Looking for input on single tier igloo HERMS without electric element

[Buckeye_Phil]

Thanks in advance for the help. Finally getting around to designing a pseudo automated system (currently just doing BIAB) and figured there's a lot of knowledge here that could assist...

My goals are certainly not top of the line automation, but something that gets me 80-90% of the way there. I've considered a lot of the standard ideas - don't trust myself to build the right safety systems into an electric system, and wanted to stay away from automated gas systems with pilots, etc (also didn't want to deal with a frame build).

So here's my current idea... Igloo cooler MT and HLT. Preheat strike water in boil kettle and pump to MT, dough in. Preheat sparge water and pump to HLT. Continuously pump wort through countercurrent chiller back to MT (temp measured inline). Pump sparge water through countercurrent chiller using Ranco controller based on inline temp reading from MT. Then use pumps to sparge per a normal single tier system.

The questions I have...
1) I know I'm going to lose a lot of the heat retention benefits of the cooler by circulating through a pump / coils. Is it even worth it?
2) if I preheat sparge water to 175 and use that to maintain mash temp via my heat exchanger, will that be too hot and cause scorching issues (or leech tannins?)
3) not that I do any stepped mashed now... But any idea if hot water in HLT (without additional heat input) would have enough energy to do a stepped mash? May be limited to decoctions, or adding more hot water from my kettle, huh?

Anyway. Appreciate the input. Looking for something simple that lets me use prebuilt components without just buying a prebuilt system. But don't want to get halfway through it and realize I neglected some basic science that keeps it from working.

 

[Buckeye_Phil]

Bump. Anyone have any thoughts that could help me out?

 

[brettwasbtd]

Thanks in advance for the help. Finally getting around to designing a pseudo automated system (currently just doing BIAB) and figured there's a lot of knowledge here that could assist...

My goals are certainly not top of the line automation, but something that gets me 80-90% of the way there. I've considered a lot of the standard ideas - don't trust myself to build the right safety systems into an electric system, and wanted to stay away from automated gas systems with pilots, etc (also didn't want to deal with a frame build).

So here's my current idea... Igloo cooler MT and HLT. Preheat strike water in boil kettle and pump to MT, dough in. Preheat sparge water and pump to HLT. Continuously pump wort through countercurrent chiller back to MT (temp measured inline). Pump sparge water through countercurrent chiller using Ranco controller based on inline temp reading from MT. Then use pumps to sparge per a normal single tier system.

The questions I have...
1) I know I'm going to lose a lot of the heat retention benefits of the cooler by circulating through a pump / coils. Is it even worth it?
2) if I preheat sparge water to 175 and use that to maintain mash temp via my heat exchanger, will that be too hot and cause scorching issues (or leech tannins?)
3) not that I do any stepped mashed now... But any idea if hot water in HLT (without additional heat input) would have enough energy to do a stepped mash? May be limited to decoctions, or adding more hot water from my kettle, huh?

Anyway. Appreciate the input. Looking for something simple that lets me use prebuilt components without just buying a prebuilt system. But don't want to get halfway through it and realize I neglected some basic science that keeps it from working.

If I am understanding your goals and concerns I probably wouldn't even opt for the herms if you aren't comfortable with building the necessary pieces or or want to buy existing stuff. Is using the igloos purely cause you already own them?

I know you said you didn't want buy a prebuilt system, but wasn't sure if you were ok with purchasing a few components.
You could look into purchasing something like these premade HLT with controllers. Or have you looked into the $50 herms thread using a crockpot or small hotplate could be an option


Either way I just don't see the cooler based system getting anywhere close to automated without someway to adjust your temp in the hlt. I would just stick to single infusion in the cooler and be done with it...but I'm cheap

 

[douglasbarbin]

1) I know I'm going to lose a lot of the heat retention benefits of the cooler by circulating through a pump / coils. Is it even worth it?
2) if I preheat sparge water to 175 and use that to maintain mash temp via my heat exchanger, will that be too hot and cause scorching issues (or leech tannins?)
3) not that I do any stepped mashed now... But any idea if hot water in HLT (without additional heat input) would have enough energy to do a stepped mash? May be limited to decoctions, or adding more hot water from my kettle, huh?

1. The cooler retains heat, but the HERMS coil loses heat by transferring it to the mash. The act of recirculating also loses heat. Eventually, the cooler will no longer be able to keep up.

2. It won't be too hot, but eventually it won't be hot enough, because that 175 will have equalized with your mash temperature. Tannins are less of an issue when mash pH is low. I wouldn't even worry about tannins, because inability to maintain the mash temp is going to be your biggest problem here.

3. You can forget about doing step mashes (outside of decoctions). I don't think you will be able to maintain a mash temperature, let alone raise it fast enough for a step mash. There is a finite limit to how much water you can add to the HLT.

The bottom line is that you really need a way to heat the HLT for HERMS to be effective, especially if you want to step mash.