Liquid Yeast Beers Always Seem a Bit... Well, Not as Good as Dried Yeast

[grathan]

I just can't picture shaking 7 gallons vigorously and getting enough 02.

 

[nicklawmusic]

I allowed the wort to splash into the fermentor from a hight and then shook 6 gallons in that fermentor. An additional gallon went in a demijohn and that got shook too. They were both shaken for 5 minutes.

 

[nicklawmusic]

You'll all be relieved to know that I placed them in a warm room for a few days and cracked one open today. Tastes good!

 

[azazel1024]

well please do make a new thread telling us all how you've refined the process to get it to carb up in 4 days. you're definitely the exception to the rule of bottle conditioning. i've never heard of bottles carbed in four days unless they were force carbed. like not once. ever. i've heard some people claim a week and a half, but really if you get those guys to admit it, it wasn't fully carbed, just carbed enough that they enjoyed it. so please enlighten us all so we can all save 2 1/2 weeks in our process! i just bottled some yesterday in order to enjoy them at a friend's birthday in 3 weeks. if i can enjoy them in four days, i would be one happy camper, as they are a very hop-forward beer!

Well, warmer bottle conditioning temperatures should speed carbonation. I don't know how yeast activity corresponds to fermentation rate, but with my limited experience both between primary fermentation and bottle conditioning...

Fermenting at 72F versus 62F seems to take roughly 50-75% longer. Bottle conditioning seems to take roughly 50% longer at 65F vs 75F (about 3 weeks opposed to about 2 weeks).

Most of the time in the summer if I am bottling it is at about 80% carbonation after just 1 week, but it still needs at least another week to fully absorb all of the CO2 in to the beer as well as produce that last little bit of carbonation. Then I typically notice the beer getting "better" from bottle conditioning anything from another 2-3 weeks up to around 3-4 months depending on the brew (but that is different than carbonation of course).

On the fermentation side of things, doing a Rye APA at 62F (temp on my slab in the winter) using S-05 took roughly 3-4 days of krausening after fermentation kicked off and another 2 weeks to finish out. At 72F (slab temp in summer) using S-05 with a roughly similar gravity, seems to only have around 2 days of Krausen and it tends to finish out in about another 10 days.

 

[joshesmusica]

Well, warmer bottle conditioning temperatures should speed carbonation. I don't know how yeast activity corresponds to fermentation rate, but with my limited experience both between primary fermentation and bottle conditioning...

Fermenting at 72F versus 62F seems to take roughly 50-75% longer. Bottle conditioning seems to take roughly 50% longer at 65F vs 75F (about 3 weeks opposed to about 2 weeks).

Most of the time in the summer if I am bottling it is at about 80% carbonation after just 1 week, but it still needs at least another week to fully absorb all of the CO2 in to the beer as well as produce that last little bit of carbonation. Then I typically notice the beer getting "better" from bottle conditioning anything from another 2-3 weeks up to around 3-4 months depending on the brew (but that is different than carbonation of course).

On the fermentation side of things, doing a Rye APA at 62F (temp on my slab in the winter) using S-05 took roughly 3-4 days of krausening after fermentation kicked off and another 2 weeks to finish out. At 72F (slab temp in summer) using S-05 with a roughly similar gravity, seems to only have around 2 days of Krausen and it tends to finish out in about another 10 days.

how exactly does one go about measuring precise carbonation levels?
i never argued higher temps helping to carbonate beers quicker.
still have never heard of anyone besides the one guy getting full carbonation in 4 days. at least not unless there was a problem with their beer.

 

[azazel1024]

Oh, I have no CLUE how the heck you'd get full carbonation in 4 days, let alone all the CO2 levels reaching equilibrium with the beer. Just that I have noticed a fairly large difference in temperature versus carbonation rate.

The 80% is a VERY rough guess. Subjectively more than half carbonated, but less than fully carbonated.

 

[nicklawmusic]

I've just had a Red Rye that I made after five days and it's only half carbonated. I've never had full carbonation after a week or so, usually two or three!

 

[LexusChris]

Interesting thread with lots of great comments!

Initially, I would just assume that dry or liquid yeast would not make a big difference. How you take those delivery mediums and turn them into 'happy healthy yeast' at appropriate pitching rates... should be more the issue, as discussed above.

Tracking down 'odd flavors' in the occasional brew is frustrating at times. Every time you think you have good notes, you wish you had tracked just 1 more variable on that batch 3 months ago, etc. On my last mystery, I ended up making a chart of my last 10 brews, and just kept adding variables from all parts of the process & recipe, then it was easier to see areas to explore for improvement. (e.g. what I thought was a hop variety issue, was likely a mash pH issue instead)

When you mentioned 'dull' tasting, I initially thought about your water. Same water treatment for good beer vs. dull beer? Same recipe? Some water is naturally better at darker beers, others lighter, others hoppy, etc. Just another variable to look into if you think your yeast prep process was pretty similar for both...

Good luck,
--LexusChris

 

[azazel1024]

You'll all be relieved to know that I placed them in a warm room for a few days and cracked one open today. Tastes good!

Deffinitely been there. I've had some brews, using the EXACT same strain of yeast and roughly the same gravity, that seemed good at 2-3 weeks and improved only a little with time. I've had others that were frankly bad (I don't mean actively disgusting, I just mean dull, lifeless, off) at 2-3 weeks that after another 2-3 weeks were frankly pretty good.

My recent Rye APA falls in to that. At 2 weeks it was mostly carbonated, but just tasted bleh. Another week and it seemed a little better. At 4 weeks its actually decent and now roughly 5 1/2wks on it is decent.

This being my 3rd Rye beer (as opposed to using just a little rye in things) I think I've come to the conclusion that I am just not a huge fan of "big" rye taste in a beer, but it did turn from a beer that I thought I just might dump, or only use in cooking, to something that is drinkable and fair, if not exciting. Probably my fault though with the hopping. I was using fresh Amarillo (1oz) as well as a BUNCH of ancient cascade (not properly stored, a good year old).

So the IBUs and flavor/aroma of the hops is much lower than what I had planned. Was shooting for around 45IBU...tastes more like a 30IBU beer and I notice zero cascade flavor or aroma, only amarillo.

So I'll probably give a Rye APA a shot ONE more time, with fresh hops this time and I might even go higher on the Rye (I used only about 25% Rye, I'll try more like 35% next time).

 

[badlee]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=519173

As suggested ladies and lads.