Liberty Peach Berliner Weisse (Sour Mash)

[schmeek]

Here's my sour mash. I just completed the saccharification rest and added 11oz of acid malt. Gina let that sit while it cools and hit it with some CO2, lacto and wrap it up. Not sure if you can see the bubbles from the CO2, but I tried to get an action pic. Anyway, as far as the Campden goes I don't think we have chloramines in Orlando but definitely chlorine. I didn't add much and went ahead and boiled my strike water for 5 min for the hell of it.

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

This recipe looks great! I've never attempted a sour mash technique such as what is outline in the OP, but I like the idea of not having to use separate equipment devoted specifically to souring.

I have 2 questions:

After draining the mash tun, was it a pain to clean/sanitize especially with something that could be/smell kinda less than pleasing? I once accidentally left my spent grains in my tun for a few days, and the smell was gross!

Also, has anyone tried this with success with raspberries? And if so, how many pounds?

Thanks! Looking forward to brewing this!

 

[christyle]

This recipe looks great! I've never attempted a sour mash technique such as what is outline in the OP, but I like the idea of not having to use separate equipment devoted specifically to souring.

I have 2 questions:

After draining the mash tun, was it a pain to clean/sanitize especially with something that could be/smell kinda less than pleasing? I once accidentally left my spent grains in my tun for a few days, and the smell was gross!

Also, has anyone tried this with success with raspberries? And if so, how many pounds?

Thanks! Looking forward to brewing this!

I haven't had any issue cleaning or sanitizing, and it matters less in this case because you end up boiling anything out of it afterwards. I also clean my tun while the batch is boiling. If you leave your grain, that's basically what the sour mash is, except you're allowing oxygen exposure to the spent grain, which can give slightly more nasty smells I gather.

I have a batch going now I'm about to split onto mangos and raspberries, with flavoring added as well. I'll let you know how it goes, but I think it will be great. I've had great feedback from my peaches version.

Don't let the sour mash scare you, it's really easy and a great way to make a quick sour. I'm working on perfecting my technique and get a cleaner taste though, I fear the lack of C02 purge is causing some of it, and maybe slightly less time in the tun would help. I've been spiking mine with grain, and may try cultured bacteria next time.

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

Excellent, Christyle. Thanks for the great information! I, too, wonder about the CO2 purge. I don't keg (yet) and really don't know how to purge the dead space in the tun, but figure it can't be too hard to do.

I think this would be awesome to do on so many different kinds of fruit, and look forward to brewing this, soon!

 

[christyle]

Without a C02 tank/regulator, you can't really purge. When the means are available, I would just put the outlet near the surface of the mash water and turn it on for a bit, with the time depending on flowrate. Being heavier, it should settle to the bottom and displace the oxygen as it fills. Unsure if there are benefits to the bubbling technique others have mentioned, but I don't see how it could hurt if you have the means to keep it from coming back into the regulator.

 

[jmarine225]

Question on the sparge for this. How much water is needed and what temp do you sparge at?

 

[christyle]

For mine, I've used a large mash to provide more mass to hold higher temps longer so I think I mash with 5 gallons, sparge 2.5. I put 180 deg in my cooler, drain my mash tun, then dump in the sparge, at around 170 or so by then. It will depend on your system and capacities I think.

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

Planning to do this recipe tomorrow. Two more quick questions for those that have brewed it.

Regarding the peaches, do they need to be washed/sanitized in any way prior to adding to the secondary? Also, I plan to bottle and carbonate at 2.7 vols. Do I need to adjust in any way due to any additional sugars put off by the peaches? Thanks!

 

[christyle]

The 3 methods i've heard for adding fruit are:

1. Heat and hold at 170 or so for 10 minutes to pasteurize and then cool and add
2. Mix with vodka/alcohol of some sort to sanitize and add
3. Freeze and add them, freezing is said to break cell walls and make the sugars easier to get at

Others say to just add it no matter what because the alcohol level will prevent most bacteria growth, but I'd rather do the latter. I buy frozen peaches, and pull them out, slice them frozen and toss them in, then rack on top.

For bottling/kegging, I secondary and then transfer to a third vessel to clear the beer up before bottling. Are you planning to secondary with fruit in the keg? The amount of time you secondary should allow the yeast to eat up any sugars added by the fruit. If you secondary for a decent amount of time, the yeast should be clearing up the sugars. I know lots of people use gelatin for kegging, don't they?

 

[collguy82]

Great Thread. Just to add. If you have problems with the vomit smell, another way to help stop a lot of the enterobacter bacteria(which causes the bad smell) is to drop the PH at the beginning of the sour mash to 4.4-4.5. The lower PH will be enough to inhibit a lot of the enterobacter, but will allow the Lacto to do what it needs to do. You can lower the PH by adding lactic acid.

 

[christyle]

I've been considering acid malt as well, what are your thoughts? Will that help with the PH, and if so, will it affect the flavor profile much? I'm not sure how much you would need, I've never used it.

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

I was planning to go the acid malt route, myself. I saw this technique and like what I've read. I've never used acid malt, however. Does it need to be crushed in the following process?:

http://anarchylane.com/blog/?p=1442

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

Christyle - thanks for the great tips on adding fruit! I was leaning towards freezing then thawing to break down cell walls. Thanks again!!

 

[christyle]

Christyle - thanks for the great tips on adding fruit! I was leaning towards freezing then thawing to break down cell walls. Thanks again!!

No problem! Good luck

 

[CadillacAndy]

I agree with dropping the pH with acid malt or lactic acid. Very good technique that I've done as well.

For fruit - if I get it fresh I freeze and thaw it and add it to secondary. I usually rinse it first and then cut them in to 4-6 chunks and toss in to a freezer bag and freeze til I'm ready to use.

Glad to hear everyone is digging the recipe and people are brewing it. Cheers and enjoy!

 

[christyle]

Transferred my second batch onto raspberries and mangos as well as flavorings for each. I used extract for the peach, these were brewcraft flavorings I grabbed at the LHBS, calling for 4oz per 5 gallons, so I used 2oz. Pretty excited for both of them. They had some frozen mexican mango puree that I decided to grab instead of the diced, but I could only find 2lbs, so the third was diced mangos. All fruits added were frozen, and put in frozen.

I made a few little mistakes on this one, so we'll see how it goes. I forgot to reserve some grain to spike the mash, so I used the crumbs that were left and some whole oats (like, oatmeal oats) because I figured it was as close as I had. Surprisingly, the flavor profile is stronger, and a little cleaner I think.

Looking forward to trying again with the acid malt technique, as I don't have C02 for purging.

 

[ThreeStrandsBrewing]

Wow - that looks great! My brew day got pushed back to tonight because I foolishly thought I had enough propane in my tank, and failed to fill my backup tank as well! Doh!

 

[christyle]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it, my peach is drinking great.

Also as an fyi, I pitched one pack of us-05 and got down to 1.009 in like 5 days. I was worried because I didn't grab 2 packs.

 

[Wolfbayne]

Following for my next brew. Great base recipe!

 

[CorporateHippie]

I have had a vomit smell batch before but pitching some Brett B and letting it roll for a few months was awesome. Brett ate those stinkers and turned them into tropical fruit. I also added oak chips soaked in some white wine. It is still aging but the vomit smell is now gone. I think I will sample it again soon and blend with fruit (whatever fruit is prominent in the aroma/taste). Leaning toward guava right now.

 

[r4brewery]

This may have already been posted in this fantastic post but how long is this type of sour taking to ferment. I am looking for something to supplement my Roselares that take 2-3 years. Thanks.

 

[r4brewery]

This may have already been posted in this fantastic post but how long is this type of spur taking to ferment. I am looking for something faster to supplement my Roselares that take 2-3 years

 

[christyle]

A berliner like this is soured in the mash, so your tart is developed up front, and can meld and mellow with some time, but they're pretty good after a month or two. Tasted some of mine from 2-3 months ago and it's fantastic. Not a strong sour, just a nice lactic tartness.

Tasted my Mango/Raspberry versions last night. I like the raspberry a lot more than the mango, but I think that's due to the cheap mexican mango puree I bought. I think i'll be looking to try to clear and bottle soon.

 

[r4brewery]

Awesome. Thanks for that! I will give that a shot in my brew schedule next week! Primary and secondary with this recipe? Did you add fruit in primary or sec? Thanks so much, this has been a really helpful thread.

 

[christyle]

3 day sour mash, sparge and boil as normal, although less of a boil normally (30-45 min). Primary for about a week or so, or until it gets down near 1.01, then rack on top of fruit for as long as you'd like (normally 1-2 weeks for me).

 

[schmeek]

I went ahead and kegged most of this without any fruit. I'm very pleased with the results! A bit of barnyard funk on the nose, nice tartness right up front that lingers for just a bit. Decent body as mine finished around 10 points. Had a bit of a sluggish fermentation with wyeast German ale. Took off quickly but didn't finish til about 12 days later. With an OG of 1.043, I'm assuming the low pH made it pretty rough on the yeast.
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the killer recipe and advice.
I put one gal on blackberries and another on raspberries, looking forward to see how that tastes.
When you guys add fruit, do you allow it to ferment out or do you stabilize the beer prior to adding fruit?

 

[kirkenka]

This recipe continues to be a great recipe to add fruit to. I have made the Peach version twice. This last last time, I split a larger batch and put one on lemon zest and the other on raspberries that were pured raspberries. The lemon version recently took a 3rd place in a club only competition and the raspberry took first in the Ohio State Fair competition. Thanks again for the great recipe.

 

[christyle]

My raspberry version is still carbing, but I'm pretty sure it's going to surpass my peach's popularity. It's a great mix. I'm ripping through this one, and my gf loves it, so I'll need to be making this one pretty often. Going to try the acid malt version next go around.

 

[barhoc11]

How long should I mash this recipe at 152F before I take it down to 110 - 120F for the souring?

 

[christyle]

I've always done an hour and then let it cool to around 130 before spiking with grain.

My raspberry version is a definite favorite. Need to make this again soon, and now I have C02 to purge with, so i'll be giving that a try as well.