Low-alcohol Doppelbock?

[Johntodd]

Hi! I love my homebrewed doppelbock; it's the best beer I've ever had!

But it has a lot of alcohol, so I can only drink about 2 pints over the course of an entire evening. That gets me completely inebriated.

So, I'd like a lower-alcohol doppelbock. Same sweet malty goodness, same caramel-coffee-chocolate-toast flavors, same thick body, lower ABV.

Is this even possible? Don't the very things I like about it also cause the alcohol to be there in the first place?

I do only extracts.

Thanks!
-Johntodd

 

[Joewalla88]

You could try making a schwarzbier. They're dark and malty, and lower abv than a dopplebock. Not exactly a bock beer, but they're really good.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Since you only do extracts, I don't know how many options you'd have to do that. If you cut the extracts with the same amount of water, you'd get less alcohol, but you'd lose the flavor and mouthfeel expected for the style.

If you use a less attenuating yeast, you'd end up with an overly sweet finished product.

So maybe you can do a combination of both. Cut the extract and use a less attenuating yeast to preserve some of the mouthfeel. You may also be able to throw some unfermentables into it to keep the mouthfeel the same. Also, you'd probably have to cut the hops down too to keep the IBUs the same. I'd recommend using a design program to help you out.

If you switched to all grain eventually, you'd probably be able to do what you're looking to do by using a higher mash temperature with a smaller grain bill (just fyi hip pocket info for later).

 

[Johntodd]

Ahhh ... All-Grain. Capital letters FTW! Someday I'll have a Grainfather ... or whatever is available in the year 2020.

Perhaps some oats? Get the thickness and be unfermentable?

I don't care if it's true to style, as long as it's exactly the same. LOL!

Thanks!
-Johntodd

 

[user 19629]

Wouldn't a lower alcohol dopplebock be a bock?

 

[brewbama]

Definition:
Doppelbock (literally "double bock") is a stronger and usually darker version of the Bavarian Bockbier. It is exceptionally malty, with very little bitterness. Standard Doppelbocks may have as much as 7% alcohol by volume. In the strongest versions (around 10 to 13%), you can actually taste the alcohol.

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Doppelbock.html

 

[Johntodd]

I want the flavor and mouthfeel of a doppelbock with the alcohol of a session beer.

This may be impossible.

 

[brewbama]

You could add non fermentable sugars to increase the viscosity (mouthfeel). "Since lactose is a non fermentable sugar if added it will help with the body as well as residual sweetness. Lactose does not dissolve easily in beer either. It should be added in small amounts to the beer to help it dissolve faster. Most of the time that this is added in beers, it will be for a, “Milk Stout” beer. It leaves a bit of an increased mouthfeel as well."

https://www.jaysbrewing.com/2012/06/05/the-art-of-making-of-adding-sugars-to-your-beer/

You could mash at 154-156*F in an effort to get higher viscosity as well

 

[TX_Brewing]

I want the flavor and mouthfeel of a doppelbock with the alcohol of a session beer.

This may be impossible.

Not impossible, but not easy either!

 

[Joewalla88]

Maltodextrin can be used for adding body and mouthfeel without having much effect on flavor. Maybe that would help.

 

[Johntodd]

Would there be any sense to brewing/fermenting as per the recipe, and the heating the finished beer in an open kettle to drive off some alcohol? I read a thread about that somewhere around here.

There would be no boil, since alcohol vapes out a lot cooler than water.

 

[Joewalla88]

Wouldn't a lower alcohol dopplebock be a bock?

I think they're still typically stronger than what most would consider to be a session beer.

 

[Johntodd]

Anybody ever use grocery store extracts in flavoring beer? I wouldn't be above adding a caramel extract and some cocoa powder.

If we can't ferment it into the proper flavors, then let's simulate it through other means.

 

[Joewalla88]

What does your recipe look like? Someone might be able to come up with something if we knew what you've been brewing with.

 

[Cyclman]

Have you tried a Dunkel recipe? Might be able to up the sweetness and body a bit to achieve what you want. http://byo.com/malt/item/578-dunkel-style-profile

 

[Johntodd]

Here's my recipe:

http://brewgr.com/recipe/10961/ez-winter-een-mas-in-july-doppelbock-doppelbock-recipe

I know it's not much by most people's standards, but it works for me. I think my particular brand of DME (from DMEMart.com) is what makes it works because their dark DME has a blend of different worts in it.

As for dunkels, that's what I wanted to brew all along, based upon a photograph(!) I saw of a dunkel! But I hit this doppelbock recipe and stayed with it.

Thanks!
-Johntodd

 

[Joewalla88]

I kinda wonder if you cut out the corn sugar and dialed back the extract if you'd get closer to what you're looking for. Things like corn sugar and table sugar can be used to boost abv, and dry/thin a beer out. I wonder of it's in there to help reach the desired abv without getting too thick or heavy. According to brewers friend, if you cut out the corn sugar, and dialed back the extract to 1.25 lbs you'd get something around 5.5 abv, and if you dropped it to 1 lb, you'd get something closer to 4.5. You might have to adjust your hopping a little bit, but that might be a good place to start.

 

[BigEd]

Here's my recipe:

http://brewgr.com/recipe/10961/ez-winter-een-mas-in-july-doppelbock-doppelbock-recipe

I know it's not much by most people's standards, but it works for me. I think my particular brand of DME (from DMEMart.com) is what makes it works because their dark DME has a blend of different worts in it.

As for dunkels, that's what I wanted to brew all along, based upon a photograph(!) I saw of a dunkel! But I hit this doppelbock recipe and stayed with it.

Thanks!
-Johntodd

I understand that anyone can call a beer by any name but in reality what you are making is a sweet stout or porter, not a dopplebock. The problem with making a lower alcohol version is that the quantities of the ingredients producing the alcohol are also creating the flavor and body profile of the beer.

Suggestions to eliminate the dextrose addition (which only adds alcohol) are a good start but you will also have to cut back on the malt extract as well to get you to the ABV range of a session beer. I second the idea of using malto-dextrin to add back some body into the lower alcohol beer but you can't expect to make a much lighter beer and get all the same sensory effects of the stronger version.

As an extract brewer you could/should consider using specialty grains for a steeping addition rather than rely solely on LME/DME. It's not comparable to all-grain but it does allow you to add colors and flavors that you cannot control using only extracts. I'd also investigate using something other than that dark extract. There really isn't anything in it that would be in an actual doppelbock. You can buy Munich malt extract from Northern Brewer (maybe other HBS also have a similar product) which IMO would make a much better starting ingredient for this beer rather than generic dark extract.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/maillard-malts-munich-malt-extract-syrup

Take the Munich extract to get your desired ABV, steep some dark German malts like Carafa for color and CaraMunich for flavor boost, then throw in some malt-dextrin for additional body.

 

[iamjk123]

I understand that anyone can call a beer by any name but in reality what you are making is a sweet stout or porter, not a dopplebock. The problem with making a lower alcohol version is that the quantities of the ingredients producing the alcohol are also creating the flavor and body profile of the beer.

Suggestions to eliminate the dextrose addition (which only adds alcohol) are a good start but you will also have to cut back on the malt extract as well to get you to the ABV range of a session beer. I second the idea of using malto-dextrin to add back some body into the lower alcohol beer but you can't expect to make a much lighter beer and get all the same sensory effects of the stronger version.

As an extract brewer you could/should consider using specialty grains for a steeping addition rather than rely solely on LME/DME. It's not comparable to all-grain but it does allow you to add colors and flavors that you cannot control using only extracts. I'd also investigate using something other than that dark extract. There really isn't anything in it that would be in an actual doppelbock. You can buy Munich malt extract from Northern Brewer (maybe other HBS also have a similar product) which IMO would make a much better starting ingredient for this beer rather than generic dark extract.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/maillard-malts-munich-malt-extract-syrup

Take the Munich extract to get your desired ABV, steep some dark German malts like Carafa for color and CaraMunich for flavor boost, then throw in some malt-dextrin for additional body.

I am sure this is a dumb question... But is it possible to brew a beer close to this using a different yeast? I am not able to lager yet

 

[Joewalla88]

I would try wyeast 1007 german ale yeast. I've made some good pseudo-lagers with it. It's one of my favorites.