wire it up once the motor arrives and see if it works.
I've got a cereal killer grain mill I got for Christmas. Hopefully this power supply will work with it.
I'll update here once I get it all put together (hopefully everything will show up this week so I can work on it next weekend).
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
And I just found this on Amazon. If my ATX power supply doesn't work, I'm going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D7CWSCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D7CWSCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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I was in Harbor Freight last week and saw this little variable speed bench grinder and wondered if it might work, it's 1.3 amps which I'd guess would be about .2 horse so it probably stalls out pretty easy.
I've looked at small bench grinder motors before but this the only cheap variable speed model I've seen so far. It'd be about $42 after the usual 20% off coupon.
I've looked at small bench grinder motors before but this the only cheap variable speed model I've seen so far. It'd be about $42 after the usual 20% off coupon.
I've made a blog with all of my DIY projects including yet another power supply option..
http://ramrev.blogspot.com/2015/07/low-bucks-grain-mill-part-3-dc-power.html
http://ramrev.blogspot.com/2015/07/low-bucks-grain-mill-part-3-dc-power.html
BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
I placed my order based on this thread as well. So far I'm into the project:
Cereal Killer - $99.00
Motor - $22.65
Lovejoys - $14.07
Overkill ATX PSU - $0.00
Wires and Bolts - $0.00 (hopefully)
I'm debating the dedicated stand right now... I'm running short on floor space and it might be better if I just kept everything confined to a bucket-top approach.
Great innovative idea, but...
That grinder spins way too fast: 10000 rpm at full power. That full power is not a lot to start with, and you lose more in the snake, if it doesn't burn up at even 10% of that speed.
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
I'm planning a dedicated stand, so that I have everything collected together in one place. Right now I weigh in one spot, collect weighed grain in another, Mill somewhere else, and store my mill, bucket, and drill in 3 separate spots. With a cart, it's all contained together and I never have to look for anything.
I just assumed that since it has a 0 to 10000 rpm variable speed motor you could run it around the 300 rpm sweet spot, it would be tricky to actually tell what rpm it was turning at but a little trial and error should get you in the ballpark.
I don't think anybody would seriously consider connecting it via the flex shaft. Most people would remove the flex shaft and both grinding wheels and connect a lovejoy to the one of the 2 output shafts.
As far as power goes the original Molon AC motor I used worked okay and it was only .33 amps, the grinder is 1.3 amps so it might work fine, or it might not. I'm pretty happy with the DC motor so I won't be buying one to find out.
I just assumed that since it has a 0 to 10000 rpm variable speed motor you could run it around the 300 rpm sweet spot, it would be tricky to actually tell what rpm it was turning at but a little trial and error should get you in the ballpark.
I don't think anybody would seriously consider connecting it via the flex shaft. Most people would remove the flex shaft and both grinding wheels and connect a lovejoy to the one of the 2 output shafts.
As far as power goes the original Molon AC motor I used worked okay and it was only .33 amps, the grinder is 1.3 amps so it might work fine, or it might not. I'm pretty happy with the DC motor so I won't be buying one to find out.
I looked at your blog, you've got some interesting projects!
Reading a bit closer I now understand better what you're after.
My HF 1/2" heavy duty low speed drill I use on my Monster Mill (MM, 1.5" rollers) has a 7.5A motor (110V). I run it at about 1/3 to half the speed and certainly starts to groan and pull amps when milling. The speed is probably controlled through a simple Triac so it won't supply the full 800W, but possibly 250-400W at those speeds and at maximum torque. That's around 2.3-3.6A.
It would be hard to believe that 1.3A bench grinder motor could pull a roller mill especially at highly reduced speeds. My old 200W drill couldn't, would stall and just hum.
I'm sure you're right. After thinking about it for a few minutes I believe the Molox only worked because it had a gearbox, the free spinning small bench grinder would probably bog down very easily at 300 rpm.
That little bench grinder looks interesting though, I'd really like to find a use for it other than chewing up pocket knives.
That little bench grinder looks interesting though, I'd really like to find a use for it other than chewing up pocket knives.
I just assumed that since it has a 0 to 10000 rpm variable speed motor you could run it around the 300 rpm sweet spot, it would be tricky to actually tell what rpm it was turning at but a little trial and error should get you in the ballpark.
I don't think anybody would seriously consider connecting it via the flex shaft. Most people would remove the flex shaft and both grinding wheels and connect a lovejoy to the one of the 2 output shafts.
As far as power goes the original Molon AC motor I used worked okay and it was only .33 amps, the grinder is 1.3 amps so it might work fine, or it might not. I'm pretty happy with the DC motor so I won't be buying one to find out.
Even 300 RPM is too fast. You need to mill at about 175-180 RPM.
Sorry to offend, 300 rpm was the speed I was trying to set my drill press to for an unrelated project; it just got stuck in my mind. The last time I thought about the mill project was about a year ago and my memory isn't what it used to be...
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
Well. The Lovejoy couplings and spider showed up today. Neither of the couplings are the right size, and Amazon sent the wrong spider size.
I'm going to stop by Grainger tomorrow to see if they have the right sizes in stock. Hopefully I can get all 3 pieces tomorrow. If not, it will just have to wait until next week.
Sigh.
I ordered my Lovejoys from one of their local distributors. The spiders were the least costly item.
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
The reason this spider was so expensive is because they sent me the wrong one. The Lovejoy couplers are size L050. The spider they sent was L099. It was at least double the size it should have been.
I'm returning the spider and at least one of the couplers. I've got a couple more on order from Grainger to try. I'm probably going to have to grind down the motor shaft. the 7/16" coupler is too small, and the 1/2" coupler is too big.
Have you looked at metric sizes?
I'm using a 11mm coupler on the cereal killer, and a 12mm on the seat motor shaft.
I forget if I posted anything about this or not, but I broke my car seat motor about a year ago. I had some red wheat that it had an awful time with and was stalling my 16a atx supply. I didn't have a reverse wired in and I got the bright idea that if I manually turn the motor in reverse a little it would dislodge the stuck grain and I would be able to continue milling. Well it dislodged it, but I also stripped the internal gears on the motor and ruined it. User error, my fault. I then hooked up the molon motor and have been using that since. Every time I brew I think, oh I should get another seat motor and try again, but never get around to it. This new cheap power supply has renewed my interest and I just might get around to doing it now!
I forget if I posted anything about this or not, but I broke my car seat motor about a year ago. I had some red wheat that it had an awful time with and was stalling my 16a atx supply. I didn't have a reverse wired in and I got the bright idea that if I manually turn the motor in reverse a little it would dislodge the stuck grain and I would be able to continue milling. Well it dislodged it, but I also stripped the internal gears on the motor and ruined it. User error, my fault. I then hooked up the molon motor and have been using that since. Every time I brew I think, oh I should get another seat motor and try again, but never get around to it. This new cheap power supply has renewed my interest and I just might get around to doing it now!
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
I'm checking metric sizes on Monday. Hopefully those will fit without any adjustments.
One of mine required a keyed metric (motor) & std non keyed (MM 3 roller mill). Lovejoy had both.
BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
Well, I also received the wrong spider, but it was 100% my fault. A quick trip to Grainger and $3 fixed that problem.
I have all the parts now, just need to find time to work on piecing it together, hopefully I will have time before this weekend. There's 80# of grain burning a hole in my pocket!
![IMG_3051[1].jpg](https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/data/attach/294/294491-IMG-3051-1-.jpg "IMG_3051[1].jpg")
BeardedIdiot
Well-Known Member
FYI, anyone using the car seat motor, you can buy the correct electrical adapter on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RW3BZWA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It's $14.78 right now. Not as cheap as a couple of spade bits, but its got nice long leads, and a locking clasp, and you don't have to alter the motor in any way.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RW3BZWA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It's $14.78 right now. Not as cheap as a couple of spade bits, but its got nice long leads, and a locking clasp, and you don't have to alter the motor in any way.
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BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
Victory is mine!
http://youtu.be/CP7_ZC6w304
http://youtu.be/CP7_ZC6w304
Huaco
Well-Known Member
Ok @BeardedBrews @BeardedIdiot. I know you one of you had a mix-up on your Love Joy's. What sizes did you end up using? What are you using for your power supply?
BeardedBrews
Well-Known Member
I'm using these
11mm no keyway for the cereal killer
12mm with keyway (because I can't read) for the seat motor
Basically, you want 11mm and 12mm, or get pretty close with the cheapest available standard size.
I did L050 couplings which seem about right, and like an idiot, I initially ordered the L075 spider (too big). Grainger hooked me up for $3.00 on a correct L050 spider, and it turns out I could have just gotten the couplings from them too.
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