Liquid yeast question
- Thread starter Paulh13
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Probably. But that's the best answer you can get.
You'll want to make a "starter" and pay attention to how that behaves to know for sure.
In the future, in summer, it's a good time to consider dry yeast over liquid.
You'll want to make a "starter" and pay attention to how that behaves to know for sure.
In the future, in summer, it's a good time to consider dry yeast over liquid.
Was it shipped by itself or in a larger box with other stuff, helping to create a temperature buffer?
As @tracer bullet already said, with liquid you should always make a starter.
Aside from proving viability, you'll ramp up the cell count and can save some out for a next starter. By doing so that one pack can be used for years.
Use a yeast pitch calculator to plan your starter size based on "assessed" viability (number of viable cells), such as this one:
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If the pack got overheated for longer times while in transit, it may not very viable, but chances are there are always a "few hundred cells" that survived the ordeal.
As @tracer bullet already said, with liquid you should always make a starter.
Aside from proving viability, you'll ramp up the cell count and can save some out for a next starter. By doing so that one pack can be used for years.
Use a yeast pitch calculator to plan your starter size based on "assessed" viability (number of viable cells), such as this one:
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If the pack got overheated for longer times while in transit, it may not very viable, but chances are there are always a "few hundred cells" that survived the ordeal.
Most places offer an ice pack . As mentioned always use a starter with liquid .
The big question with those is how long they can keep the yeast cold, or at least cooler, while in transit.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
I'm not sure where you live, Paul, but here in DC I tend to only mail order liquid yeast during two windows in the year: 1) Oct-Dec and, 2) late-Feb-April. Outside of those two windows, packages can be subjected to serious, prolonged heat or prolonged freezing temperatures. I've spent a fair bit of time in various trailers and shipping containers and they're either scorching hot or deepfreezes. There's no such thing as a comfortable trailer, sir!
As Lizard mentioned above, those ice packs and insulated sleeves are only useful for a a short period of time, perhaps mere hours during the summer. Subsequently, if I do mail order liquid yeast, I like to get at least a couple 5lb sacks of malt to bulk up the thermal mass and stability of my package--twenty pounds is better.
That may seem like a major inconvenience, but it really isn't. Once you learn how to reuse your yeast and spend a little time each year planning out your brewing calendar, it's no big deal.
Hope that helps.
As Lizard mentioned above, those ice packs and insulated sleeves are only useful for a a short period of time, perhaps mere hours during the summer. Subsequently, if I do mail order liquid yeast, I like to get at least a couple 5lb sacks of malt to bulk up the thermal mass and stability of my package--twenty pounds is better.
That may seem like a major inconvenience, but it really isn't. Once you learn how to reuse your yeast and spend a little time each year planning out your brewing calendar, it's no big deal.
Hope that helps.
If they sandwich the yeast pack, they should go 3 - 4 days with no problem, I guess it depends on where it was kept during transit also . However, 7 days is quite a bit , so if no packs were present, then.....
No indication where it was shipped from or two, but it doesn't take a meteorologist to figure out that there is no place in the continental U.S. where it wasn't brutally hot for at least a few of those 7 days.
Jag, you're good people and I'm certainly not taking a shot at you! I thought the following remarks would be useful to illustrate the reality of what an icepack/insulated mailer goes through.If they sandwich the yeast pack, they should go 3 - 4 days with no problem, I guess it depends on where it was kept during transit also . However, 7 days is quite a bit , so if no packs were present, then.....
Frankly, I don't put much faith in icepacks. Often the yeast arrives sitting on top of the grain, under the packslip. So the thermal mass and buffering that I wrote about above often doesn't really matter.
A great example of this happened late this past Saturday morning, I drove from my home in SE DC to Annapolis Homebrew (38miles per Apple Maps) to get some liquid Whitbread for some summer UK/Australian brewing.
I keep an insulated mailer and its icepacks in my freezer for runs out to Annapolis HB or myLHBS in Seven Corners, VA (both outstanding LHBSs--I'm lucky to have them!). It was in the 90's and sunny when I made the 76 mile, ~2hr round trip.
I drive a Miata and I'm militant about keeping the top down whenever possible. It was a hot, sweaty drive but waaaay more comfortable than the conditions you'd experience in a 52' trailer during state-to-state transit, a loading dock, or even a delivery truck out for final delivery. I can't emphasize this enough, it is murderously hot in a trailer.
On the run out to Annapolis I stashed the mailer and its icepacks under the passenger seat. When I left the shop they were anything but frozen, but still quite cold to the touch. When I arrived home it was certainly cooler than ambient, but the yeast was nowhere near where you want to be storing yeast. Fortunately, yeast are tougher than we give them credit for. That said, I sure wouldn't have wanted to drive a further hour.
It's also worth mentioning that the conditions that I experienced were ideal. Your order gets pulled, packed, and then placed on loading dock to await the next truck. During that time, it's getting warmer. Then it's driven to a distribution center, where it waits hours to be loaded into a trailer...all the while getting warmer and warmer.
See what I'm getting at?
With all that said, I still click the double icepack/insulated mailer boxes. Frankly, I know I'm pissing away money, but every little helps.
Very much the way I see it, with similar experiences too! ^
Having a well-stocked LHBS within reasonable driving distance is also a wonderful asset. And I'm very fortunate to be close enough to 2 of those...
Very true . The time that I've had to order I've been lucky that I get my order within a few days and the yeast was still cool . It sucks not having a LHBS anymore, but luckily im in California close to Morebeer. When we order liquid yeast at the Brewery it usually takes a few days shipping. Imperial yeast has been good to us . Well insulated box with ice packs . Of course we order 3bbl ready pitch . Very rarely do I use liquid yeast anymore .
You have valid points and I don't feel as your taking a shot at me .
Not ideal conditions for liquid yeast, but make a starter, and you'll be fine. I make starters with every liquid pack anyway!
I'm much the same.
Aside from the Fullers and T. Taylor strains (which I keep year round), I don't see much point in liquid anymore. Dry is cheap, isn't fussy, and provided you're willing to invest the time into properly drilling into a strain and really learning it and adjusting your processes to accommodate that strain (and, as a homebrewer, ignoring the "yOu aLwAys nEEd tO dO A sPliT fErmEnTaTiOn!!!! nonsense) it's pretty amazing what you can accomplish with contemporary dried strains--provided you're disciplined enough to take your notes and patiently put in the work.
I recently gave Jasper's Franconian Lager Yeast (a liquid heritage German lager strain that lost favor in the 1950s-60s) a try through three 6gal batches. To nobody's surprise, it made lager beer just as 34/70 or S-189 would have done. It's closer to S-189 and not worth the bother. If Jasper can gain nationwide traction I'm sure it will eventually become a fad, much like Mexican lager yeast, because homebrewers prefer magic yeast strains over hard, detailed, boring work.
I'm just echoing here, but with liquid or dry, I do starters so that I can save some for next time. After about a year or so, they move out of the "tasty" range and then I buy again. It takes away the variables of old or heat damaged (unless it's truly dead).
I've kept liquid yeast (ranched from starters) for many years (in the fridge) without any noticeable issues, taste or otherwise.
Some are well over 7 years old since bought.
In my case it was the mail lady. She never raised the red flag and I didn't know it was there. My Kolsch yeast was indeed hot, or at least very warm. Tossed in the fridge and plan on making a starter soon. I will drive an hour to buy it next time if I do need it in the summer.
Generally the red flag on a mailbox is to signal the USPS carrier there's mail to be picked up! I'm surprised to hear your carrier reciprocates. Can't blame her, in any which way, for not raising the flag, though....
It can easily get over 100F in those mailboxes, so viability may be down. I'd count on doing an extra round of starter to get your intended count, and have some leftover to make another starter from in the near future.
I was thinking the same regarding mail box flags, but Cavan is in Ireland...
Cheers!
Cheers!
