Looks like wax on beer?

[user 92053]

Hello

This is my first post. I've been brewing from kits for a little while now. I don't do anything fancy, just want something drinkable.

I have a porter in secondary fermentation right now, and this evening I peek through the carboy glass and to my surprise there are two splotch-shaped films floating on top of my beer. To be honest it looks like melted wax was dropped in there. I've never seen this before. It doesn't look like mould (I've had mould on my beer before and skimmed it off with no ill effects, but that was in a pail... a bit harder to do from inside a carboy) but I'm not sure what else it could be.

Anyway, if anyone has experienced anything like this and could give me a clue as to what it is, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

David

 

[jfr1111]

Pics would help.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Also, check out this thread full of pellicle photos:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/pellicle-photo-collection-174033/

If what's on your beer looks anything like those pics, you have an infection. If not, send us your pics and we'll try to figure out what it is.

 

[user 92053]

It doesn't look specifically like any of the pictures in that thread, but one thing is for sure: the splotches have spread quite a bit since yesterday evening.

I'll try to post pics, but my camera doesn't seem to be working. My wife is still asleep and she's the one who's good with technology, so I'll have to wait a bit.

In the meantime... if it is an infection, what can be done about it?

 

[Revvy]

When did you rack it to secondary? It sounds more like yeast rafts forming, or another krausen starting, like folks get if they racked it too soon.

 

[user 92053]

I switched it over Thursday. It was five days in primary.

It doesn't look like krausen. There doesn't seem to be any bubbling at all. I'm not sure what yeast rafts are. I did accidentally disturb some of the sediment when I was siphoning.

 

[user 92053]

 

[Revvy]

It does to me look like you might be getting a pellicule forming, but I've never seen one developing. But I thought pellicules formed on the surface of the beer. To me this looks like it is below the surface.

We may have to wait it out to see if it spreads out on the surface.

 

[user 92053]

No, it's actually on the surface. Because I had disturbed some of the sediment during the siphon, it was starting to get muddy when I got to the bottom so I lost some of the beer. The bottom pic shows the level of the beer nicely, it's that white line that you see. Sorry about the pics, they're not the clearest.

What is pellicle? Is it due to an infection? What will it do to my beer and is there anyway to stop it?

 

[user 92053]

Well, while waiting for replies, in the last few hours the "splotch" (which I am assuming to be a pellicle) is spreading rapidly. As you can see from the picture below, it is well on the way to covering the entire surface of the beer. I expect that when I get home tonight, it will have reached that point.

At this point I have done a little googling and found that pellicle is normally associated with wild yeasts which are used in sour beers. Since sour is not a flavour I want in my porter, I am thinking of bottling it sooner rather than later (I had intended to let this sit for at least another full week.) I'll prime it with molasses in the hopes that it will cover up some of that sour flavour.

I have been having problems in my last few batches with sour off-flavours, and ironically with this one I thought I had been really anal with my sanitation. I have found that after a couple months of maturing, the sour flavours usually recede into the background, but I was hoping this would not be the case with this batch. I don't have the storage space to have several batches on the go at once, and I can't afford to be buying commercial beer for the next three months until it's drinkable.

 

[deggenbe]

bottling too soon will probably result in bottle bombs for sure., cover it up well to avoid homebrewing casualties.

 

[Rip]

Hmm..maybe think about getting the 'secondary' out of your process? No need to transfer a beer until you're ready for bottling IMO.

I hope you're willing to wait a little bit and watch what happens with this batch. No need to keep it around for months and months, but at least spend some time tasting it after it finishes fermenting. The flavors and aromas you encounter will provide clues about what might have gone wrong (we don't even know if anything went wrong at this point btw).

If this were one of my batches, based on the photo's - I'd just let it go another two to three weeks and then take a hydrometer sample to check FG and also to evaluate for any off flavors or smells. You might get lucky or you might have acetobacter or lactobacillus or something that makes some off flavors or aromas.

Don't Bottle it too soon!!! Putting it in a bottle won't stop the souring process, it won't make the beer 'stop going bad' and it won't make your wife happy when she sees the beer and glass all over the place when the bottles explode.

- M

 

[user 92053]

Thanks for the advice, Rip. Perhaps I will at least wait till the weekend.

To be honest, secondary usually isn't part of my process. But I have not had satisfactory results for my last three batches (they all come out tasting like over-steeped tea leaves) and so I have been trying different things to try and determine what is causing all those sour flavours. I got much stricter about sanitizing equipment and boiling water with my last two batches. I read somewhere that leaving the beer on the yeast too long could introduce unpleasant flavours, so I thought I might try moving it to secondary to see if that would have any effect.

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I have some bacterial infection, probably in my siphoning tube, and that I will have to do some much more heavy-duty sanitizing than I have previously. Or get a new tube.

I've never bothered with hydrometer readings, even though I have one. Generally I let things ferment about two weeks and then I bottle. I bottled my previous batch early, about a week and a half. It still had a bit of a sour flavour, but like the two previous batches, this tends to recede into the background after a month or two of maturing. My first batch that went "wrong" started out completely undrinkable and then, because I was so busy I had no time to dump the bottles out, two months later it was delicious.

One thing that does ease my mind despite the frightening appearance of this batch is that it smells wonderful. Still, I miss the days when I my beer would turn out delicious five days after bottling despite my lax practices.

 

[jfr1111]

Do you brew with extract or grains ? Over steeped tea leaves is the perfect descriptor for astringency, which can be caused by a lot of things, notably faulty mash pH, crappy crush and yes, maybe infection.

If you primary in a bucket, get rid of it. When bugs get in plastic, they never leave. I don't leave anything plastic sticky with wort for more than a few minutes, and I got mold in a siphoning tube that was stored dry and cleaned over the summer.

 

[user 92053]

No, I only brew with kits. In this case I used Cooper's Dark Ale and added some stuff to it (powdered dark malt, molasses, espresso coffee).

Yes, I do primary in a bucket. Usually, I only use my carboy for priming.

 

[Revvy]

Coffee?? I BETCHA you don't have a pellicule at all, I bet you have a skin made from OILS FROM THE COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[user 92053]

Coffee?? I BETCHA you don't have a pellicule at all, I bet you have a skin made from OILS FROM THE COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That thought did occur to me, actually. But I'm pretty sure this is not oils. It only just popped up yesterday, for one thing, and it's mat, not shiny or pearly. It looks dry and dusty, or like a patch of dead skin (or like wax that was dripped into the water). Plus, this is growing out gradually from the center, not like oil would behave, I think. Also, I've used coffee in a batch before, and I had nothing resembling this.

 

[jfr1111]

Espresso as in whole beans ? Crushed ? Actual coffee ?

The more stuff you add post-boil that are tough to get as sanitary as possible, the more you risk infection. But if you have had problems with previous batches tasting sour, I'd replace everything plastic that touches the beer post-boil and brew a simple can kit. This way you could rule out infection and look at process/ingredients next, because right now, any change will just be a shot in the dark.

 

[passedpawn]

I don't know, I've never had oil on top of a cup of coffee.

You didn't use a coffee-scented Yankee Candle did you?

 

[jfr1111]

Also, where are you fermenting your beer ? If it is a high traffic area with lots of dust and crap floating around, this might be a good way to harbour infection. I open ferment pretty much all of my beers (as in wide open to the air), but my brew room is meticulously vaccumed, dusted and it is draft free.

 

[user 92053]

I made some espresso coffee and poured it while still boiling hot into the cooling wort. I doubt it was the source of an infection, having just been boiled. I suppose it's not beyond the realm of possiblity.

I think you are right, both about the plastic, I'm going to have to replace everything, especially the siphoning hose. And about my brew area : it's a cluttered, dusty storage area, but there is nowhere else in our little apartment for me to do this. I guess I'll have to start using my carboy and airlock from now on...

Thank you for all the help and advice.

 

[user 92053]

Espresso as in whole beans ? Crushed ? Actual coffee ?

The more stuff you add post-boil that are tough to get as sanitary as possible, the more you risk infection. But if you have had problems with previous batches tasting sour, I'd replace everything plastic that touches the beer post-boil and brew a simple can kit. This way you could rule out infection and look at process/ingredients next, because right now, any change will just be a shot in the dark.

Also, where are you fermenting your beer ? If it is a high traffic area with lots of dust and crap floating around, this might be a good way to harbour infection. I open ferment pretty much all of my beers (as in wide open to the air), but my brew room is meticulously vaccumed, dusted and it is draft free.

I made some espresso and poured it still boiling hot in the cooling (but still hot) wort. Due to its being boiled, I doubt it woudl be the source of infection, but I suppose it's possible.

I guess you're right about the plastic, I'll have to get rid of it all, especially my siphoning hose. And as for my brewing area: it's a dusty, cluttered storage area, but I don't have any other place to do it in our little apartment.

Thank you very much for all the help and advice.

 

[user 92053]

Oops, sorry for the double-post. I thought my first one had been deleted so I posted again.

 

[jfr1111]

I made some espresso and poured it still boiling hot in the cooling (but still hot) wort. Due to its being boiled, I doubt it woudl be the source of infection, but I suppose it's possible.

I guess you're right about the plastic, I'll have to get rid of it all, especially my siphoning hose. And as for my brewing area: it's a dusty, cluttered storage area, but I don't have any other place to do it in our little apartment.

Thank you very much for all the help and advice.

Use your carboy and airlcok next time along with a new hose and siphon and try to be as as sanitary as possible.

 

[user 92053]

I'm bringing back this old-ish thread to provide an update. I've had an interesting time with the beer.

The film or whatever-it-was that was growing on my beer indeed expanded to cover almost the entire surface. Towards the end it was pock-marked with whitish, bubble-like islands. Pretty gross.

I decided to try bottling it nonetheless. Despite the definite rotten smell when I initially removed the airlock (the plug had become wedged deep in the neck of the carboy and had to be pried out with a steak knife), it more generally smelled like beer and molasses. The slime seemed to dissolve as soon as the beer moved a bit (much to my concern). I primed with molasses (fancy, not blackstrap as I had used in the boil).

A couple days after bottling, it was apparent that there was a slimy film floating on the surface of the beer in every bottle. It also clung to and coated the sides if you moved the bottle a bit. Quite frankly, it looked disgusting. I decided to dump it. Having opened a bottle to do just that, my wise wife convinced me to taste it first. So I did.

I was pleasantly surprised. I could definitely taste the molasses and espresso coffee, which went very well together and with the dark beer taste. Unfortunately, there was a mild aftertaste of rot which put a damper on the whole thing. However, it was much, much better than I had feared. So I decided to let the other bottles mature a bit and see what happened. That was almost two weeks ago.

I just opened the second bottle and drank it. The carbonation is quite poor, but it may be different in other bottles; I have never achieved uniformity with this, even with my best batches. There is no trace of that taste of rottenness I detected with the first bottle. However, the nice notes left by the molasses and coffee are also hard to discern. The overwhelming taste is... well, it's hard to describe, it's a mix of a bunch of stuff. It is very harsh and bitter, but an alcoholic/chemical kind of bitter which is quite strong (like medicine or hard liquor) and leaves my tongue feeling ever-so-slightly numb for a few seconds, much like cloves. It's not exactly pleasant, but not quite unpleasant either.

I know much of the super-intense bitterness comes from the blackstrap molasses, which has now had all of its sugar fermented out of it. Somewhere in there I seem to recognize the harsh, astringent/sour taste I've had problems with in all of my recent batches, but it's got quite a few other strong flavours competing with it. I know from experience that these will mellow out over the course of a couple months.

So, despite my disappointment (I really wanted, and have been craving, a thick, tasty porter to savour right now) I think I will keep this stuff and wait. I figure sometime after Christmas it will have matured into something more drinkable and enjoyable.

 

[Ohbee]

where are you fermenting? is the air temp constant or is it in an area where you get extreme highs and lows? high fermentation temps could lead to astringency. imo

 

[z987k]

In all likelyhood the infection is in something plastic you're using. I just replace mine every so often.