Local Home Brew Shop Prices

[AlchemyBrewing]

I want to be able to support my local shop. I really do. I think it is important and a foundation to the health of our hobby. But how do I do it when their prices are so high. I was in a pinch for a 1/2"NPT M/M nipple and they charged over $10 a piece! That is almost 3 times what places like Northern Brewer (not known for their prices). Their prices on ingredients is not that bad. A little higher but I don't mind that. I am OK paying a little more for something to get it local but 3 times seems excessive. Do any of you have this problem in your local and how do you deal with it.

I am currently facing another attack of poor planning on my part and am going to need to shell out $70 for a keezer temp controller because I don't have time to mail order or build one of my own. I will eventually get the aquarium controller on ebay and build a unit. Then I will turn around and sell the $70 unit and hope I come out a little ahead.

Advice and thoughts appreciated.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

I hear ya. I buy everything online now. Even with shipping the prices are way lower.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I have a fantastic LHBS. They are germans with a thick accent passionate about brewing.

That said....

My last brew was $27.59 at PARTY MART.

It wiould have been $41 or so at the LHBS.......

I feel awful.

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

I have thought about approaching them but I don't want to strain what relationship exists.

 

[djt17]

At our LHBS, Rahr 2-row is $1.49/lb crushed, not bad. But; their hops, yeast, & supplies are 2 - 3 times what I can purchase online. I support doing business local & will even pay a small premium to do so, but not at twice the cost.

 

[frazier]

I agree with the idea of supporting local businesses, up to a point. My LHBS has decent prices on some things, not so great on others. So I pick and choose, and plan my purchases. My main gripe is that they won’t split pounds of specialty grains, so unless it’s a real emergency I do my recipe building online. But I’m happy to buy hops, yeast, tubing, Better Bottles, etc. from them without counting pennies. When you factor in shipping, and the convenience of getting it when you need it, they’re pretty close.

 

[Sea]

I agree with the idea of supporting local businesses, up to a point. My LHBS has decent prices on some things, not so great on others. So I pick and choose, and plan my purchases. My main gripe is that they won’t split pounds of specialty grains, so unless it’s a real emergency I do my recipe building online. But I’m happy to buy hops, yeast, tubing, Better Bottles, etc. from them without counting pennies. When you factor in shipping, and the convenience of getting it when you need it, they’re pretty close.

Agreed. I buy little things at the LHBS when I need them, as well as bulk grain since shipping is expensive. Then I make a larger online order every couple months.

I feel like I have to keep supporting the LHBS though, because I'd be in a real pinch if they went away.

 

[mullenite]

I love my LHBS. One of the employees is a member on HBT and they have great prices on pretty much everything. A few things are more expensive than online for the item but they are still cheaper than buying online with shipping.

 

[rcrabb22]

Some LHBS proprietors love to brew but are not good at business. Document and show the lower prices to you LHBS and tell them why you shop for some things with them and others items online. I too am willing to pay a little more to support the LHBS or when I need something right now.

My LHBS knew hops prices had dropped but were slow to pass it on to the customers. I know them well enough to say they were not gouging on purpose, but just slow to react to market conditions and needed a little push.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

I visited mine for the first time ever Sunday (moved to the area in September and never had the need for an emergency run). Super nice people and they're a brew-on-premises so there was a lot going on to watch while waiting for the grain order to be crushed. $30 and I was on the 30 minute trip home with everything I needed, something that I didn't need but wanted, and a bottle of homemade rootbeer.

I'm definitely a fan. I'll have to compare pricing at some point, but the convenience factor combined with the great customer experience makes that much less important.

 

[BadgerBrewer]

I buy virtually everything online at Brewmasterwarehouse.com and Hopsdirect.com. I occasionally will run down to the LHBS in an emergency to buy grains or a stopper or such, but I keep about 10+ lbs. of hops in my freezer, and 5-10 packs of yeast in the fridge to go along with my washed liquid yeast strains. With the $6.99 shipping and preferred customer discount (which my LHBS never offers) you just can't beat it.

I hear ya about supporting the local businessman, but not at 2-3 times the price. I mean, $4.75 for a pack of Notty?!? Yikes!

 

[MeanGreen]

I agree with BadgerBrewer. We shop at the same store. Good bunch of people there but for experienced brewers its not worth it.

I have my receipts etc from when I started. Ouch!

They are they to make money on the front end of people just starting out.

BMW is the best. It would take a lot for us to switch from using them.

 

[jaobrien6]

I would also like to support my local shops, but they just don't compete with the online places in terms of either price or selection. With the exception of grains and liquid yeast, I buy everything online these days. I'd love to have one of these great online retailers like AHS be my local homebrew store. <sigh> Oh well.

 

[johnmcc]

I stopped at a shop and he wanted $5.99 for a lb of DME.

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

Do you mean BrewMasters Warehouse? I will have to give them a try.

Thanks!

 

[BadgerBrewer]

Yes! Sorry, brewmasterswarehouse.com

 

[bja]

I usually buy sacks of base grains and wine kits at my LHBS but he has very little selection of specialty grains, his hops are way overpriced and the yeast is all expired. I ended up buying 8 tubes of different yeast online and made slants from every one of them. I haven't bought yeast in almost 2 years.

That said, my LHBS owner is a great guy. I love going there just to BS with him.

 

[tamoore]

Going to mine tonight. I buy the stuff for about 1 batch a month from them.

 

[TheMan]

I buy bulk grain from Mid Country and bulk hops from hopsdirect.com. Until I got bulk grain I bought everything from BMW. But now I save so much on the base grain that I will buy the specialty malts from the LHBS, and various other items I might need if in a pinch. As much as a person plans ahead there is always a time when you are in a bind and need something right away. Because of this I pay the minimal premium of the LHBS just to help keep them around.

However, hops and yeast from the LHBS...forget about it, 3 bucks an ounce is ridiculous. I have openly told them where and why I buy from whom, as well as how much items cost me. To me, if a customer came in and told me this it would tell me something about my prices. They have not changed their prices at all.

 

[azscoob]

My LHBS has some things cheaper than online, some things way above online prices, but most are right inline with everyone else, they also contribute 10% of local club member purchases back to the club. They also have a pretty good selection of specialty grains and often have 39 dollar sales on sacks of bulk grain, I would hate to see them go, since they have been a big help when I am in a bind with forgotten items, as well as recipe ideas and other misc supplies.

 

[redketchup]

I hear ya. I buy everything online now. Even with shipping the prices are way lower.

That's because you are in USA. I'm in Canada and there's nothing online for homebrew. I tried to order just a pound of PBW from Austinhomebrew and you guys it costs you 8$ flat rate (even for your entire order), but to Canada it's about 40$ just for PBW!! Plus the stupid duty fees, taxes, feeS from UPS, etc... It's terrible. That's the cost of living on the wrong side of the border

 

[JKoravos]

I buy some stuff from the LHBS. Mostly yeast, small miscellaneous items, specialty grains if I'm short. It's definitely a small amount compared to what I buy online. I buy my grain and hops in bulk. Bulk grain from North Country Malt and hops from HopsDirect. It's pretty hard to 'support your LHBS' when you feel like you're getting ripped off on these things. Even buying by the sack at the LHBS cost $1.20/lb for pale malt. I have some pale malt on the way from NCM that cost me $0.46/lb. When you're going through hundreds of pounds of grain per year, that difference adds a huge chunk to the cost of brewing. If the LHBS charged a 10% or even 20% premium over what I could get it online I would always buy from my LHBS, but 200%? Please, that's insulting.

 

[tamoore]

I pretty much got hosed price wise last night (3.95 for an ounce of Warrior), but I figger I helped the local guy stay afloat. That's gotta be worth something, right?

 

[BuonAnno]

I buy my hops online but all of my grain comes from the LHBS. I am willing to take on the additional expense because the guy that owns the store is a stand-up brewer. Here are the two examples that come to mind.

Once I was in there talking about how I was gong to use my corny as a secondary and he went in the back and came back with modified corny keg lids complete with a blowoff. He just gave it to me.

Then two weeks ago my Mash Tun cooler split down the side. I was complaining about in the shop and he let me borrow his personal Mash Tun for the weekend so I could brew.

Thats the kind of thing that you just can't get when ordering online. Oh and he always offers me a pint of his latest batch.

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

I agree that it is a delicate balance. The LHBS does so much for us and our "craft". From the recent Big Brew Day to club support. I agree with PP that I am happy to pay a reasonable mark up to support them, add the convenience of quick access but $11 for a 1/2" NPT F/F nipple is absurd. McMaster has them for $2.45. I just wish they would look at things and realize that they would get much more business if they would just be reasonable in their mark up.

 

[oceanselv]

I have found it is cheaper to buy my hops by the pound from hopsdirect.com and find a few other home brewers to combine our orders and get grains by the pallet from North Country Malt. My last buy saved over $70 on just 2 bags of grain. I use my lhbs for yeast and specialty grain purchases. For equipment such as brew pots, grain mills etc they are the same price as most on line stores. However, if I am purchasing more than $100 in equipment and can get a float rate shipping of $7 or $8 it is cheaper to buy on line and not have to pay the sales tax at my lhbs.

 

[Sea]

I agree that it is a delicate balance. The LHBS does so much for us and our "craft". From the recent Big Brew Day to club support. I agree with PP that I am happy to pay a reasonable mark up to support them, add the convenience of quick access but $11 for a 1/2" NPT F/F nipple is absurd. McMaster has them for $2.45. I just wish they would look at things and realize that they would get much more business if they would just be reasonable in their mark up.

I think it's easy to overlook how much it costs to run these small independent shops. Most of these guys aren't getting rich. It's easy to say "that's a ridiculous markup," but we have no idea what they actually paid for the item, or what their operational costs are. Not to mention that it costs more to stock something you don't sell a lot of.

Not trying to be argumentative here - I'm about to place an online order right now - just saying that most of these little shops aren't trying to gouge us, many are just trying to stay afloat.

 

[MeanGreen]

Part of the issue is knowledge as well.

This community, if you take the time, replaces the key component of of "local" place. Expertise and knowledge sharing.

I felt as though at a LHBS they were only interested in me moving up from Extract to AG etc as a means to sell me more items. I don't begrudge them that. They are in business to make a profit.

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

I understand but I think the business model is flawed. I think you do better with more customers. I think in general most HB would want to support LHBS. Wouldn't they sell more products with more customers? Maybe your right and they just can't make it any other way but I tend to think that more happy customers that are not using you only because they are last minute or naive would be better. I would love to here from any shop owners or vendors our there. Thoughts?

 

[camiller]

I want to be able to support my local shop. I really do. I think it is important and a foundation to the health of our hobby. But how do I do it when their prices are so high. I was in a pinch for a 1/2"NPT M/M nipple and they charged over $10 a piece! ...

Advice and thoughts appreciated.

I think you should also support you local hardware store! Seriously, why are you buying common hardware from a LHBS. While my LHBS does stock harder to find but commonly needed in brewing hardware you would not even find a freaking pipe nipple there.

That said, lets talk a little about homebrew ingredient pricing. (Disclaimer: I work Saturdays for my LHBS)

Most small LHBS in the US buy all (or most) of their ingredients through one of four wholesalers; Crosby & Baker, BrewCraft, Brewmaster Inc. (not to be confused with Brewmasters Warehouse which is a LHBS), and LD Carlson. These wholesalers provide valuable services like repackaging specialty grains into 1 pound packages, hops into 1 or 2 ounce bags, or bulk chemicals into smaller packages. A lot of LHBS run with just 1 or 2 employees and simply don't have the time to do this themselves there is also the expense of keeping a scale certified for trade by the state which in my state is an annual inspection which you as a retailer have to pay for. Even with that my LHBS doesn't want to deal with someone coming back and saying we shorted them. As far as hops go keeping the equipment to do nitrogen purged heat sealed Mylar foil bags is another expense that makes more sense for a wholesaler to spread out over a much larger number of packages.

Grain: Many LHBSs don't have enough All-grain brewers to justify buying grain by the pallet (or their All grain brewers do group buys) and so their grain comes from the wholesaler as well, which has their own markup over Country Malt Group or Brewers Supply Group. That said my LHBS still manages to sell a 25kg(55Lb) bag of Wyermann Pilsner malt for $40 compared to $53.99 at AHS for a 40Lb bag of German Pilsner malt. (I understand they have to cover the flat rate shipping problem)

Hops: Some of your shops might still have inventory of certain hop varieties they acquired when hop prices were high. It is hard for a business person to stomach the fact that he might need to take a loss on that to move it now. My LHBS still has some '08 (and one or two '07) hops that they had to pay dearly for when hop prices were high. Fortunately most of the really common ones moved and they did lower the prices as new lower cost stocks came in. Also, some (one) of the wholesalers have not lowered their prices (or only slightly lowered them) since the run up a while back, if your LHBS is only dealing with that wholesaler they might be stuck and not even know that other wholesalers are cheaper (if you haven't established an account with them the other wholesalers are not going to give you their price list).

Yeast: It is hard to guess what special strains of liquid yeasts brewers might want. Some LHBS just keep the most common on hand a maybe do a special order once every one or two months to get brewers their more unusual strains. Other LHBS try to keep at least one of each available strain on hand in hopes that someone will buy it but invariably a strain or four will get past the expiration date. If your LHBS is only buying 20 (or less) vials/smackpacks a month (a lot of homebrewers still stick to dry yeast) you still buy through the wholesalers. Dry yeasts are easier since they keep longer so you keep 40-50 of the common ones (Notty, US-05) and 10 or so of the least common (WB-06, S-23) and somewhere in the middle for the others.

Misc hardware: On common stuff your LHBS is never going to beat the local big box store or McMaster. Heck if they even have pipe nipples they probably buy them locally and mark them up to cover the effort / inventory carrying cost. Worst case the LHBS buys hardware through one of the previously mentioned wholesalers which are hideously expensive. For specialty hardware they should get an account with Foxx equipment period. If the LHBS is buying special stuff through a homebrew wholesaler their getting ripped off maybe paying 3-5 times as much on some things.

I've spent entirely too much time composing this, got to get back to work.

 

[cheezydemon3]

My main gripe is that they won&#8217;t split pounds of specialty grains

WTF?????

The main benefit of the LHBS is when I need 3 oz of roasted or 8 oz of crystal 120 (that I don't normally use) and I don't want the rest of the pound lying around for 8 months.

 

[camiller]

My main gripe is that they won’t split pounds of specialty grains

WTF?????

The main benefit of the LHBS is when I need 3 oz of roasted or 8 oz of crystal 120 (that I don't normally use) and I don't want the rest of the pound lying around for 8 months.

Admittedly, I haven't been in a lot of other homebrew shops by my LHBS doesn't split one pound packages either. Like I said in my previous post my LHBS does not maintain a scale certified for trade. If your LHBS is large enough that they package their own specialty grains then they probably have no problem selling you whatever small amount you want. If on the other hand they buy the one pound packages pre-packaged by the wholesaler then they probably won't want to split up packages.

 

[kcinpdx]

We're a bit spoiled in Portland - Steinbarts, Above the Rest, Let's Brew, Brewbros.biz and a newer place in N. Portland whose name escapes me. Now the prices are not stellar, but not bad either. The best in price so far is brewbros.biz - about .82 cents / lb base malt, 50# bag 2 row about $30. They also have delivery points all over the city at set times and places where you can pick up stuff - a great feature for a supplier!Steinbart's dropped hops prices quite a bit too. Craigslist is typically full of hops farmers who will sell direct - I bought cascade last Fall for 15$/ lb. Needless to say I don't think I've ever mail ordered ingredients. Hardware - another story...

 

[brettwasbtd]

My homebrew store has pretty competitive prices. I buy online for some items, but I have a little different reason. Both myself and my fiance are still living with our respective parents and are 2 hours away from each other. We take turns visiting each other on weekends, but I seem to go to her more often. My Homebrew shop closes at 6PM and is not open on Sundays. I cannot make it during the weekdays because of work, and I am often not around on Saturdays to buy ingredients. They also don't open until 10AM on Saturdays and when I brew I like to get an early start (like 8am). So sometimes I will buy online on a monday so I can have my ingredients ready for a brewday. I guess I could always have my mom go to the store for me... but online can sometimes just be easier.

I would use my LHBS 100% if I lived here full time as I could pick up ingredients in the afternoon on a saturday so I would be ready for the next. I actually plan to line up my next couple brews and just by all my specialty grains/hops and yeast so I won't have this problem.

 

[Henrythe9th]

My local shop is good, 50lb Great western pale ale malt $43.00 MO $52.00.
they have a bulk grain deal where you can buy in at bag prices and take the grain home as you need it, they track your usage. that way you don't have year old grain by the time you use up say 50lbs of crystal120..
they also started refilling your empty PBW containers for 2 bucks less than buying a new lb of PBW..
they buy everything in bulk and repackage, avg hops $2.75 to $3.95 for 2ozs.

for being the only shop for 150 miles you would think they had competition besides the inter-webs

 

[Got Trub?]

I think it's easy to overlook how much it costs to run these small independent shops. Most of these guys aren't getting rich. It's easy to say "that's a ridiculous markup," but we have no idea what they actually paid for the item, or what their operational costs are. Not to mention that it costs more to stock something you don't sell a lot of.

Not trying to be argumentative here - I'm about to place an online order right now - just saying that most of these little shops aren't trying to gouge us, many are just trying to stay afloat.

Agree. I had a brief conversation with the proprietor of my LHBS about getting the belgian candy syrup you see at More Beer and Northern Brewer. He told me his regional supplier doesn't carry it and if he orders it from another source it becomes much too expensive. He'd rather not carry it and have me order it online. He has great selection and prices are reasonable on brewing essentials, some specialty items can be had significantly cheaper online so I order them there.

GT

 

[artyboy]

My LHBS is fine. I know that I could get it cheaper elsewhere but I like having the convenience of being able to go down the street to pick up what I need when I need it. I'd save "a lot" of money if I just planned everything a week or two ahead and bought everything online. By "a lot" I mean probably $10 or so for the batch. Personally, I don't go by percentages. I go by dollars. Being able to buy a pound of hops for cheap is awesome but if you're using different hops varieties every brew day then it's not much of a savings. When I can get into a bulk buy I can get base malt ridiculously cheap (last time it was $25 per 50# bag) but those are few and far between and I brew enough that it goes fast. I just pay the premium at my LHBS in between bulk buys. Things like specialty malts, special ingredients and stuff like airlocks, bottlecaps, corks and crap like that are what I really like about having an LHBS. Of course, if I didn't buy some of the other meat and potatoes stuff then they wouldn't be in business. I shop at my LHBS because it's convenient. Unless I'm thinking ahead and really desperate to save a few bucks it's kind of a waste of time to buy online.

 

[silver97232]

Well I love my lhbs, and I support them to an extent that works for both of us. I buy hops from hopsdirect and my malt I get delivered in bulk from brewbrothers. I also culture and repitch yeast, but for specialty malts, new yeast strains adjuncts bottlecaps etc I go with the store.

I figure it's better for both parties, I can afford to brew more so I still spend $70 a month in the store. I also try and get people into the store to help support it.

 

[kmk1012]

I agree with kcinpdx, I love living in the fruitfull Willamette Valley-hops are abundant! I drive up to Portland from Salem once a month to purchase my ingredients for the month. The local shop here in Salem buys his supplies from one of the same shops that I go to!

 

[mkorpal]

I used to shop online almost exclusively. It was a bit cheaper if I bought 5 batches at once, and used flatrate shipping. But I'm getting tired of having that much grain around, I just don't have room. I finally found a good brewshop around me, with good prices. 1.25/# on 2-row. 2.50/oz on whole leaf hops. Pleanty of good specialty grains for around 2 per pound. So, I think I will be using them more often.

I also like the human side of it. The guy there is great. He can help you with everything you need, he is genuinely interested in my brew, and can help me modify it if I need to. Plus, it's nice to not need to plan so far ahead. And I keep the money I spend in the community, and I'm not shipping yeast across county. So, yeah, I think I'll stick with them.