Liquid Lager Yeast not starting?

[bottlebomber]

A little off topic here, but im kind of gearing up to do my first lager and I was wondering about the stater- do you allow it to ferment out at ale temperatures? The wort will be decanted off anyway, but will this have an effect on the yeast. I really don't want to put my stirplate in the refrigerator

 

[Yooper]

A little off topic here, but im kind of gearing up to do my first lager and I was wondering about the stater- do you allow it to ferment out at ale temperatures? The wort will be decanted off anyway, but will this have an effect on the yeast. I really don't want to put my stirplate in the refrigerator

Yes. You can make the starter at room temperature. After all, you're growing yeast, not making the beer. If you're decanting, then room temperature is fine!

 

[Delaney]

Ok so I cannot buy more of the yeast strain I'd been using anytime soon...Should I give this more time and raise temps a bit, or keep it cool and use a dry lager yeast?

 

[jigidyjim]

LOLLLLL

I just went to the beer store, the idiot owner was re-iterating what his employee told me the other day, which was that you can just pitch that single yeast pack straight into the primary for a 5 gallon batch. I told him he was incorrect, and to verify this with the WYEAST website that contradicts such information...he told me I was wrong, and that it will just take longer to ferment with a single package, but that it has no effect on the quality of the beer...

It doesn't help that the WYEAST package isteld does indicate that a single package is to be added directly to the primary fermenter for a 5 gallon batch of beer, at room temperature. This contradicts their website information, which specifies that for a lager it's necessary to use a started, or two packages in order to obtain 12 million yeast/ml...


I'm pissed...at WYEAST and the redneck Quebecer's who only care about ABV%.

Furhermore, the store only had a propagator(25 billion) package of my yeast strain left, not an activator (100 billion)...The owner told me he'd give it to me half price since it was a year old! lol...what a joke, somebody just lost my business.

It's a shame that Wyeast isn't more forthcoming about best practices (and therefore, shopkeeps like yours would be more educated).

To be fair, it is possible to ferment with just one pack, but it will take longer, the pack has to be fairly fresh, and you probably have to ferment warmer (at least at first, like wyeast recommends). So I don't think anyone is "lying" - except for maybe if someone says there's no difference in quality.

 

[Delaney]

Exactly...and I was just telling the guy that it would affect quality to pitch at 6 million yeast/ml(which one package delivers), as well as the fact that starting it at a higher temp affects the flavour.

He got pissed and wouldn't listen to what I was saying...All I was suggesting was that he take a look at this: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_lagerbrewing.cfm...which explains that starting it at a lower temp also produces better quality lager...he was an old man and didn't want to listen to what a young guy had to say is all.


So for now I leave it at 70-75F until things get going, then drop the temp down?
Add dry yeast if that doesn't work?

or should I add dry yeast ASAP?

 

[Yooper]

Ok so I cannot buy more of the yeast strain I'd been using anytime soon...Should I give this more time and raise temps a bit, or keep it cool and use a dry lager yeast?

How long ago did you pitch? If it's been more than 72 hours, you should consider raising the temperatures a bit if there has not been any activity. If you're under 72 hours, keep it at 50 degrees and wait it out.

 

[Delaney]

How long ago did you pitch? If it's been more than 72 hours, you should consider raising the temperatures a bit if there has not been any activity. If you're under 72 hours, keep it at 50 degrees and wait it out.

It's now at 81 hours with no sign of yeast activity...last SG was taken at 72 hours, with no fermentation detected....

at about the 68 hour mark I removed the lager from my fridge, it's in my wine cellar which will bring the wort temp to 73-75F...I intend to leave it there for a while...until something happens

Would I achieve better results to wait it out and allow the WYEAST yeast time to take hold, or just pitch dry lager yeast at this point?

 

[bottlebomber]

The dry yeast would probably be great, id imagine lager yeasts have a pretty clean profile so its not like your hoping for some particular yeast profile... just get that baby fermenting

 

[Delaney]

yeah I think I'll take another reading at 92 hours (when the brew store opens)and if things haven't kicked into gear by then Ill throw in a few packs of dry yeast

 

[Delaney]

1.052 is the SG now from 1.053/1/1.054 12 hours ago....It might be fermenting just very slowly.

The beer store is CLOSED today! Somebody crashed a vehicle into the store next door, so there's police tape surrounding the whole area...

I guess I'll have to wait another day...bringing it to 124 hours tomorrow...or drive 3 hours through traffic...just my luck

 

[bottlebomber]

1.052 is the SG now from 1.053/1/1.054 12 hours ago....I think I'll go buy a couple packs of Saflager S-23 very shortly, and use this. Whichever is stronger will dominate

Im not sure if it really works that way, the yeast competing to take the other strain over... im pretty sure they will both just do their own thing till the works done. Some yeasts that you can buy are actually a blend of more than one variety. I don't know if that's what you meant, but I've heard people talk about being nervous that the one yeast will kill the other or something like that, as if they're opposing armies. The yeasties are all on the same team

 

[Delaney]

Im not sure if it really works that way, the yeast competing to take the other strain over... im pretty sure they will both just do their own thing till the works done. Some yeasts that you can buy are actually a blend of more than one variety. I don't know if that's what you meant, but I've heard people talk about being nervous that the one yeast will kill the other or something like that, as if they're opposing armies. The yeasties are all on the same team

Interesting...I'll have to read up more on yeast

But the store is closed today so Im out of luck there anyways

 

[Delaney]

Well I'm glad I didn't go buy more yeast...

It's going strong now 110 hours after pitching

 

[bottlebomber]

Well I'm glad I didn't go buy more yeast...

It's going strong now 110 hours after pitching

Keep us updated on. How it turns out. That's the longest lag time I've ever heard of (I mean most brews are done with active by then) and im curious how that would effect the flavor

 

[Delaney]

Yeah I think I under-pitched, and therefore wort temperature played a factor also...

I pitched at 85F, and immediately placed the wort in my fridge, where the temperature dropped slowly to 50F. After about 72 hours, I saw no activity, therefore I took it to my wine cellar to kick start it and the temperature rose back to 73-75F. Now that things are rolling, it's cooling back to 50F in my fridge.

I'll give it a 48 hour rest at 65-75F before secondary...I think I'll leave it in primary another 12 days since it took so long to get going.

Will let you know how it evolves.

 

[Delaney]

Hmmm so it's been over a week since the krausen appeared and it is still going really strong! Is this normal for a lager? I've never seen anything like this...

Should I be racking it into the secondary soon, or allow an extra 4 or 5 days for primary given the nature of the situation...I feel horrible about racking the beer when the krausen is bouncing around and having so much fun!

 

[Delaney]

Keep us updated on. How it turns out. That's the longest lag time I've ever heard of (I mean most brews are done with active by then) and im curious how that would effect the flavor

Hey,

The beer is all gone now. It turned out extremely well, this is arguably the nicest beer I've made so far. There were no detectable off flavours/aromas. I bottled after 5 weeks, but it could have been left a little longer, as there was a small amount of residue in the bottles. It was extremely smooth to drink. I am going to be more careful with my pitch rates in the future when making lager, but the effects of under-pitching seem to have been negligible. If anything it delayed drinking the beer by a week. My father who has expressed little interest in beer making loved it so much that he wants me to teach him the ways of this honey lager. It was a huge success.