Light or Lite hoppy beer recipe process

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InspectorJon

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I want to make something like Lagunitas DayTime, a low carb, low calorie beer. They did an interesting write up on DayTime and the lite beer concept, Beer 101: Low Carb IPA. I do not necessarily want to clone this beer but want to learn how to make something like it. @shoreman started a thread here that hasn't gone far but has some general information.

For the sake of definition I’m going to say “lite” beer is low in calories and low in carbs. Low calorie will mean lower ABV since alcohol = calories. Low carb will require very low FG with little or no sugar (fermentable or not) or starch left in solution. One might also call this a session beer but I feel like that does not necessarily mean low carb. So we are looking for a low carb session beer.

This light/lite beer is not a BJCP Light Lager which is a "Highly carbonated, very light-bodied, nearly flavorless lager designed to be consumed very cold. Very refreshing and thirst quenching". I am assuming the Lagunitas version is an ale and it is certainly not nearly flavorless.

A few excerpts from the Lagunitas site:
Where most beer styles are defined by flavor, Sessions are about the combo of drinkability & low-alcohol content (ABV). At only 98 Cals, 3 Carbs & 4% ABV, DayTime IPA represents everything we know about making hop-forward beer.

DayTime IPA is a gentle canvas of malts and fluff-ifying oats splashed with a cannonball of hops—lots of Centennial and Citra hops. ABV 4% 30 IBU 1.036 OG

The problem comes in that, typically, the brewer is not able to convert all the starch in the grain into maltose or other fermentable sugars. In traditional and craft brewing, there is always a measure of unfermentable carbohydrates left behind that make it into the final product. . . . So how do we go about reducing carbs? The answer comes in two forms. If you want to get pretty close to a low carb beer, you start by lowering your mash temperature. This allows your alpha-amylase to work for longer before it degrades due to high heat (again, go read that January article!). The longer your alpha-amylase works for, the more maltose you will form, the more fermentable your wort will be and the less starch, and hence carbs, will be left over in the final product.


(What is) the modern process of low-carb beer production - It is as simple as adding an exogenous enzyme called amyloglucosidase (or gamma-amylase). These enzymes (often taken from Aspergillus, a fungi) are incredibly good at cleaving all the bonds in starch, creating free glucose, which yeast like even better than maltose. This enzyme can either be added to the mash (Lagunitas style) or the fermenter. By adding it to the mash, we ensure it doesn’t accidentally get into beers it isn’t supposed to, however the efficiency is just a little less.

I am assuming that amyloglucosidase is the same thing as Glucoamylase that folks use in brut beer? @bracconiere
 
Here is a rough first draft:

1.036 OG worth of malt.
90% two row or pilsner malt
10% oats, malted or flaked
2:1 Centennial:Citra hops, 10 min and flame out for 30 IBU
DayTime has a little haze so I'm thinking a moderate dryhop with Citra and another citrus/pine hop.
A light hoppy water profile with plenty of calcium but not real high in sulfates.
Glucoamylase in the mash and maybe fermenter also.
Mash @145F/63C 90 min.
A higher attenuating west coast ale yeast.

I'm not sure how to put this in a recipe calculator. Am I right in assuming that the Gluco will change the brewhouse efficiency to be a higher number? Anyone have experience with this?
 
i tried adding gluco to the mash, and the beer didn't go dry. if i tried it in the mash again, i'd probably try a reverse step mash. maybe sparge with room temp water and when the grain bed hit's something like 120f add the gluco? not sure, i've just always added my gluco to the fermenter....
 
i usually eyeball ~1g/gallon. so i add about 11-12grms to a 10 gallon batch of 1.060 OG wort.. gets me down to .999-1.001 in good order...

i'd say your recipe sounds good for a hoppy light beer. what i mean is i'd like drinking it :mug:

edit: with the yeast pitch.
 
I suppose you could also use the Mangrove Jack's M29 (French Saison), M41 (Belgian Ale) and M31 (Belgian Tripel) yeasts. No, you won't get as low as using amylase enzymes, but definitely low enough so that remaining calories really don't matter.

I have brewed two year in a row a low alcohol beer (well, a saison, but is it still a saison when one uses diastatic abbey yeasts? But the spirit is saison; low FG, high bitterness, low alcohol) (3,9%, that's including carbonation which is 3 volumes of CO2), with only Merkur (a disease resistant Magnum) as hop for bittering and flavor. Rather high bittering for the first hop gift, then rather high before the end of the boil (15 minutes) for the flavor gift. The tannins from the hop should help the body and the mouth feel of the beer.
 
I suppose you could also use the Mangrove Jack's M29 (French Saison), M41 (Belgian Ale) and M31 (Belgian Tripel) yeasts. No, you won't get as low as using amylase enzymes, but definitely low enough so that remaining calories really don't matter.

I have brewed two year in a row a low alcohol beer (well, a saison, but is it still a saison when one uses diastatic abbey yeasts? But the spirit is saison; low FG, high bitterness, low alcohol) (3,9%, that's including carbonation which is 3 volumes of CO2), with only Merkur (a disease resistant Magnum) as hop for bittering and flavor. Rather high bittering for the first hop gift, then rather high before the end of the boil (15 minutes) for the flavor gift. The tannins from the hop should help the body and the mouth feel of the beer.
I am not a fan of most Belgian beers. My pallet has never learned to appreciate the clove and banana flavors. I am struggling with the Brewers Friend recipe calculator trying to find how they get only 3 carbs in the final product. Lagunitas claims 1.036 OG, 4% ABV and 3 Carbs. I can't find a way to match those calculations. I'm not focused on the calories so much as the carbs. Alcohol has no carbs.
 
I sacrificed half a can of DayTime in the name of research and degassed some to find a FG of 1.006. Well it was not a total sacrifice. I drank the 60 degree flat beer to analyze the flavor... Some digging @deadwolfbones seems to indicate that Lagunitas uses an English yeast strain (WLP002 / WYEAST 1968) but we don't know that for sure.
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So HERE is my first try at putting this in the Brewers Friend recipe calculator. I have assumed 83% attenuation based on gluco in the mash and not the fermenter. The crystal 10 is there because it's already mixed in the grain I have from Two Hearted kits I bought on sale. I can't get the carbs below 10 despite matching all of Lagunitas numbers pretty close. Switching out the crystal for 2 row doesn't seem to make much difference in that regard. To get the calories and carbs down I can lower the grain amount for 1.030 OG and boost the attenuation to 100% and get close to Lagunitas' numbers but the OG is too low. Maybe I'll have to try it both ways.
 
What if you subbed out some of your grain for pure sugar? Would obviously impact body, but I would think that would decrease the unfermentable carbs.
 
I tried substituting with 8 oz of cane sugar and #1 invert. It did not drop the carbs significantly. The can sugar lowered the FG and raised the alcohol and lowered the carbs slightly but not enough for the loss of character that I suspect it might induce. I want to avoid "nearly flavorless" thin Lite beer.
 
I found these comments in the comments section of a Brulosophy post on brewing a Brut IPA.

"Amylo™ 300 (glucoamylase) works optimally well in brew house mash at temperature of 55-62C~ (131-144F) and pH ranges of 5.4 – 5.6. Amylo™ 300 is active up to 65C (149F)."

"At our brewery we find that a rest at 144 for 60 minutes nets us a FG of 1.002 or lower, and we get to denature the wort in the boil to avoid any packaging issues that could happen."

There is a short sub-redit on Keto brewing. Some notes I found:
For enzymes added to the mash I mash at 145F for 1.3 hr, adding the enzyme during my pH check at 20 minutes. Always hit 1.000.

We’ve done ours at 142. With enzyme finished st 1.000

Techniques from Kim Sturdavant, arguably the originator of Brut IPA:
https://www.kimsbrutipa.org/techniques
More from Ken:
"I'm finding better results with fermentation character and hop aromatics by having no enzyme present in the fermentation."

Lastly, it is very important to add nutrient to the boil as well as 1/2 way through fermentation (with something like BSG's Startup) since the wort will be almost entirely glucose, there is not a lot of nutrition for the yeast.
 
Edited 10/1/22 to reflect actual brew day experience.
I am going to brew this tomorrow if the glucoamylase arrive in the mail today as it's suppose to.

Brewers Friend recipe builder
2 gallons into the fermentor (2.75 actual)
Grain
31 oz 63.1% Rahr - Standard 2-Row
15 oz 30.5% Quaker Quick Oats
3.10 oz 6.3% Caramel/Crystal 10L

Hops -T90 pellets, 2020 YVH
12 g Centennial Boil 10 min
6 g Citra Boil 10 min
12 18 g Centennial Whirlpool at 170 °F 20 min
6 12 g Citra Whirlpool at 170 °F 20 min
12 g Citra Dry Hop Day 5
5 6 g Sabro Dry Hop
66 g
Actual whirlpool was between 170 and 160

Mash
3.25 gal strike water, BIAB Infusion 144 °F 90 min
Add Glucoamylase when temp is stable below 146 °F
Actual mash was 148 at strike, let drop to 144 over 30 minutes. Added 3 grams gluco and held 144 for 90 minutes. I used dry powder gluco at 1 gram per pound of grain. Made a slurry with a small amount of filtered water and stirred that into the mash at 144 °F.

3.25 gallons of very soft mountain runoff water
1.5 g Calcium Chloride (dihydrate)
2.2 g Gypsum
Ca Mg Na Cl SO4
90 1.0 5.0 79 104
Bru'n Water predicts 5.22 pH, BF predicts 5.45pH

Intended 60 minute boil @ .75 gallon/hr loss
Actual - 50 Min boil @ .5 gallon/hr loss

Yeast, Imperial Yeast - A62 Bell because it’s in the fermentor now
Yeast is actually harvested and propped up from cans of Bell's Two Hearted.

Predictions:
Original Gravity: 1.036 (Had to dilute to achieve this.)
Final Gravity: 1.005
ABV: 4%
IBU: 30
SRM: 2.97

Brew Day Notes:
Predicted pre-boil gravity was 1.027. I ended up with 1.034 after mash. Brewer's Friend usually gets me very close but this was off by .007. I had to boost Brewhouse efficiency to 90% in the recipe builder to account for this. Normal for me is between 70 and 75%. I attribute this to to gluco and long mash. I boiled 10 minutes less than the plan and boiled very gently and still ended up with 1.040 FG. Added 1.4 quarts of water to bring gravity back down to 1.036. Racked sweet wort on top of yeast cake from a previous 1.75 gallon batch of 5% abv pale ale. Wort was 75 °F, I set fermentation temperature to 68 °F. Ink Bird temperature probe is fastened to the side of the fermentor and covered with 2 inches of foam insulation.
 
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Keep us updated with how the beer turns out @InspectorJon! I’m digging this thread and the different ways to use glucoamylase. I’ve been trying to find a way to make those dry lite beers, and save money on grain bills in the process.
 
So…when you pitch a small beer on a yeast cake it might be done in 20 hours.
Depends on what you mean by done. And I'm only assuming you meant done fermenting since you didn't specify and I just jumped in without reading every post.

IMO, sure a beer might be fully fermented in 20 hours. However that doesn't mean it ready to bottle. Other stuff happens after the ferment is over. Some things take much longer time.

Though it all depends on your beer and what in fact you wish it to be and what other processes you might be willing or un-willing to do before getting it in the glass.
 
Depends on what you mean by done. And I'm only assuming you meant done fermenting since you didn't specify and I just jumped in without reading every post.

IMO, sure a beer might be fully fermented in 20 hours. However that doesn't mean it ready to bottle. Other stuff happens after the ferment is over. Some things take much longer time.

Though it all depends on your beer and what in fact you wish it to be and what other processes you might be willing or un-willing to do before getting it in the glass.
It was bubbling hard in 1.5 hours post pitch. Krausen was up and gone in less than 20 hours after pitching. Gravity was measured at 1.008 42 hours post pitch. I don't normally sample this early but this is an experiment and I am curious. I thought it might be lower. I am hoping for a few points lower. I'll check again in a few days. If does not drop to at least 1.006 I think I will add some gluco to the fermentor. I'll let it sit for at least a week to "clean up" before I dry hop.
 
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7 days after brew day gravity is 1.006. I have swirled the yeast up a few times. Gravity sample tastes nice. Hazy pale straw color after sitting still for two days. I will soft crash to 45 °F in a couple days and hold for a day. Then I will raise up to 55 °F and dry hop for a day, then cold crash to low thirties for several days.
 
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follow-up?
1678197051595.jpeg
Thanks for the reminder. I have thought to update this several times but not when a keyboard was within reach.

I am (was) happy with the result. Light body, as expected. Nice hoppy character. I really liked this beer. Not really a clone of DayTime but in the ballpark. I will make this again when the weather warms up and I finish off the current dark beers I have brewed.
 
View attachment 814484Thanks for the reminder. I have thought to update this several times but not when a keyboard was within reach.

I am (was) happy with the result. Light body, as expected. Nice hoppy character. I really liked this beer. Not really a clone of DayTime but in the ballpark. I will make this again when the weather warms up and I finish off the current dark beers I have brewed.




took me a bit to figure out how you were balancing that glass on your fingers! ;) glad it turned out good.
 
View attachment 814484Thanks for the reminder. I have thought to update this several times but not when a keyboard was within reach.

I am (was) happy with the result. Light body, as expected. Nice hoppy character. I really liked this beer. Not really a clone of DayTime but in the ballpark. I will make this again when the weather warms up and I finish off the current dark beers I have brewed.
It looks perfect. I can bet, tastes perfect either. Nice.
 
Looks wonderful. I use a brewzilla, and I don't have temp control on my fermentation. I'm on Keto and would love to brew something like this. If I don't succeed, however - I can't drink it and stay on the keto track. I suppose small batch experimentation is key.
 
Looks wonderful. I use a brewzilla, and I don't have temp control on my fermentation. I'm on Keto and would love to brew something like this. If I don't succeed, however - I can't drink it and stay on the keto track. I suppose small batch experimentation is key.
Gluco in fermentor after boil should get you to 1.000 for even fewer carbs. I just used it in the mash. Look at the brut IPA threads.

The foam was not persistent at all. I attribute this to the large oat addition. A rest at a higher temperature might help that but seems counter intuitive in trying to achieve a low FG.
 
Gluco in fermentor after boil should get you to 1.000 for even fewer carbs. I just used it in the mash. Look at the brut IPA threads.
Ahh, I see why you used it now. It seemed counter intuitive to having some "body" in the beer but yes it'd help on the carbs.

Do you feel like it has some body, or don't really care? Maybe I should ask if you don't really miss it.

The low ABV recipes always intrigue me. There are times they are appropriate.
 
I’m not sure but I feel like an additional, higher temperature mash step might leave some unfermentable sugars upping the final carb count. I did the large oat addition hoping for body/viscosity in a low FG beer. It still ended up pretty thin but not as thin as the Michelob Ultra I was handed on a recent airplane ride. The things we do when there are no other options.

One could easily put these away pretty fast, which would defeat the reasoning behind a low carb beer. It was a refreshing thirst quenching drink with a nice hop presence. Kind of the opposite mouth feel of a NEIPA but still having a good hoppy flavor. One could do a lot of different things with the hops.
 
I had a brew day (3/18) Inspired in part by this thread and @InspectorJon posts here.

I went with glucoamylase a little hard, and might have ended up with something akin to a dry Japanese/international lager on accident.

Here’s a link to my post in the warm fermented lager thread to avoid cross posting:

Warm Fermented Lager Thread
 
Taking another run at this today,April 25, 2023, 4 gallon batch BIAB
5.25 gallon strike water with PPM 80 Ca, 1 Mg, 5 Na, 55 Chloride, 112 Sulfate
48 oz Rahr 2 row
10 oz Flaked oats
10 oz Malted oats
5 oz Crystal 10
4.56 lb total grain.

Mash in hit 149 degrees, let fall to 144 (about 30 minutes), added 6 grams Glucoamylase and continued to mash for an additional 90 minutes. Ended at 136F

Anticipated preboil gravity was 1.031, actual was 1.028
Planned 60 Minute boil, boiled 50 minutes before 30 minute hop addition to get closer to planned gravity. 80 minute actual boil. I used some malted oats this time, not sure if that was the reason for low post mash gravity of if it was just improperly adjusted efficiency setting in the brewing software. I pushed the efficiency setting up because I overshot gravity last time. I had it at 83% last time so I moved it up to 90% this time.

14g Centennial at 30 min, 18 IBU
14g Centennial at 10 minutes, 8.5 IBU
28g Mosaic, Whirlpool 15 minutes, add at 180F and let fall
33 IBU - BU/GU .9
1.034 OG,
Anticipated FG 1.004 FG, 3.9% ABV

Plan 11g Lallemand Nottingham yeast at 66 degrees for two days and then free rise to 70.
After 2 weeks cold crash to 38 degrees for two days.
Let rise to 55 and dry hop for 1 day
22g Mosaic
20g Galaxy, dry hop
9g Centennial.
8g Vic Secret, dry hop
 
Updating this thread. I bottled this on May 23 about one month after brewing. It was kind of over bitter/harsh at first. I attribute that to the Galaxy and Vic Secret in the dryhop. After it mellowed out it is quite good. IPA level of perceived bitterness. I think I will tone it down a bit next time given the low ABV and the light body. I’m pretty happy with this process. I have not been able to get it to finish below 1.006 only using gluco in the mash. It’s pretty good as a 4% dry pale ale.
1691876211820.jpeg
 
I don't know why I didn't see this thread before.

I've got a lot of experience using Ultraferm in the fermenter to ferment everything. My goal is reduce the carbohydrate content of the beer as much as possible.

I usually mash at 145F for three hours (while I'm working).
Add 12 ml Ultraferm to fermenter and final [adjusted] gravity will be .994 to 0.999. I've added Ultraferm to mash and not got the same results.

I've got a lot of recipe variations from 5 to 9%.

If I use >= 5% sugar, I can usually get the carbs down to 4-5 g / 12 oz with a 5% beer. The heavier the beer, the more the carbs creep up. My 8% IPA's are typically 6-10 g carbs.

When I use at least 15% oats, I've had people who can't tell it's a low carb beer. The oats seem to help with body, but not with foam retention. Pretty much zero foam retention.

Just this summer, I started using Clearzyme to break up the gluten molecules. Trying to get gluten out of my diet.
 
I'm planning another brew of this Lite Ale. I think I'll add some malted and flaked wheat to the recipe. Maybe that will help with the head retention. I will also substitute 10% sugar for some of the starting gravity points to lower the final carbs. I found this today in a Brewer's Friend recipe in the author's recipe comments.

Straight from the source (contact at Lagunitas):
In regards to Daytime-esque recipe be sure to have a healthy dose of wheat malt and wheat adjuncts either flaked or torrified (we are fans of the latter) but keep your S.G. in to the 1.040-1.050 range and add in some oat adjunct to the grist bill, again flaked will do but we are fans of the golden naked oats or you could use some standard oat malt for extra mouthfeel and residual sweetness, so no colored malt and focus on wheat and oats will get you to a good beverage and from there you can play with the quantities to your desire, increase adjuncts if you are going more "hazy IPA" or use 100% fermentable sugars like cane or dextrose if you are looking for something more "session".
 
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