Looking for help choosing a mash tun

[Gamby]

As I build my 3-kettle home brew rig, I am looking to replace my igloo cooler mash tun with a stainless steel unit. I currently have a Spike 10 gallon kettle as my HLT and I will soon have an SS Brewtech BME 10 gallon BK. I am considering the following for my mash tun: The SS Brewtech Infussion mash tun, another Spike kettle or a Stout mash tun with the bottom drain. If I go with the Spike or the Stout I will add a HERMS coil to my existing Spike HLT. (I already have the necessary pumps.)

I like the features of the Infussion mash tun from SS Brewtech but have seen some mixed reviews. Going with Stout or Spike would allow for automation down the road.

Please let me know if you have any experience with any of these units and if you can offer any thoughts or recommendations.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Dcpcooks]

Why wouldn't you add a herms coil with the SsBrewtech?

 

[augiedoggy]

As I build my 3-kettle home brew rig, I am looking to replace my igloo cooler mash tun with a stainless steel unit. I currently have a Spike 10 gallon kettle as my HLT and I will soon have an SS Brewtech BME 10 gallon BK. I am considering the following for my mash tun: The SS Brewtech Infussion mash tun, another Spike kettle or a Stout mash tun with the bottom drain. If I go with the Spike or the Stout I will add a HERMS coil to my existing Spike HLT. (I already have the necessary pumps.)

I like the features of the Infussion mash tun from SS Brewtech but have seen some mixed reviews. Going with Stout or Spike would allow for automation down the road.

Please let me know if you have any experience with any of these units and if you can offer any thoughts or recommendations.

Thanks for the help!

The large bulky weight and size of an insulated mash tun will be absolutely pointless with a herms keeping your mash temps and makes no sense if you look at it from a practical standpoint...I see you understand that already so..
Id say if herms or rims is something your going to do, I would not get the insulated tun but get something thats easier to move around and clean and better make use of the space in your brewery... I use 16 gallon kettles myself for all 3 and they work very well for 5-6 gallons or 10-11 gallons... Consider the possibility of this if theres any chance you may want more beer with less work in the future.

As cool as the SS insulated tuns are, Most find they dont do anything better or even as well as a plastic cooler but look cooler (pun intended).. there are lots of threads talking about all the preheating and temp fluctuations... IMHO your better off with rims or herms.. especially if your enjoying building your brewery now.

 

[augiedoggy]

Why wouldn't you add a herms coil with the SsBrewtech?

he did say if he went with spike or stout he would look at herms but not the insulated SS.

 

[kh54s10]

Why wouldn't you add a herms coil with the SsBrewtech?

Unless there are options for input and output ports, all I see is an insulated SS pot with a false bottom and drain. Adding ports would probably be very difficult.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I see a herms coil as a tool to step mash. Which offers many benefits down the line.

The Ss mash tun heater will not raise temps only maintain them

 

[augiedoggy]

I see a herms coil as a tool to step mash. Which offers many benefits down the line.

The Ss mash tun heater will not raise temps only maintain them

It funny because I read your comment wrong because I see it as the OP.
The herms is more than adequate to maintain or increase temps (although its not as effective as rims in step mashing since it has a slow reaction time and conversion takes place quickly) so what point would the extra cost, weight and size as well as headaches with adding ports to an insulated stainless tun bring to the table here?
Again its like wearing a raincoat indoor to stay extra dry.

The ss mashtun heater is a bandaid to the fact that the mash tun insulation doesnt really do what its supposed to effectively enough because the truth is a stainless insulated tun doesnt typically insulate as well as a plastic one could becuase they conduct heat so well and wichk it away..

Its a trade off and the biggest reason its popular is the cosmetics of it. Some people say its for the looks and some argue it will last longer and its more durable but you wont see those people carrying it or banging it around in a sink or outside with a hose like they would a cooler mash tun either so its kind of a silly comparision...
herms and the ss brewtech mash tun heater are both intended to do the very same thing... The herms is a lot more practical and most would argue it works better as well. Rims is generally used more often by folks who like to do a lot of step mashing.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/08/11/rims-and-herms-recirculating-infusion-mash-systems-for-beer/

 

[Dcpcooks]

I have no problem ramping through rests with my herms set up. I use a 50' 1/2" coil in a 20g pot so I have enough mass to raise 50 lbs of grain. I played with the rims rocket a while back and didn't notice a large difference.

I like Blichmann gear for the hot side. The false bottom is the best out there IMO.

Spikes false bottom looks interesting. I don't know stouts though.

I'd say if you go herms or rims you need a controller to do it right. If the op doesn't plan on that level of control, now or in the future then the Ss with the little 60w heater pad should maintain temps better than any kettle could. It would be hit or miss to just use a herms coil without a way to control temps.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have no problem ramping through rests with my herms set up. I use a 50' 1/2" coil in a 20g pot so I have enough mass to raise 50 lbs of grain. I played with the rims rocket a while back and didn't notice a large difference.

I like Blichmann gear for the hot side. The false bottom is the best out there IMO.

Spikes false bottom looks interesting. I don't know stouts though.

I'd say if you go herms or rims you need a controller to do it right. If the op doesn't plan on that level of control, now or in the future then the Ss with the little 60w heater pad should maintain temps better than any kettle could. It would be hit or miss to just use a herms coil without a way to control temps.

How quickly can you ramp in the first 10-15 minutes when most of the conversion takes place? usually with herms this process is a bit slow.

a kettle mash tun with recirculation through a herms or rims should be dead on consistent and even... If you look at both the 10 gallon and 20 gallon ss insulated tuns threads you will see complaints of people that found the 60w heater did not work as promised and some returned or stopped using it. theres even a chapman vs ss mashtun youtube comparision video that touches on this.

I think the choice depends on other factors too like whether you want to be able to move it and clean it easily... I carry my 16 gallon kettle mashtun downstairs and out to my composter and dump it directly into it and rinse it with my garden hose or in my kitchen sink... try doing that with the 20gallon SS brewing insulated tun needed to brew that same amount of beer.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I ramp at just over a degree a min. But I could push it harder if I felt the need.

Where are you getting your data that supports conversion is done in 10-20 min? That seems aggressive to me.

 

[Gamby]

Thanks for all of the great input!

Based on all of the input, reviews and videos I have decided to skip the SS Brewtech Infusion mash tun. I like the bottom drain but I do not think that it outweighs the cons that I have seen in the reviews.

At this point, I am thinking about adding the false bottom to my existing 10 gallon Spike kettle and using it as my mash tun. I can then purchasing a new HLT with a HERMS coil and an extra re-circulation port at the top (I am a little more a fan of the HERMS idea than the RIMS system). I am also thinking about going with at least a 15 gallon kettle to allow for future expansion. I do not think that it would be a problem using a 15 gallon HLT for a 5 gallon batch but I would have the option to move up to 10 gallon batches as well.

Now I am down to the Stout vs the Spike. The Stout is more expensive but I can have all TC fittings. On the Spike I can have TC fittings on everything but the HERMS fittings; they would be NPT.

Please keep the thoughts and comments coming, they have been very helpful.

 

[Gamby]

One side note, does anyone know if the SSBrewtech sparge arm will fit the Spike 10 gallon kettle?

 

[DasBierBaron]

augiedoggy has good practical advice.

I have an expensive pot and cheap pot. I actually like the cheap pot a lot better because it's so much lighter. Triclad bottoms are pointless except for maybe a direct fired mash and they add considerable weight. Solid, riveted handles is the only real requirement for a kettle.

Unless you are doing a herms or rims, a cooler is really the best tool for mashing.

 

[augiedoggy]

One side note, does anyone know if the SSBrewtech sparge arm will fit the Spike 10 gallon kettle?

I have the sparge arm coming in the mail now... Their website states the diameter (around 13" I believe). Doesnt spikes site give you the dimensions of the kettle?

 

[augiedoggy]

augiedoggy has good practical advice.

I have an expensive pot and cheap pot. I actually like the cheap pot a lot better because it's so much lighter. Triclad bottoms are pointless except for maybe a direct fired mash and they add considerable weight. Solid, riveted handles is the only real requirement for a kettle.

Unless you are doing a herms or rims, a cooler is really the best tool for mashing.

and if you dont move the kettles around with liquid in them even the riveted handles are not needed.
On a side note the question about welded vs riveted handles been brought up a few times. I have never seen report of a welded handle breaking loose although many of us fear it. I think its one of those things that just looks weaker than it really is.

I do have a 13 gallon kettle with riveted handles that leak though.. So YMMV

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for all of the great input!

Based on all of the input, reviews and videos I have decided to skip the SS Brewtech Infusion mash tun. I like the bottom drain but I do not think that it outweighs the cons that I have seen in the reviews.

At this point, I am thinking about adding the false bottom to my existing 10 gallon Spike kettle and using it as my mash tun. I can then purchasing a new HLT with a HERMS coil and an extra re-circulation port at the top (I am a little more a fan of the HERMS idea than the RIMS system). I am also thinking about going with at least a 15 gallon kettle to allow for future expansion. I do not think that it would be a problem using a 15 gallon HLT for a 5 gallon batch but I would have the option to move up to 10 gallon batches as well.

Now I am down to the Stout vs the Spike. The Stout is more expensive but I can have all TC fittings. On the Spike I can have TC fittings on everything but the HERMS fittings; they would be NPT.

Please keep the thoughts and comments coming, they have been very helpful.

either spike or stouts kettles are going to be tall and narrow in diameter and thats what you want. this works better for brewing 5 or 10 gallons in the same kettle. if your looking at a herms it sounds like your making a smart choice here. the only limitation with a 10 gallon mash tun is there will be some 10 gallon recipes that will not fit in it. if your brewing mostly 10 gallon I wouldnt worry about it. Even if you upgrade later your only out a false bottom at this point.

This is your choice of course but I much prefer npt with stainless camlock fittings for the hot side of my brewery and the TC fittings for the sanitary side myself. camlocks are much quicker and easier to use and the cost is much less both initially and down the road.. I believe Bobby from brewhardware feels the same way about them.
TC does look nice and if it were a much larger brewing system would make more sense all around (at least to me).
Good luck.

 

[augiedoggy]

I ramp at just over a degree a min. But I could push it harder if I felt the need.

Where are you getting your data that supports conversion is done in 10-20 min? That seems aggressive to me.

There are a lot of people that only mash for 30 mins... I have checked with iodine and also tasted very sweet wort in as little as 10 mins myself... strike temp is important. I did a beer a month or so ago and forgot to but the secondary braided screen on under my false bottom of my mash tun so it plugged almost immediately after mashin... so we quickly emptied the contents into other kettles so I could fix it and poured everything back in... this only took about ten minutes but the wort was already very sweet...

Do a search in the general technique section on conversion times...

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

Thanks for all of the great input!

Based on all of the input, reviews and videos I have decided to skip the SS Brewtech Infusion mash tun. I like the bottom drain but I do not think that it outweighs the cons that I have seen in the reviews.

At this point, I am thinking about adding the false bottom to my existing 10 gallon Spike kettle and using it as my mash tun. I can then purchasing a new HLT with a HERMS coil and an extra re-circulation port at the top (I am a little more a fan of the HERMS idea than the RIMS system). I am also thinking about going with at least a 15 gallon kettle to allow for future expansion. I do not think that it would be a problem using a 15 gallon HLT for a 5 gallon batch but I would have the option to move up to 10 gallon batches as well.

Now I am down to the Stout vs the Spike. The Stout is more expensive but I can have all TC fittings. On the Spike I can have TC fittings on everything but the HERMS fittings; they would be NPT.

Please keep the thoughts and comments coming, they have been very helpful.

I think you are correct in your decision and agree with all the other comments. As Augie Doggie says, it is a not that difficult to move a 15 or 16 gallon kettle full of grain when you are done mashing. Moving the insulated tun would be a PITA. I also have a 15 gallon pot for my tun. It works great using my RIMS to do a step mash. You will love the ease of cleaning it compared your cooler. I have recently made a grain bag for my mash tun and it makes getting rid of the grain even less of a chore. After the tun is drained I lift it into a 5 gallon bucket and it is lighter, smaller and even easer to move.

Fittings wise, I use quick connects (Kent) and since I have valves everywhere don't really move things around anymore except to clean. TC would be nice, but I would look at it as more things to clean and keep track of (the washers and clamps).

Having never used a HERMS coil for mashing I can't compare it to RIMS, but I would think the results would be similar and maybe faster.

I can heat the water in my HLT pretty quickly. It can take 10 minutes or more for my RIMS to step up 8 gallons of mash wort from 135 to 152. Alternately, I think given the coil length, the heat transfer in a 50 ft HERMS coil would pretty quick. As fast as you can pump the wort though it you should be able to raise the temp. I have to run wort through my RIMS at a reduced flow for it to be really effective, probably about a gallon a minute.

My only knock on a HERMS may be keeping the inside of the coil clean but I guess it wouldn't be much different than keeping the counter-flow chiller clean. It would be one less thing lying around since it is in the HLT, unlike a RIMS that takes up a bit of space. FWIW I have used a makeshift HERMS out of my old 25ft immersion chiller to keep the temp constant when souring some Berlinerweiss wort for a couple days prior to boiling it. After introducing the lacto in the wort (yogurt) I set the HLT at 110 degrees and used the sensor on the BK to turn on a pump to circulate the wort through the coil and back to keep it at 105 degrees. It worked real well.

 

[augiedoggy]

Herms is generally slower than rims.
While this does have some effect on size , mass and power keep this in mind, My first 12" 800w tiny copper rims was faster that the 25' herms coil in my hlt with 4500w element .. This was with the flow down around 1.7 gallons per minute. If I had a 50ft herms It would have likely worked better but every time I read where someone has used both they seem to agree the rims is much more responsive since your directly heating the mash and not through maintaining a temp in a large HLT full of water. plus you can heat your sparge water up to 170 while recirculating your mash...this eats up a bit more time each brewing session depending on your technique.

 

[jekeane]

Is your spike kettle a V3? That is the only way I would consider using it as a mash tun the V2 was not my favorite.

I like my Blichmann mash tun more so than any I have used.

 

[augiedoggy]

OK i'll bite.
Im using a cheap bayou classic spigot version 16 gallon kettle with their false bottom ($160 shipped together) and it works fine? Is there some special features im missing that will make it perform better? Why would the version one spike kettle not work well? Did the older version of false bottom not work for some reason? besides the seal around the false bottom and hole size what else would have an impact on performance?

 

[Gamby]

My Spike kettle is a V3. The Spike has a few things that I like over other kettles. I like the welded fittings instead of the bulkhead type fittings others use. No washers or gaskets to worry about. A little Teflon tape and you are good to go. I also like the tri-clad bottom. Although I will be heating with propane for now, I can go to electric or even induction with no problem; just a little more versatility. The drawback is the weight. I figure using my existing kettle as my mash tun keeps me from having to send it back to Spike to add the extra ports welded in that would allow me to use it as the HLT with the HERMS coil.

I will be using 10" high pressure banjo burners. At a max of 220,000 BTU they heat water pretty quickly.

At this point I am working with Spike to price the HLT kettle with the HERMS coil installed. I can then better compare it to other options like the Stout. I also may consider doing the HERMS coil myself due to cost and just have the ports welded into the kettle.

You may be able to tell that I tend to overdue the research a bit but I just try to make sure that I have considered all of my options. All of the feedback has been great at helping me consider some things that I have not thought about.

 

[jekeane]

OK i'll bite.
Im using a cheap bayou classic spigot version 16 gallon kettle with their false bottom ($160 shipped together) and it works fine? Is there some special features im missing that will make it perform better? Why would the version one spike kettle not work well? Did the older version of false bottom not work for some reason? besides the seal around the false bottom and hole size what else would have an impact on performance?

Yeah so the V2 came with a custom Jaybird false bottom that had about 2.5"-3" deadspace underneath for a 15g kettle. I would regularly get stuck sparges and had the grain bed set so tight that the headspace would cavitate and when you went to break the bead or tried to underlet it the wort would geyser out of the kettle. I also found it frustrating that while the bed could occasionally set like a rock it would still let a ton of grain through the false bottom making it impossible to directly heat a mash without the utmost care and lowest heat possible or you would burn the grain on the kettle bottom. I have a spike V2 HLT and BK and those had been great but the V2 false bottom setup for me was a nightmare. I now have a blichmann mash tun in my eherms setup and have used several coolers a keggle and my brew buddies ssinfusion and that piece of equipment was my least favorite.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yeah so the V2 came with a custom Jaybird false bottom that had about 2.5"-3" deadspace underneath for a 15g kettle. I would regularly get stuck sparges and had the grain bed set so tight that the headspace would cavitate and when you went to break the bead or tried to underlet it the wort would geyser out of the kettle. I also found it frustrating that while the bed could occasionally set like a rock it would still let a ton of grain through the false bottom making it impossible to directly heat a mash without the utmost care and lowest heat possible or you would burn the grain on the kettle bottom. I have a spike V2 HLT and BK and those had been great but the V2 false bottom setup for me was a nightmare. I now have a blichmann mash tun in my eherms setup and have used several coolers a keggle and my brew buddies ssinfusion and that piece of equipment was my least favorite.

I've had the air get trapped under the liquid and grainbed myself but only if I made the mistake of draining the grainbed.while sparging and not adding enough sparge water initially if I try to add more after the fact the air remains trapped unless I stir the mash and in bubbles up like you dresribed... So I just make it a point to add enough sparge water when fly sparging now.

 

[DasBierBaron]

and if you dont move the kettles around with liquid in them even the riveted handles are not needed.
On a side note the question about welded vs riveted handles been brought up a few times. I have never seen report of a welded handle breaking loose although many of us fear it. I think its one of those things that just looks weaker than it really is.

I do have a 13 gallon kettle with riveted handles that leak though.. So YMMV

I have had two welded handles fail. One on a cheap pot while it was empty, another on the lid to a really nice Morebeer pot. Morebeer replaced the lid for free.

 

[Gamby]

Jekeane,

Do you know what the difference is between the v2 and v3 false bottom?

 

[jekeane]

Jekeane,

Do you know what the difference is between the v2 and v3 false bottom?

the V3 false bottom looks much shorter than the V2 the overall design for the draining is different as well. The V3 kettles have a recessed bottom much like Blichmann's design and the false bottom rests on the ridge of the recess making for what I imagine would be a very good fit.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have had two welded handles fail. One on a cheap pot while it was empty, another on the lid to a really nice Morebeer pot. Morebeer replaced the lid for free.

This is good to know since theres a couple threads started where people asked about this and your the first person I have heard of having an issue but this makes it a legit concern.

 

[augiedoggy]

the V3 false bottom looks much shorter than the V2 the overall design for the draining is different as well. The V3 kettles have a recessed bottom much like Blichmann's design and the false bottom rests on the ridge of the recess making for what I imagine would be a very good fit.

Like the ridge on a bayou classic kettle for their false bottoms to rest on? I have a lot of space under mine though... 3 gallons which is ok because that liquid is still drained and used.

 

[DasBierBaron]

This is good to know since theres a couple threads started where people asked about this and your the first person I have heard of having an issue but this makes it a legit concern.

There is so much variance in the quality of welds and the cheap kettle I was using must have just been poor quality. I think if a weld is done properly it should be plenty strong.